OCCT 3.1.0 shows HD4870/4890 design flaw - they can't handle the new GPU test !

[truehighroller]

His might be like mine where that chip is weak on one part of it and it is causing his flakyness. I have never had a chip piece come off with my heatsink like that, ever, it had to have been a faulty chip from the get go and this issue had haunted me forever so... I will establish if my system is more stabe now that, that card is out of the equation tonight when I get home and get to actually play some with the one that is left in it right now that I didn't want to touch until I get the other one back from RMA.

[bluedevil]

must be very specific. when you were running the game that did this to you were you monitoring the gpu current pull at the time? what did it peak at?

none ever reads my posts it seems ...oh well
my Gainward 4870 reference goes to 72A in crysis at 1600x1200 no aa no af catalyst driver defaults 9.5 after about 5 minutes using the carrier level at the end of the game
and it crashes after 30 mins -1 hour ...seems to be very random maybe it spikes to 83 A during certain shader intensive scenes causing it to crash ... no artifacts no texture bugs just restarts the pc
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2949/52748904.jpg
don't use the riva osd ingame because you will get false data .let riva monitor your card in the background if you want to see your true Amps.
i don't know what to use to see the exact amps at the time of the crash because when it happens my pc restarts and i guess riva tunner does not have time to record the last value

[Eastcoasthandle]

none ever reads my posts it seems ...oh well
my Gainward 4870 reference goes to 72A in crysis at 1600x1200 no aa no af catalyst driver defaults 9.5 after about 5 minutes using the carrier level at the end of the game
and it crashes after 30 mins -1 hour ...seems to be very random maybe it spikes to 83 A during certain shader intensive scenes causing it to crash ... no artifacts no texture bugs just restarts the pc
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2949/52748904.jpg
don't use the riva osd ingame because you will get false data .let riva monitor your card in the background if you want to see your true Amps.
i don't know what to use to see the exact amps at the time of the crash because when it happens my pc restarts and i guess riva tunner does not have time to record the last value

Actually I did read your posts however you are not willing/able to open up your video card because you don't have thermal paste. Because you haven't gone in depth you really don't know what the problem is at this time.

[BababooeyHTJ]

none ever reads my posts it seems ...oh well
my Gainward 4870 reference goes to 72A in crysis at 1600x1200 no aa no af catalyst driver defaults 9.5 after about 5 minutes using the carrier level at the end of the game
and it crashes after 30 mins -1 hour ...seems to be very random maybe it spikes to 83 A during certain shader intensive scenes causing it to crash ... no artifacts no texture bugs just restarts the pc
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2949/52748904.jpg
don't use the riva osd ingame because you will get false data .let riva monitor your card in the background if you want to see your true Amps.
i don't know what to use to see the exact amps at the time of the crash because when it happens my pc restarts and i guess riva tunner does not have time to record the last value

You don't see anything wrong with your GPU drawing 25a at desktop? Your card is bad, it happens with ATI and Nvidia. I've had 1 bad GTX260 and a 280 fail on me, not to mention all of the other hardware that has failed on me.

[fornowagain]

none ever reads my posts it seems ...oh well
my Gainward 4870 reference goes to 72A in crysis at 1600x1200 no aa no af catalyst driver defaults 9.5 after about 5 minutes using the carrier level at the end of the game
and it crashes after 30 mins -1 hour ...seems to be very random maybe it spikes to 83 A during certain shader intensive scenes causing it to crash ... no artifacts no texture bugs just restarts the pc
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2949/52748904.jpg
don't use the riva osd ingame because you will get false data .let riva monitor your card in the background if you want to see your true Amps.
i don't know what to use to see the exact amps at the time of the crash because when it happens my pc restarts and i guess riva tunner does not have time to record the last value

Somethings not right there, I get around 50A/3d (Crysis) 9.5A/2d on an X2@850/1000

[STEvil]

A little more explanation would be appreciated.

What is being done here would be akin to a WOT burnout or drag race, not sitting still while holding the throttle all the way open.

Either way if what I buy has not been advertised as being incapable of performing at full functionality under certain circumstances and it does not perform at full functionality under certain circumstances then it has been falsely advertised.

[Final8ty]

What is being done here would be akin to a WOT burnout or drag race, not sitting still while holding the throttle all the way open.

Either way if what I buy has not been advertised as being incapable of performing at full functionality under certain circumstances and it does not perform at full functionality under certain circumstances then it has been falsely advertised.

Its more like drag race yes & we know what can happen to the engines on them.
Peak performance does not have a longevity rating most of the time.

[Vienna]

<snip>

Sounds like your card is faulty, RMA it. This "defect", if you can call it that, only appears in a certain set of situations, which from reading your posts, have little to do with it.

The VRM's heating way up is a known issue with non refrence coolers, check out old water cooling posts on the matter.

I'll say it once more, I highly doubt its the issue that this thread is based thats causing your crashes. You have a faulty card, instead of arguing, RMA it. Hell, it might not even be the video card, it may be something else in your system, like the memory(ram).

All I'm trying to say is, don't jump to conclusions

[Solus Corvus]

What is being done here would be akin to a WOT burnout or drag race, not sitting still while holding the throttle all the way open.

Either way if what I buy has not been advertised as being incapable of performing at full functionality under certain circumstances and it does not perform at full functionality under certain circumstances then it has been falsely advertised.

Drag racing isn't covered in most factory warranties. If you break something while racing your car don't expect them to cover it.

Car analogies are inaccurate at best. In fact any analogy is unneeded, the issue can be described in simple terms that anyone can understand: It is a case of a series of video cards that won't run a certain program. It's that simple. There is no need to turn it into a hypothetical situation in an unrelated field just to describe it. The worst part is that the people making the analogies ( ie. probably geeks ) are describing a problem ( a hardware/software issue) that their peers ( other geeks ) can understand by relating it to something that neither of them understand very well ( cars ) - which is obvious by looking at the absolutely horrible car analogies used regularly.

[ahmad]

What is being done here would be akin to a WOT burnout or drag race, not sitting still while holding the throttle all the way open.

Either way if what I buy has not been advertised as being incapable of performing at full functionality under certain circumstances and it does not perform at full functionality under certain circumstances then it has been falsely advertised.

I'll give you an analogy: Take your car, turn on the AC, the heat, the rear defogger (essential), your wipers at full speed (don't forget to spray), your interior lights, your fog lights, headlights, rear lights reverse lights, signal lights, hazard lights, roll up/down the windows, lock and unlock your doors (if not power, you may need assistance), your radio at full blast, while at the same time pushing the engine to maximum revs (pedal to the metal), while braking constantly, and turning the steering wheel from left to right continuously. Oh and I forgot to mention, to stress the bearings and transmission, you have to be going at the car's top speed to do this.

First of all, if you attempt this you will look like an idiot. Second, I can almost guarantee you something is going to either break or blowup if you do actually manage to pull this off. And third, some of these things are impossible to do at the same time, like turning on AC and heater at the same time (so that it blows both cold and hot air in all areas of the vehicle).

Do car manufacturers stress test their vehicles like this? If they did such a car company would have gone under a long time ago...

If your car does not function at "maximum capacity", does that make it's design flawed? Or just the user subjecting the car to abnormal and unusual tests?

Next time you are buying a car, I want to see you testing it like this. If you don't I am going to call you a hypocrite.

Get the word "impossible load under normal circumstances" through your heads people. If your video card fails in any games or normal apps (like your headlights don't work), take it back and get it replaced. Otherwise, life goes on.

ATI made the mistake of letting you turn your AC and heat at the same time. Nvidia doesn't let you do that. Which is why nvidia cards cannot be stressed like ATI cards.

[eleeter]

I'll give you an analogy...

Nicely put.

[Eastcoasthandle]

I'll give you an analogy: Take your car, turn on the AC, the heat, the rear defogger (essential), your wipers at full speed (don't forget to spray), your interior lights, your fog lights, headlights, rear lights reverse lights, signal lights, hazard lights, roll up/down the windows, lock and unlock your doors (if not power, you may need assistance), your radio at full blast, while at the same time pushing the engine to maximum revs (pedal to the metal), while braking constantly, and turning the steering wheel from left to right continuously. Oh and I forgot to mention, to stress the bearings and transmission, you have to be going at the car's top speed to do this.

First of all, if you attempt this you will look like an idiot. Second, I can almost guarantee you something is going to either break or blowup if you do actually manage to pull this off. And third, some of these things are impossible to do at the same time, like turning on AC and heater at the same time (so that it blows both cold and hot air in all areas of the vehicle).

Do car manufacturers stress test their vehicles like this? If they did such a car company would have gone under a long time ago...

If your car does not function at "maximum capacity", does that make it's design flawed? Or just the user subjecting the car to abnormal and unusual tests?

Next time you are buying I car, I want to see you testing it like this. If you don't I am going to call you a hypocrite.

Get the word "impossible load under normal circumstances" through your heads people. If your video card fails in any games or normal apps (like your headlights don't work), take it back and get it replaced. Otherwise, life goes on.

ATI made the mistake of letting you turn your AC and heat at the same time. Nvidia doesn't let you do that. Which is why nvidia cards cannot be stressed like ATI cards.

That's well put right there

[STEvil]

Its more like drag race yes & we know what can happen to the engines on them.
Peak performance does not have a longevity rating most of the time.

yup.. but have you ever seen a GPU with a longevity rating at all or even disclaimers that it cannot run at full peak performance at certain settings? I've not seen it for CPU's nor GPU's... nor PSU's either (well, probably a few..)! For a PSU you can be a bit more lenient.. darn wattage ratings :/

Drag racing isn't covered in most factory warranties. If you break something while racing your car don't expect them to cover it.

Car analogies are inaccurate at best. In fact any analogy is unneeded, the issue can be described in simple terms that anyone can understand: It is a case of a series of video cards that won't run a certain program. It's that simple. There is no need to turn it into a hypothetical situation in an unrelated field just to describe it. The worst part is that the people making the analogies ( ie. probably geeks ) are describing a problem ( a hardware/software issue) that their peers ( other geeks ) can understand by relating it to something that neither of them understand very well ( cars ) - which is obvious by looking at the absolutely horrible car analogies used regularly.

agree

I'll give you an analogy: Take your car, turn on the AC, the heat, the rear defogger (essential), your wipers at full speed (don't forget to spray), your interior lights, your fog lights, headlights, rear lights reverse lights, signal lights, hazard lights, roll up/down the windows, lock and unlock your doors (if not power, you may need assistance), your radio at full blast, while at the same time pushing the engine to maximum revs (pedal to the metal), while braking constantly, and turning the steering wheel from left to right continuously. Oh and I forgot to mention, to stress the bearings and transmission, you have to be going at the car's top speed to do this.

First of all, if you attempt this you will look like an idiot. Second, I can almost guarantee you something is going to either break or blowup if you do actually manage to pull this off. And third, some of these things are impossible to do at the same time, like turning on AC and heater at the same time (so that it blows both cold and hot air in all areas of the vehicle).

Do car manufacturers stress test their vehicles like this? If they did such a car company would have gone under a long time ago...

If your car does not function at "maximum capacity", does that make it's design flawed? Or just the user subjecting the car to abnormal and unusual tests?

Next time you are buying I car, I want to see you testing it like this. If you don't I am going to call you a hypocrite.

Get the word "impossible load under normal circumstances" through your heads people. If your video card fails in any games or normal apps (like your headlights don't work), take it back and get it replaced. Otherwise, life goes on.

ATI made the mistake of letting you turn your AC and heat at the same time. Nvidia doesn't let you do that. Which is why nvidia cards cannot be stressed like ATI cards.

I'd agree with you if we were talking about average consumer cars which obviously cannot perform to full performance specifications for extended periods and 99% of the time will not be required to do so unless purchased for that exact purpose (in which case it was custom built..).

However we're talking GPU's which are produced for the enthusiast/high consumer market (has anyone tested lower-end GPU's?) where the video card is advertised to run at a specific speed (gpu clock/mem clock) at a specific voltage (gpu/mem/etc) while performing its functions. Should a game, games, or GPGPU program in the future use the GPU to the fullest (or near) extent then is it the programmers fault for making use of the hardware performance he/she was given (ie: deliberately making it unstable or having a better sample of the hardware than lots of others due to multiple PCB designs) or is it the fault of the manufacturer for not telling the vendors that they have limits and/or for not publicizing the limits?

To me its quite simple and its why you see AMD/ATi have acknowledged the issue.

[mars]

To me its quite simple and its why you see AMD/ATi have acknowledged the issue.

AMD and ATi have acknowledged the issue because of ....
"To justify themselves, AMD insist on the fact that that no practical case will charge the GPU as much. You have to want it to be able to do it, and use a very specific code." -snipped from OP's reply

sounds pretty close to your rationalization regarding the average consumer cars..

honestly find a game or gpgpu proggy that can actually cause this issue, then maybe there would be a rightful discussion. No, OCCT does not count.

[warmage]

i hope HIS HD 4890 is out of this design flaw >.< , else i got screwed !

why are ppl still talking about the 3d scene when AMD already acknowledged the design flaw !

will they do an upgrade option to return the card and get the new one ?

[Tetedeiench]

Okay, let's stop the ridiculous car analogies. I made one myself, i'm ashamed i did

Yes, you have to use specific code (err, if by specific code they mean "use alot of alpha blending and DX9 shaders", well, so be it) for it to trigger, but it can be triggered. That's the important part. Wether it be rare, or unlikely, or not corresponding to YOUR personal usage of your card, it doesn't matter : it can be triggered.

However, remember that this protection is a last resort protection. You should NOT be able to trigger it in normal cunditions, and especially not at stock speed, with regular API calls. In a normal protection, the GPU should have reduced its frequencies, not forced you to reboot. Thus, the obvious design flaw.

Next, once again, i'd say for the 10th time, the "normal application" part. Who did say that 3D cards were limited to gaming ?

I mean, i am presented with a 3d API to draw 3d, 3d capable hardware compatible with that API... yet, everybody says its limited to games ?

Come on guys, you may have already ran the demos from Farbrausch (remember the 64k demo fr08_Final ?). That's not a game. That kicked ass. You may have enjoyed it. Nvidia and AMD themselves are making demos just as my donut, to demonstrate the use of a particular function : sometimes there's alot of geometry, sometimes there isn't. Just download DX9 SDK, or Nvidia Cg SDK, and you've got your small applications that are completly valid, made by the cards manufacturer, they are not game, yet i believe they are perfectly valid applications, because they are made by Nvidia, Microsoft, AMD themselves. Just look for demos on google (Nvidia demos, AMD demos, etc). You'll see my point. Are those demos "unvalid apps" because you cannot kill aliens ?

So this point is out : you can't play the GPU:3D furry scene as you wish, but that doesn't mean it is not a valid application. 3d = 3d scene, whatever this scene is. It is true that for end users, 3d=games, because they mostly remember their last Fallout3 or Crysis game session.

It is a marketing decision, IMHO, made by Nvidia and AMD, to cut costs, to build cards that work on the assumption that a 3d scene will have alot of geometry, and thus alot of idling on the GPU side. That does not make applications such as OCCT unvalid because they do not have alot of geometry, yet make use of advance functions. The decision which lead to this kind of situation is unvalid. I'm following closely to API specifications, made by microsoft, and those companies signed and agreed to follow them. Seems they failed to do so. Is it my fault ?

So please, let's stop this completly sterile debate. Yes, you do not play OCCT often. Yes, you will never encounter the great furry god of destiny in your latest game that will cause your favorite AMD4870 card to crash. Yes, it is very unlikely to crash in any game in the future.

And remember, i'm not saying "ditch all your HD4870s". I'm saying "they have a design flaw that can impair their functioning in some cases". Those cases were enumerated iby professionnal websites, which was what i wanted from the beginning, much better than i did. And that's why i didn't make any news about it on OCCT's website : that's not MY job. It's theirs.

Anyway, this debate has been raging on for 27 pages now, trying to make OCCT look like either a virus, or an unvalid application that does not matter. The fact that one app can trigger the thing, no matter what the application is, is the thing that is important.

AMD acknowledged the flaw, they're taking steps to correct it, and even if they're minimizing it a bit, the very fact that the steps they are thinking of taking go as far as designing a new reference board and changing the way their new GPUs will handle such cases indicates that this matter is not something that does not matter and can be ditched easily "because it's not a game". They are taking it seriously. Why not us also ? I am very happy with the way they are taking the matter It is a great way of reacting to the problem, i'd say.

Here, AMD's actions are more meaningful than their sayings. The very facts their steps may be so huge towards solving this matter indicates it is important.

[Cyber-Mav]

Tetedeiench i have a question for you, can you make occt generate even more load on the gpu than it currently does? or has occt reached the stage where it already makes a gpu work to its theoretical maximum?

[Tetedeiench]

Tetedeiench i have a question for you, can you make occt generate even more load on the gpu than it currently does? or has occt reached the stage where it already makes a gpu work to its theoretical maximum?

You can always make something more optimized, so i'd say yes, it is always possible to find a more optimized combination.

I'm working on making the GPU test more optimized for Nvidia cards at the moment, and i do think that'll have to do with a new algorithm, a new test. That's going to take some time though, and when i say some time, that mean months, at least. Weeks at best, but i doubt it.

I still don't know wether it is possible to come up with something that's pushing the Nvidia cards more. Anyway, work in progress

[truehighroller]

My card that is left in my system still is locking up even at shader level 0. I need to look at that post about what other little miscelanious chips to cool, once I get my RMAED one back that is. Apparently there are a couple of small miscelanious chips that need to be cooled as well and I am thinking I am not cooling them at all so, that is probably my issue here. Good thing is that if it wasn't for this post I would have never figured this out and yes, I want one of these new designed GPUs as an offering for this mistake on their part.

[Cyber-Mav]

You can always make something more optimized, so i'd say yes, it is always possible to find a more optimized combination.

I'm working on making the GPU test more optimized for Nvidia cards at the moment, and i do think that'll have to do with a new algorithm, a new test. That's going to take some time though, and when i say some time, that mean months, at least. Weeks at best, but i doubt it.

I still don't know wether it is possible to come up with something that's pushing the Nvidia cards more. Anyway, work in progress

let me know if/when you have the new test ready, i cant wait to hammer my card till it busts

[Blazing fire]

With furmark, OGL3, my VDDC current goes to 84A and stays there. Yet I don't experience any lockups or black screen thing. This flatly contradicts what OCCT programmer said.

They basically crash because they can't handle the load. Early testing shows the VRM cannot supply enough power to the card. That's the only thing i could dig until now, with limited testing means. They seem limited to 82/83A. Please help us dig more !

Look at this GPU-Z log file. Sorry for the high temps. I turned off the fans to heat this up, yet it did not crash. My CPU temps are 77/72C. You get an idea how hot the water is

        Date        , GPU Core Clock [MHz] , GPU Memory Clock [MHz] , GPU Temperature [°C] , GPU Load [%] , GPU Temp.(DISPIO) [°C] , GPU Temp.(MEMIO) [°C] , GPU Temp.(SHADERCORE) [°C] , VDDC Current [A] , VDDC Slave #1 Temperature [°C] , VDDC Slave #2 Temperature [°C] , VDDC Slave #3 Temperature [°C] , VDDC [V] ,

2009-06-09 09:43:57 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         98   ,                 51.5   ,                58.0   ,                     52.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:43:58 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               51.0   ,         98   ,                 51.5   ,                57.5   ,                     52.5   ,           83.3   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         76.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:43:59 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                57.0   ,                     53.0   ,           83.3   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:00 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               51.0   ,         99   ,                 51.5   ,                58.5   ,                     52.0   ,           83.3   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:01 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               51.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                58.0   ,                     52.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:02 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                58.0   ,                     52.5   ,           83.3   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:03 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                58.0   ,                     53.0   ,           83.3   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:04 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               51.0   ,         99   ,                 51.5   ,                58.5   ,                     52.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:05 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               51.0   ,         99   ,                 51.5   ,                57.5   ,                     52.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:06 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                58.0   ,                     53.0   ,           83.3   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:07 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               51.0   ,         99   ,                 51.5   ,                58.0   ,                     53.0   ,           83.3   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:08 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 53.0   ,                58.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:09 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:10 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               51.0   ,         99   ,                 51.5   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:11 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                58.5   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:12 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               53.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:13 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                58.5   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:14 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:15 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                58.5   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:16 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                58.5   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         77.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:17 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                59.0   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:18 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:19 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:20 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:21 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                59.0   ,                     54.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:22 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 51.5   ,                58.5   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:23 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:24 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                59.0   ,                     52.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:25 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                58.5   ,                     52.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:26 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         98   ,                 52.5   ,                58.0   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:27 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         98   ,                 52.5   ,                59.0   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:28 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.0   ,                59.5   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:29 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                59.5   ,                     52.5   ,           82.6   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:30 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                59.5   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:31 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 53.0   ,                59.0   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:32 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               51.0   ,         99   ,                 53.0   ,                59.5   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:33 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         99   ,                 52.5   ,                59.5   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:34 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               53.0   ,         98   ,                 52.5   ,                59.0   ,                     53.0   ,           81.3   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:35 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         98   ,                 52.0   ,                59.5   ,                     53.5   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:36 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         98   ,                 52.5   ,                59.5   ,                     53.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

2009-06-09 09:44:37 ,              840.0   ,               1100.0   ,               52.0   ,         98   ,                 52.0   ,                59.5   ,                     54.0   ,           84.0   ,                         73.0   ,                         74.0   ,                         78.0   , 1.2625   ,

[skycrane]

ummm... did you also read where it only works with OCCT ???

did you also read that OCCT stresses the gpu more than furmark

did you also read that its only for refrence designed 4870, 4890

did you also read that ATI knows about the problem, and has CONFRIMED that there is a problem with the cards that only have 3 vrms

[SamHughe]

I don't understand the hostility. Flaw is a flaw whether it appears in extreme conditions or during everyday desktop usage. It is always better not to have any flaws no matter how rare it occurs. I personally thank the programmer who wrote OCCT for pointing out this problem.

I'd love to provide more data by testing out my 4890s but I can't run the program on Win7-64. Is there a solution for that?

[Blazing fire]

ummm... did you also read where it only works with OCCT ???

did you also read that OCCT stresses the gpu more than furmark

did you also read that its only for refrence designed 4870, 4890

did you also read that ATI knows about the problem, and has CONFRIMED that there is a problem with the cards that only have 3 vrms

Yes, but occt causes it the VDDCs to draw 82-83A. This is why it crashes, or at least that's how I interpret the original post.

Then that would be a core problem, not a power design problem.

it is *NOT* related to Temperature, but to a weakness in the Power Supply stages of the Reference design HD4870/4890 cards from AMD. We don't know yet if it is the VRM themselves, or the OCP that triggers.

Yes, I am using a referenced designed 4870

No, till now.

I don't understand the hostility. Flaw is a flaw whether it appears in extreme conditions or during everyday desktop usage. It is always better not to have any flaws no matter how rare it occurs. I personally thank the programmer who wrote OCCT for pointing out this problem.

I'd love to provide more data by testing out my 4890s but I can't run the program on Win7-64. Is there a solution for that?

Was that referring to me . I wasn't being hostile, just stating my results. Afterall, the OP wanted for thoughts, and wanted him to dig more!

What's the point ?

...

They seem limited to 82/83A. Please help us dig more !

[STEvil]

YThen that would be a core problem, not a power design problem.

Actually it could indicate either, but given how many cards stop at about 82/83/84A (slightly different per card hence why not all reference cards exhibit the issue identically) it is most likely an OCP issue (ie: voltage supply, not core).