AMD Scorpius desktop platfrom and 32 nm Zambezi in 2011

**Sampsa** · 10-07-2009, 01:13 AM

Hi,

I got this interesting slide from AMD which shows their current roadmap for Desktop Platform 2009 - 2011.

Next year AMD is planning to bring Leo-platform with 45 nm six-core Thuban CPU and RD890+SB850 chipset for enthusiasts and Dorado platform with Athlon II and RS880P+SB810 for mainstream.

In 2011 AMD is planning to launch new Scorpius-platform with AM3r2 Socket and 32 nm Zambezi CPU with 4 and more cores. For mainstream users AMD is planning Lynx-platform with Llano APU (up to 4 cores + 1 GPU).

Source: Finnish hardware site Muropaketti.com

**TheBlueChanell** · 10-07-2009, 01:16 AM

Interesting. So is the Scorpius platform going to be a Phenom 2 derivative or Bulldozer? It seems to fall into place between the two.

**Calmatory** · 10-07-2009, 01:19 AM

R900 before "Scorpius", it seems. Aren't these platforms defined quite early, like Q1? That would mean that R900 should be ready by then and would go on-par with the current "Q3/Q4" rumours. Other than that, Lynx seems somewhat strange. Up to 4 CPU cores and one GPU core, in same package? That would mean that GF would manufacture at least some of ATI parts, even if only for the CPU. Wasn't the first GPU to be embedded in a CPU to be from HD3k series?

What exactly is the Llano APU? What's the purpose of APU?

**largon** · 10-07-2009, 01:30 AM

Barcelona (city), Deneb (star), Thuban (star), Zambezi (city)...
Uh-oh. Ominous.

And I wonder if AM3 rev2 will be a PGA or LGA...
And why they didn't go LGA with AM2.
*shrug*

But I hereby demand they go 192bit memory on Bulldozer - I want my 6 DIMM slots on desktop boards.

Originally Posted by Calmatory

What exactly is the Llano APU? What's the purpose of APU?

APU, as in "accelerated processing unit". GPU-on-CPU. Few Bulldozer cores with a low end GPU on-die.

**AKM** · 10-07-2009, 01:32 AM

Zambezi=river actually

**NapalmV5** · 10-07-2009, 01:53 AM

spirit actually.. this spirit brings them water to grow crops and fish to eat..

i guess amds waiting on a big harvest..

**VoodooProphetII** · 10-07-2009, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by AKM

Zambezi=river actually

Yup a river, but you also get the beer....that national beer of Zimbabwe.

**Calmatory** · 10-07-2009, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by largon

APU, as in "accelerated processing unit". GPU-on-CPU. Few Bulldozer cores with a low end GPU on-die.

Now that gets strange. How does the CPU utilize the APU? If there's a sequence of certain instructions, they are executed by APU, just like floating point operations are executed by FPU? If so, great. Now we just need compiler support.

**xlink** · 10-07-2009, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Calmatory

Now that gets strange. How does the CPU utilize the APU? If there's a sequence of certain instructions, they are executed by APU, just like floating point operations are executed by FPU? If so, great. Now we just need compiler support.

this will likely end up similarly to how x86 CPUs handled x87 co processors.

**lsdpigeon** · 10-07-2009, 02:59 AM

I hope they keep the prices reasonable like they always do.

**Mats** · 10-07-2009, 03:03 AM

The AM3r2 must be related to AM3, otherwise they'd get a different name. Should have been AM4 IMO, less confusion.

Either way, it doesn't sound like Bulldozer to me. I thought it would need a completely new socket?

**Abu Assar** · 10-07-2009, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by largon

Barcelona (city), Deneb (star), Thuban (star), Zambezi (city)...
Uh-oh. Ominous.

actualy it is Agena not barcelona if you're talking about desktop , and it is also declared as Stars in earlier AMD slides

on server side we got barcelona , shanghai, istanbul , etc ...

**N19h7m4r3** · 10-07-2009, 03:20 AM

Am3r2 is probably like AM2+.

So hopefully it'll work in AM3 also.

**trueblue** · 10-07-2009, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mats

The AM3r2 must be related to AM3, otherwise they'd get a different name. Should have been AM4 IMO, less confusion.

Either way, it doesn't sound like Bulldozer to me. I thought it would need a completely new socket?

Someone over at AMDZone has speculated that it is AM3+, i.e. Zambezi would work in existing AM3 sockets and in AM3+ sockets, but there would be perhaps be a minor loss of performance in regular AM3. Regular AM3 processors would not work in AM3+, ie downward compatibility but not upward compatible. Of course Zambezi would not work in AM2+ either.

The AM3 socket has 940 pins, but I think the AM3 cpus only use 939 pins. Maybe the extra pin is reserved for something. There are some really good threads on AMDZone about the technical justifications for and against this compatibility.

**Smartidiot89** · 10-07-2009, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by Mats

The AM3r2 must be related to AM3, otherwise they'd get a different name. Should have been AM4 IMO, less confusion.

Either way, it doesn't sound like Bulldozer to me. I thought it would need a completely new socket?

AM2+ was also named AM2r2 internallt so my guess is that it's AM3.

Zambezi will be based on the Bulldozer architecture, and most likely only support DDR3, so it will be socket compatible with AM3 and AM3+. Wonder when AMD will finally change socket?

**zalbard** · 10-07-2009, 03:42 AM

I personally like the easy upgrade path. Why change socket if it gives no benefit?

**largon** · 10-07-2009, 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by Calmatory

Now that gets strange. How does the CPU utilize the APU? If there's a sequence of certain instructions, they are executed by APU, just like floating point operations are executed by FPU? If so, great. Now we just need compiler support.

Eh, it's not any stranger than Intel Clarkdale, CPU with an integrated GPU.

Originally Posted by AKM

Zambezi=river actually

There's a also a city by that name.

Originally Posted by Abu Assar

actualy it is Agena not barcelona if you're talking about desktop , and it is also declared as Stars in earlier AMD slides

Oh, completely forgot about that, you're right.

**Calmatory** · 10-07-2009, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by largon

Eh, it's not any stranger than Intel Clarkdale,

Of course not, I am more interested in how exactly does the APU utilize the ISA. For example, does the OS see it as a GPU? Does it need drivers? Could it be possible to run GPU physics on it? GPGPU? What kind of API support?

**Aerwidh** · 10-07-2009, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Calmatory

Of course not, I am more interested in how exactly does the APU utilize the ISA. For example, does the OS see it as a GPU? Does it need drivers? Could it be possible to run GPU physics on it? GPGPU? What kind of API support?

That is a very interesting question, imo.

**Particle** · 10-07-2009, 05:18 AM

That would certainly be my guess--that the APU will show up as a regular GPU to the system. Historically, as new technologies have been introduced to the PC platform, it very rarely took the form of an abrupt change if it was to be successful. Some things can't be done in that way but are major value adders, such as sound cards. Either you've got sound or you don't. Other technologies like 64-bit, SATA, and such are packed full of compatibility modes and such. Looking at that history, it won't surprise me if the APU shows up as a GPU and the term APU just becomes AMD marketingese for "GPU on CPU".

**saaya** · 10-07-2009, 06:28 AM

2011 and new socket and cgpu, if THIS isnt bulldozer then my guess is bulldozer is actually dead

thuban is 6 cores, and they mention above 4cores for zambezi, so that sounds a lot like up to 8 cores to me...
which is what bulldozer was supposed to be, native octa core...

apu, you guys are reading too much into it i think...

i highly doubt that itll be integrated into the cpu silicon, and even if thats the case, itll be, guess what, a gpu and itll be recongized as such... this is the same intel is doing with 1156 igp, the same thing...

the sad thing is... bulldozer 8 cores were supposed to be out... earlier this year...
and now something that looks like a bulldozer/shanghai crossing is scheduled for 2011... so looking at amds cpu track record itll arrive in 2012+
and until then its going to be the same architecture... from now until at least 2011... so 2-3 years without anything new? ouch :S

**informal** · 10-07-2009, 06:37 AM

Basically ,on desktop we will have:
2010-QC Athlon IIs for mainstream(renamed Phenom IIs?) and a new desktop hex core high end 45nm MPU based on Lisbon design(modified Istanbul),presumably at higher clocks/lower TDP
2011-a mix of new design on the high end (Zambezi-Bulldozer for desktop in AM3+ socket,backward compatible) and a 10h design(Shanghai QC) done @ 32nm and integrated along side the new GPU part on the same die. The last part about Llano being a 10h derivative done @ 32nm was already confirmed by design team member at AMD @ work blog,so it's official. This practically means AMD will not risk to introduce the BD design first on the brand new node,but instead they will "practice" the node on the Shanghai shrink and then move on the brand new design.

**saaya** · 10-07-2009, 06:53 AM

so this is still not bulldozer?
then bulldozer IS dead... what a shame... if theyd at least have something else to refresh the platforms, but they dont...

so they will continue to just stuff more cores down our throats until 32nm, where they will finally introduce a new architecture?
or at least thats what they plan NOW... not really exciting is it? :/

and having igp on the cpu package... i still dont get it, they could have done that years ago...
as soon as they introduced the athlon 64 and hyper transport to the desktop, it was possible to move the igp chipset onto the cpu or do a cpu/cpu mcm...
they sat on their hands for 8 years now... intel had to do both first for them to really work on this seriously...