Suggestion for a safer forum

[Bergo]

As of late I grow increasingly worried about the safety of fellow forum members. I see more poeple than ever before walk blindly into dangers they fail to comprehend and put themselves and others at risk of injury or death. As a forum member it is not my place to make rules, but I sure can make a suggestion or two. So I would like to propose that something be done to verify the skill/comptetence of members who wish to enguage in the discusion and execution of projects which would be deemed more hazardous than usual. I think that anyone who is ready to build a cascade/autocascade or discuss activities which would be considered unorthodox or frowned upon by the refrigeration industry at least post, in one consolidated thread, a successful single stage build or two to show that they have a firm grasp of the basics. anyone who feels they are ready, and have the resources to build a more advanced system can surely slap together a simple single stage phase change unit to show that they are competant. Anyone who could not provide at least that, should not be allowed (on this forum) to enguage in activities or discusion which would be deemed more dificult.

thats just my

[eddieate]

but then that exludes people like me who don't want to build phase change units at all but love reading about your guys exploits and the never ending quest for lower temps...
Ed.

[wdrzal]

I've been fighting this battle ever since I joined. We need the whole community to get onboard. Safety has all ways been my number 1 concern. Runmc has been cracking down on dangerious Talk and experiments. Their are established working practices in the HVAC industry and they are there for only one reason............SAFETY.

[wdrzal]

but then that exludes people like me who don't want to build phase change units at all but love reading about your guys exploits and the never ending quest for lower temps...
Ed.

No one ever going to get excluded for reading,in fact we encourage everyone to particapate even if you are not planning on building a unit. There are many skills involved, from the mechnal construction part to the physics of refrigeration. Every member can take away some knowledge that will benfit them the rest of their life even if they never build a rig.

[Bergo]

maybe create an "xtreme" sub-forum with read only privaleges for all users, and posting privalages for those qualified?

[Alec]

maybe create an "xtreme" sub-forum with read only privaleges for all users, and posting privalages for those qualified?

Sounds good, but maybe set it so that normal members can only post replys to threads, and not post their own. Then the "xtreme" author/ thread starters can get some valuable feedback whilst the less able phasechange builders / fans are kept away from posting their own logs until they are competant enough.

Only thing is, where does this "xtreme phasechange" rank start? Im thinking possibly -100C club members...


Anyways, very good point bergo; I think the community will benefit by this

Thanks,
Alec

[iq100]

Help. I built my new rigg inside a freezer. And now the door closed, and I cannot get out. I fear I will freeze to death. Fortunately, I have my wireless laptop with me and this message will get out. I am all in favor to a new hierarchy to filter the words of posters. I might volunteer. Will there be any fee or at least prestige to sitting on a committee to determine who can post and what they can say?

[masterofpuppets]

If somebody makes a stupid move and blows themselves up, it's their fault for being careless or going against standard practices. It's upto them to read and keep safe. The safety notices are posted here, and wdrzal is constantly reminding people, if they still don't listen, it's their fault if they get blown up, honestly.

[[XC] MarioMaster]

i agree, if people don't want to listen to people's warnings about safety it should be their problem if they get themselves injured/killed because there is no way they could bring any liability to anyone here at xs, people are always flaming people for pushing safety measures and i think it's stupid

[maverik-sg1]

IMHO the only thing this section needs is a stickied warning or a pop up or a pre-read screen - then it's business as usual

I have vested interest in seeing how things progress as I have just commissioned Raven155 to build me a Single Stage Monster cooler - not only do I want to see the progress being made but it's really interesting to see how people build things and to be able to ask questions about it is a fantastic privelage.

Using a warning/disclaimer system in this section would be in the spirit of a forum and sufficient for XS members to understand the risks involved in undertaking this sort of work.

Mav

[[XC] MarioMaster]

agreed^

[Marvin]

Agreed, maybe a section with phase builders would be great.
My respects to wdrzal....

[runmc]

We have a standing forum rule here that we will not help anyone build a cascade or autocascade without them building and understanding single stage phase change first.

It is still our obligation to be friendly and courteous to all members, skilled or unskilled. whooops - I mean but I don't mean

[Gray Mole]

Definitely a good idea to remind everyone of the need for safe practice.

Walt's been at the forefront of that since I've been here and does a great job of keeping people aware of risks.

I don't know about special status for those with experience but a specific subforum for established builders would be kind of neat I suppose.

I just how that the new ppl to phase stay aware of safety as this is a fun game, but has some very serious dangers and needs people to be very aware of them

Gray

[Jort]

like gray saids, people find it fun to build a phase-change. or like the one in my sig...

its not something like hammer a nail into the wall.

frostbite, electric shock, dangerous and deadly gasses, fire.... all these are possible risks of building phase-change

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Put up a video of a catastrophic failure with a caption : THIS WILL BE YOU IF NOT CARE FULL" And if they're still dumb enough to do it without learning the basics then it's the SOL rule they're sol!

[wdrzal]

XS doesn't need any sub-forums...It doesn't need any special privleged people......We are are equal..............What XS does need is to moderate from within. .........That means to THINK before you post something dangerious. Or wild thought up designs that would be nothing but dangerious. If you make a post about a untried or untest be sure to mention "this is just a theory" There is so much BS in the cooling section lately noobs or anyone else who reads it , just would take it for fact.

Lets all do a better job of self moderation and give the mods a break.

And of course "Work Safely"

[jinu117]

Good one Once you start building and think about safety, you will see being safe not only gets you safety but better running system in the end. I've never really read tool manual before I started doing phase change and I gotta say, all this practices and proper procedures will take some extra money and time but in long run will benefit you greatly. In fact, more you read and more you learn, you become more aware of dangers lurking around with pressure or combustible gases for heaven's sake. Good luck to all and yes, cooling is fun but it isn't so fun when you are not around.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Well if you look at what I first posted and how it drifted to nothingness it seems no one wants very well layd out posts. What we should do is make some well layd out guids, NOT LINKS but actual real primmer guuids stickied. Sort of like my flaring one that all so died, logicly laid out. that way they see every thing in nice bold easy to read text.

and I can't put it any clearer as my sanity insists that it is indeed insane.

[404Power]

Sry folks ... but ... don't get me wrong but that's all " a lil bit" ridiculous in my opinion!
That all reminds if there would be a sub-forum in every car-forum, where all these Tuningfrekas post their cars with >500HPs!
So that they can verify, that you already have driven a 300HP car or so, before you can enter this subforum and post your 500HP car!
I hope you understand what I mean (sry for my bad English! )
I mean ... It's GREAT that all of you (especially runmc and wdrzal) look after those people who don't have so much experience .. but I think creating a sub-forum or measures like this are the wrong way to beware these people from this dangerous hobby!

[ixtapalapaquetl]

Well intentioned as it seems, requirements such as those proposed to view a particular forum strikes me as a little fascist; maybe that's just me.

On the other hand, while the information to build a single stage is all here, the process is far from explicitly laid out. It might be a tremendous burden, but as suggested above, I think the best way to ensure safety is to make certain that the necessary information is as easily accessed as possible.

To this end, some godly soul might consider explicitly organizing links in order of use in the creation of such a beast. Such a guide might include copious warnings in the initial paragraph, along with additional warnings during every dangerous step. Finally, it might conclude that successful completion of several of these projects would indicate a skill level prerequisite to moving on to cascades and beyond.

This would be quite a task though!

[SexyMF]

Sounds like the phase-change club isn't so elite anymore and people are trying to make out like it was a difficult and dangerous path they walked down, prevailing only through absorbtion of vast tomes of knowledge and adherance to strict safety guidelines.
Of course this is just BS.

It is not at all difficult to build a single-stage system. It requires very few parts, all of which can be purchased easily. Skills for brazing can be acquired in a few minutes of pratice. Electrical wiring, well most of the builders here which sell to other people I suspect are breaking the law since they are likely unqualified to do electrical work.

Realistically most people use Propane. Yes its flammable, but so what. You don't need a safety course to use your BBQ. You open the cylinder and light it. Sounds a lot more dangerous than a small charge of flammable gas possibly leaking out of a system and possibly igniting somehow.

I think all this negativity towards new people asking questions (or being overly eger) is just because some people don't want them joining the club so easily.

[vapb400]

Like Xeon said, I think the stickies are the required makeover. There is a TON of information in the stickies, but they are not layed out in any logical order. I think that is the major issue, people can read the stickies and still not grasp the major ideas behind phase change. We just need one noob sticky that outlines the basics and gives links to everything in a well ordered, thought out way, and then the thread needs to be locked to prevent getting cluttered.

A javascript popup window for guests as well as members first viewing the phase change sections or members with <100 posts should pop-up warning the viewer of the potential dangers of phase change. Some may find that too obtrusive thugh.

I look forward to the improvements but I think success requires better knowledge, not division of the forum.

[jinu117]

Sounds like the phase-change club isn't so elite anymore and people are trying to make out like it was a difficult and dangerous path they walked down, prevailing only through absorbtion of vast tomes of knowledge and adherance to strict safety guidelines.
Of course this is just BS.

It is not at all difficult to build a single-stage system. It requires very few parts, all of which can be purchased easily. Skills for brazing can be acquired in a few minutes of pratice. Electrical wiring, well most of the builders here which sell to other people I suspect are breaking the law since they are likely unqualified to do electrical work.

Realistically most people use Propane. Yes its flammable, but so what. You don't need a safety course to use your BBQ. You open the cylinder and light it. Sounds a lot more dangerous than a small charge of flammable gas possibly leaking out of a system and possibly igniting somehow.

I think all this negativity towards new people asking questions (or being overly eger) is just because some people don't want them joining the club so easily.

This is the exact attitude that worries me. I've personally seen 2 post of propane accidents and few real life story about dangers associated with it.
One accident was that the person was only knocked back by force of explosion, the other accident the person came out thankfully not blind as he shieded his eyes and got burn on face only. Than there are 2 incidents where I know one person died (not making phase change though), and another incident one of more known builder who plays a lot with propane flying up with thankfully no harm to his body.
I get the feeling there are unreported people out there who just never made it to forums back.
Now tell me these incidents are just because of carelessness (to some degree, yes it is...). But at least 2 of the incident clearly shows from what transpired that the person didn't take necessary safety measure as he didn't have a clue on what could happen.
You say it is safe... it might be only if the person dealing with knows what is going on. You see, car is very dangerous animal. Would you let 10 year old drive a car who had no experiences? We drive one every day (well most of us I assume) and thankfully didn't die since we are posting here still but there ARE necessary precautions and measure taken when driving.
You preach things without substances (such as guide on how to work with propane and what to do and what not to do as well as emergency procedure when things do go bad) than it just is UNSAFE and careless.
Not particualry directed to you but all those who post on here saying propane and single stage is damned easy.
Maybe I should care less and just get bemused when someone get hurts?

[Bergo]

It is not at all difficult to build a single-stage system. It requires very few parts, all of which can be purchased easily.

Agreed, thats why i don't think it's too much to ask that poeple post at least a successful single stage build before they move onto something potentially more hazardous. If they can't execute the simplest of builds, then they shouldn't try the most challenging.
It's like going off the high diving boards without knowing how to swim.