Official HD 2900 Discussion Thread

[Eastcoasthandle]

I would hold my woooing until I see some DX10 benches


lets face it, even if R600 is slower in DX9, it is still fast enough

That's mute when there are dozens of DX9 games and only 1-2 DX10 games

Besides, if you read this it's becoming apparent they have a very old version of the R600. Remember you are only looking at a xtx that's clocked 50 higher then the XT. Even if the retail version of the XTX is at 800/2200 that's still higher then what 8800 is set to and still shows higher performance (from the GTX I am not inclined to say the same with the GTS do to problems read in posts).

Don't forget that it's a good sign that the xt/xtx retail version my crush the 8800. This IMO as the result of lifting NDA next week instead of the 14th. In other words, when you have a good product, there is no need to hide it from the competition <barcelona> COUGH.

[v_rr]

Ok, so before this goes totally out of hand, let me say this, and this will be my final say on the matter, until the NDA is lifted: AMD made certain decisions concerning this card. I took a hard look out there, to see what's being leaked, and it seems there are still some stuff that are totally made up - tbh, it smells like a FUD campaign to me, if I take into consideration certain emails that are flying around lately. Certainly there are some stuff out there that are true, and you will know which is which when the NDA lifts soonish. The journalists that were in Tunis certainly know, and are probably laughing at some of those at this minute.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=3126

[XeRo]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=3126

meh, most important thing is will that R600 be the so called G80 killer that it was made out to be? Probably not.

[deathman20]

Hasn't anyone learned anything from CPU's? Higher clocks doesn't mean its faster than the competitor.

Sure its not a great performer in those benches but well now that I think of it. Surely the 8800GTS was an OCed card as well. Wish they showed some OC benches on the 2900XT.

[DilTech]

death, unfortunately it's actually becoming increasingly difficult to find reference clocked NVidia cards.

Going by the definition of "stock clocks" though, the out-of-the-box clock speeds are stock. PNY are one of the only brands that still sell reference clocked NV cards.

Now, if ATi allow vendors to sell overclocked cards, then you may have a valid argument. For now though, the fact that you can buy the 8 series in stores at those clocks makes them stock.

[deathman20]

death, unfortunately it's actually becoming increasingly difficult to find reference clocked NVidia cards.

Going by the definition of "stock clocks" though, the out-of-the-box clock speeds are stock. PNY are one of the only brands that still sell reference clocked NV cards.

Now, if ATi allow vendors to sell overclocked cards, then you may have a valid argument. For now though, the fact that you can buy the 8 series in stores at those clocks makes them stock.

PNY, EVGA, Leadtek, Zogis, Asus, XFX. Those are all the manufactures that have original manufacture clocked cards at newegg. So just more than one manufacture sells reference cards and that was just the 8800GTS series (640 and 320meg).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...page=1&bop=And

Guess I should of said reference instead of stock when I was talking. Question is where they using a reference board or a faster one.

[Eastcoasthandle]

death, unfortunately it's actually becoming increasingly difficult to find reference clocked NVidia cards.

Going by the definition of "stock clocks" though, the out-of-the-box clock speeds are stock. PNY are one of the only brands that still sell reference clocked NV cards.

Now, if ATi allow vendors to sell overclocked cards, then you may have a valid argument. For now though, the fact that you can buy the 8 series in stores at those clocks makes them stock.

Sorry but that's not correct. The stock clocks can always be found at Nvidia's homepage. You don't go by what some 3rd party vendor decides to OC it to then declare that's stock settings. Those have always been and will always be OC settings "supposedly" guaranteed by that vendor.
............................8800GTX....8800GTS.... 8600GTS.....8600GT....8500GT
Core Clock (MHz)..........575..........500..........675...... ....540..........450
Shader Clock (MHz)......1350........1200........1450.........11 90.........900
Memory Clock (MHz)......900..........800........1000..........7 00..........400

[eXceeded]

Hasn't anyone learned anything from CPU's? Higher clocks doesn't mean its faster than the competitor.

Sure its not a great performer in those benches but well now that I think of it. Surely the 8800GTS was an OCed card as well. Wish they showed some OC benches on the 2900XT.

Every ATI card I have had has been a poor overclocker (I've had an 9800Pro, X800 Pro, X800XT and now a X1900XTX).... the 8800GTS I had was an awesome overclocker as well as some other nvidia cards I have had....

[DilTech]

Sorry but that's not correct. The stock clocks can always be found at Nvidia's homepage. You don't go by what some 3rd party vendor decides to OC it to then declare that's stock settings. Those have always been and will always be OC settings "supposedly" guaranteed by that vendor.
............................8800GTX....8800GTS.... 8600GTS.....8600GT....8500GT
Core Clock (MHz)..........575..........500..........675...... ....540..........450
Shader Clock (MHz)......1350........1200........1450.........11 90.........900
Memory Clock (MHz)......900..........800........1000..........7 00..........400

That's the reference clocks...Reference clock and stock clock is two different things.

Stock is the clockspeed the part you buy runs out of the box, it's really that simple.

[Cobalt]

Every ATI card I have had has been a poor overclocker (I've had an 9800Pro, X800 Pro, X800XT and now a X1900XTX).... the 8800GTS I had was an awesome overclocker as well as some other nvidia cards I have had....

Thats just your experience though. I have always had very decent OCs from my ATI cards. The only nV card I had did get any benefit from overclocking and was quickly replaced by a 9700 (guess what the nV was )

[masaville]

R600 will be a jackpot for AMD if the board is priced right.

Enthusiast grade high-end parts account for <5% share in revenue, performance parts @ ~$250 are responsible for >70% of incomes in GPU business.

High-end is only for showing off, nothing else.
Mainstream-performance is what matters and where da booty comes from.

You do have a valid point. They need one hell of a marketing plan based on the right price points and they can be successful with this card. Pricing it in-line with the 8800s would be a bad idea, so I somehow doubt they will be doing that, unless they are prepared for a serious uphill battle.

[jas420221]

Every ATI card I have had has been a poor overclocker (I've had an 9800Pro, X800 Pro, X800XT and now a X1900XTX).... the 8800GTS I had was an awesome overclocker as well as some other nvidia cards I have had....

All my ati cards were stellar overclockers...

Have you ever seen a 12 pipe X800pro (not flashed to 16 pipes) break 7k in 3dmk05 on air?

How about a non flashed 9800pro clearing 4k in 05?

Sorry u had bad luck...but its probably just the samples u got, not ATI.

[masaville]

meh, most important thing is will that R600 be the so called G80 killer that it was made out to be? Probably not.

Exactly. It's like a tortise and the hare. Maybe they can trick the hare into losing the race somehow....I doubt it hehe.

It's certainly no G80 killer based on those benchmarks and it would need 'miracle' driver optimization to become one.

[Eastcoasthandle]

That's the reference clocks...Reference clock and stock clock is two different things.

Stock is the clockspeed the part you buy runs out of the box, it's really that simple.

They are one and the same in this example (in the context that it's been used). Unless you can provide some core arch. GPU changes that make one different from another? If all you are referencing is the "clock speed" then it's simply the same. Anyone can change the clock speed of a video card. But it doesn't make it "the new" stock clock for that video card.

[SADS]

being honest im about tired of all the speculation so far.
bring on the day when the card is out there for us all to get our hands on and get something that isnt pretty much just hear say and 'news'.

okay a student like me wont be able to afford one but at least the information around the web will likely be a bit more accurate, what with all the 'old version of the cards' and 'old drivers'.
i just cant wait till there are full reviews and not just small table with a couple of numbers on.

there's a difference between speculation and news.

[cantankerous]

Every ATI card I have had has been a poor overclocker (I've had an 9800Pro, X800 Pro, X800XT and now a X1900XTX).... the 8800GTS I had was an awesome overclocker as well as some other nvidia cards I have had....

I have had pretty much the same success with my ATI cards. It is because of this that I no longer get lower models in hopes of reaching higher model speeds after an overclock. It just never seems to work out that way. Starting from my X1900XTX I am always only buying the very top end part and hoping for a minimal overclock, that way I am still on top an not having buyers remorse as $100 to me is worth knowing I have the fastest, and not regretting it a week later that the $100 I saved could have been made up with my next pay cheque, yet I am stuck with what I feel is an under performing part than what I could have had.

[cantankerous]

That's the reference clocks...Reference clock and stock clock is two different things.

Stock is the clockspeed the part you buy runs out of the box, it's really that simple.

I'm with Diltech on this. I do see the other posters side loud and clear, but to me stock clocks are what card is suppose to be doing out of the box as set by the manufacturer. Reference clocks to me are clocks set as a recommendation or a suggestion from the chip designer that the card should be run at.

[DilTech]

They are one and the same in this example (in the context that it's been used). Unless you can provide some core arch. GPU changes that make one different from another? If all you are referencing is the "clock speed" then it's simply the same. Anyone can change the clock speed of a video card. But it doesn't make it "the new" stock clock for that video card.

The manufacturer considers the clock speed the card is sold at as it's stock speed. They warranty the card to run at that speed, right? They sell it running at that speed, with no modifications, be it software or hardware, required to make it run that speed right?

Wouldn't that technically, by any means of the term, make it the cards stock speed?

[Ubermann]

The ATI R6xx And What It Means To Us

Although this may seem to be the start of some mindless bashing of AMD and ATI, please don't judge me so harshly just yet. This article is not about how AMD and ATI screwed up. It's about what the R600 means to us, the average computer enthusiast; and what will the VPU affect AMD-ATI's future? With the launch fast approaching, it would be good to look at what ATI fans can look forward to in the R600.

A long good read: Tech ARP

(Stock speed to me it was it runs at before overclocking)

[alexio]

Please remember that DAAMIT has every reason to make their upcoming products look like crap (hint: 8800U, 8600GTX, etc). I'm pretty convinced that the retail products will perform a lot better.

[Eastcoasthandle]

The manufacturer considers the clock speed the card is sold at as it's stock speed. They warranty the card to run at that speed, right? They sell it running at that speed, with no modifications, be it software or hardware, required to make it run that speed right?

Wouldn't that technically, by any means of the term, make it the cards stock speed?

No, because what you suggest makes it no different from what any user with ATI tool, ATI Tray, Rivatuner, etc can do on their own. Also, any user can alter the bios to change the clock speed. This alone validates my point in this example. Just because a vendor finds a good OC doesn't make it a new stock clock speed. It only makes it the new over clocked speed. There is no reason to re-invent over clocking into something that it is not. Or else we repeat what we should have learned from the past .

[grimREEFER]

well, at least u can fold on it.

[Think]

well, at least u can fold on it.

lol

Well, soon we will find out the truth. If it holds then dailytech will be in my favorites...if not, I will not visit that site again.

[theteamaqua]

i hope there is a HD2950 or 8900GTX thats single card (not like 7950 GX2) .... or if nv do get 9800 out b4 end of this year ill get that , too...

[Lightman]

It seems like DT numbers are a bit off

Bum_JCRules wrote:
While I am required to follow the NDA, the stuff up on Daily Tech today is almost worthless. Yes Anandtech was present in Tunisia (signing Non-disclosure agreements like the Inquirer), why they are posting this stuff is beyond me because their numbers are off. They must be only using the XP drivers and OS because the numbers in CF vs the GTX are very much different. So until I can officially comment on the architecture and the performance.. hold all of this as useless until the rest of the world writes about it.

Link:
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardw...derasc-75.html

Also Kristopher Kubicki in his blog mentions new drivers and CF setup:

I was curious about the lack of HDMI as well, though one partner told me on the XT the only HDMI capabilities would be via a dongle (so no sound obviously).

Someone "reached out and touched us" today and gave us 2 Radeon XT cards for use in Crossfire and a different driver (350MB ?!?!). Expect benchmarks this week.

Link:
http://www.dailytech.com/DailyTech+D...rticle7079.htm

Lets wait and see