haha chill out dude! Never really called you a fanboi, maybe you were just joining the bandwagon, whatever.
And Noone?...Never?....Ever? How was AMD's 90nm SOI process compared to intel's 90nm bulk process?
Better, but WAY LATER. When their 90nm bulk shipped in volume, Intel was at volume on 65nm.
At the exact same point in time, Intel's process technology has never been matched. Ever.
haha chill out dude! Never really called you a fanboi, maybe you were just joining the bandwagon, whatever.
And Noone?...Never?....Ever? How was AMD's 90nm SOI process compared to intel's 90nm bulk process?
Ha! the old Amd fanboi myth that Amd's 90nm SOI was superior to Intel's 90nm. . Truth be told Intel's 90nm transistor characteristics (Ion, Ioff, Idsat etc.) were superior to Amd's 90nm. What gives Intel's 90nm a bad rap was that Netburst was the arch that was primarily coupled with 90nm for desktop and servers, but if you remember there was also Pentium M which was based on Dothan arch and manufactured on Intel's 90nm process.
Ha! the old Amd fanboi myth that Amd's 90nm SOI was superior to Intel's 90nm. . Truth be told Intel's 90nm transistor characteristics (Ion, Ioff, Idsat etc.) were superior to Amd's 90nm. What gives Intel's 90nm a bad rap was that Netburst was the arch that was primarily coupled with 90nm for desktop and servers, but if you remember there was also Pentium M which was based on Dothan arch and manufactured on Intel's 90nm process.
Pretty good leakage characteristics though, no? And how about those 45nm SOI power characteristics. Now there's a good process!!
IBM has more cash than anyone save Intel, and they could not do it.
It's not about just money, it's about know-how, patents, and engineers.
When you factor in all of those together, no one is even close to Intel in terms of process technology. They aren't even in the same ballgame.
I am quite sure Intel puts their fab to good use and produce enough to make it worthwhile which is what this is all about.
AMD doesn't sell and therefor doesn't produce enough chips making a move to a new process just idiotic.
It's not about "I know more than you [Company]" it's the financial bit which dictates when a process jump occurs. Which is the reason many still are using stuff such as 65nm, it's cause it's not even worth it now for them in any way or shape to move to 45nm - These companies likely will wait until someone else sells their old 45nm machinery secondhand before even considering switching from their old 65nm process.
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Originally Posted by accord99
IBM themselves have a large and highly advanced FAB and there's not a lot of customers knocking on their doors. Most likely, the tons of customers for GF only care about cost and performance is secondary.
If you read the news lately you know Global Foundries won STmicroelectronics and ARM(very, very big win) and yes AMD is still hanging in there wut. Now Chartered is baught which gives them another 150 customers.
If you read the news lately you know Global Foundries won STmicroelectronics and ARM(very, very big win) and yes AMD is still hanging in there wut. Now Chartered is baught which gives them another 150 customers.
ARM doesn't even build CPUs and ST only cares about the bulk 40nm process. Given the poor financial performance of Chartered, there's nothing to suggest any of the 150 customers will do more than help pay for the cost of the wafers and the electricity.
As before, the only company's products that will pay for the high performance process will be AMD.
It will be far more financially "defendable" for Global Foundries to build a new process before Intel. Intel uses their fabs internally, Global Foundries welcome anyone and will have cashcows throwing money at them.
Intel has tick-tock but what happens below 22nm when fabs will be super duper expensive to build?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
I am quite sure Intel puts their fab to good use and produce enough to make it worthwhile which is what this is all about.
AMD doesn't sell and therefor doesn't produce enough chips making a move to a new process just idiotic.
It's not about "I know more than you [Company]" it's the financial bit which dictates when a process jump occurs. Which is the reason many still are using stuff such as 65nm, it's cause it's not even worth it now for them in any way or shape to move to 45nm - These companies likely will wait until someone else sells their old 45nm machinery secondhand before even considering switching from their old 65nm process.
If you read the news lately you know Global Foundries won STmicroelectronics and ARM(very, very big win) and yes AMD is still hanging in there wut. Now Chartered is baught which gives them another 150 customers.
I am a bit confused here. One minute GF should build a new process before Intel but then you say it is idiotic for AMD to move on to a new process. The main, if not the only, reason GF would even attempt to get to a new process before Intel would be for AMD cpus.
I am a bit confused here. One minute GF should build a new process before Intel but then you say it is idiotic for AMD to move on to a new process. The main, if not the only, reason GF would even attempt to get to a new process before Intel would be for AMD cpus.
I disagree, GF's job is to be a FOUNDRY. They do still have strong ties with AMD and as any foundry goes they do work together to make sure they are getting good results. But in reality, GF's real job is to be a foundry to everyone(STMicro and the like). That includes anyone who needs chips to be fabbed. GF is simply trying to become another player in the foundry market and if they can establish themselves as a cutting/bleeding edge base for foundry technologies, then they can offer their clients(including AMD) the opportunity to edge out their competition which in turn allows GF to edge out all of theirs(UMC, TSMC, SMIC and even Intel).
I do not see AMD as a GF customer since they have roughly a 44% stake in GF to begin with.
How long will it stay 44% is the question. People keep talking about the billions of oil money that will be pumped in to GF, That could be a bad thing for AMD'S share in GF.
IBM has more cash than anyone save Intel, and they could not do it.
It's not about just money, it's about know-how, patents, and engineers.
When you factor in all of those together, no one is even close to Intel in terms of process technology. They aren't even in the same ballgame.
Yep!
But understand, the public only cares about value & that is where AMD competes real well with Intel. If AMD can use it's "know-how" to gain market share on Intel, then these investments are worthy. As the AM3 platform has legs and many people will see several upgrades over their systems life-time.
So, we all win.
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"The implications, if this actually works as advertised are insane." (HYDRA chip from Lucid)
1.4v @ stock on 45nm SOI! no thanks, i will stick with hkmg.
Well considering that 1.4v would probably fry your intel cpu, it's propably good that you stick with the lower voltages, and leave the heavy clocking to the big boys...
Also, it is interesting to note that it is GloFo's public intentions to continue competing with intel, not just TSMC and other foundries.
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just for sihts and giggles, could you mention the temperatures a nehalem and shanghai run at? or even an istanbul? temp's approaching 100c is not healthy for the silicon.
Last edited by flippin_waffles; 11-11-2009 at 08:27 AM.
ARM doesn't even build CPUs and ST only cares about the bulk 40nm process. Given the poor financial performance of Chartered, there's nothing to suggest any of the 150 customers will do more than help pay for the cost of the wafers and the electricity.
As before, the only company's products that will pay for the high performance process will be AMD.
But ARM will build their architecture around Global Foundries process, which in turn their license-partners will have to use Global Foundries so yes it is a very big win. ST only cares aboue 40nm Bulk? Today maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by easycheese
I am a bit confused here. One minute GF should build a new process before Intel but then you say it is idiotic for AMD to move on to a new process. The main, if not the only, reason GF would even attempt to get to a new process before Intel would be for AMD cpus.
Yeah I clearly said AMD (before Global Foundries) and no they want a new process before both Intel and TSMC(specifically) to win customers.
THEN it was idiotic of AMD to move onto a new process, not now when they don't have to care about the R&D and the costs of building a new fab then it makes sense to move to a new process ASAP even if they don't have the same cash flow as Intel, cause Global Foundries is doing that part now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by easycheese
I do not see AMD as a GF customer since they have roughly a 44% stake in GF to begin with.
AMD is a customer of Global Foundries even if they have shares in there. Then what you see is a totally different topic. AMD and Global Foundries have said on numberous occations they don't want to be identified as eachother because they are independant, different companies.
just for sihts and giggles, could you mention the temperatures a nehalem and shanghai run at? or even an istanbul? temp's approaching 100c is not healthy for the silicon.
Blunt flamebait is blunt... how about a temp for each core for amd cpus?
3.4Ghz Deneb device (C3 stepping),running @ 1.4V is consuming little over 100W (before VRM)in full load as measured by LostCircuits.The 45nm SOI from AMD is not directly comparable wrt Vcpu with intel's hk/mg process node. New 975BE model will fall within generic 140W TDP bracket with real power draw lower than the 125W,just as C2 965BE was when it launched. For a 3.6GHz quad core MPU with IMC and large L3 on die,this is a big achievement.
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Quick dictionary lesson:Bulldozer : n. 1.A multi-threaded performance-oriented x86 processor core contained in the “Zambezi” processor for client PCs and “Interlagos” and “Valencia” processors for servers. Included in the “Scorpius” desktop PC platform and “Maranello,” “Adelaide,” and “San Marino” server platforms. “Bulldozer” will be a completely new, high performance architecture for the mainstream server, desktop and notebook PC markets that employs a new approach to multithreaded compute performance for achieving advanced efficiency and throughput. “Bulldozer” is designed to give AMD an exceptional CPU option for linking with GPUs in highly scalable, single-chip Accelerated Processing Unit (APU) configurations. 2.A heavy, driver-operated machine for clearing and grading land, usually having continuous treads and a broad hydraulic blade in front 3. An overbearing person; a bully.
The main thing here from what I see, is that intel feels very threatened by GloFo's capability and probably should be. The potential was always there with fab36 and fab38, now with no constraints on capital expenditure, and many many customers driving demand on both super high performance and ultra low power, GloFo will likely become the one pushing the boundries in the near future.
Last edited by flippin_waffles; 11-11-2009 at 01:12 PM.
The main thing here from what I see, is that intel feels very threatened by GloFo's capability and probably should be. The potential was always there with fab36 and fab38, now with no constraints on capital expenditure, and many many customers driving demand on both super high performance and ultra low power, GloFo will likely become the one pushing the boundries in the near future.
Talk is cheap. Until we see GF even break even, this is pure speculation.
The main thing here from what I see, is that intel feels very threatened by GloFo's capability and probably should be. The potential was always there with fab36 and fab38, now with no constraints on capital expenditure, and many many customers driving demand on both super high performance and ultra low power, GloFo will likely become the one pushing the boundries in the near future.
There are very few customers that demand "super high performance", low power is far more important, especial with the ever growing demand for mobile and embedded chips.
. Truth be told Intel's 90nm transistor characteristics (Ion, Ioff, Idsat etc.) were superior to Amd's 90nm. What gives Intel's 90nm a bad rap was that Netburst was the arch that was primarily coupled with 90nm for desktop and servers, but if you remember there was also Pentium M which was based on Dothan arch and manufactured on Intel's 90nm process.
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