ageia PhysX processor arrived today... is it overclockable?

[irev210]

Ok, if this is true then what benches are people waiting for here What's the excitement about?

look at the size of that die...

125 million transistors. Im excited... graphics have gotten great.. AI has improved, but the game enviroment has stated pretty much non-interactive.


this could be a great change.

[Negative Design]

I'd love to see HL2 physics meet Ageia physx for a beautiful marriage...that would be amazing.

[ULJarad]

You'd love to see Havok and Ageia together? :p The reason Ageia (hardware accel) looks more promising than ever before is because it's not Havok (software accel). I think you meant to say you wish Havok supported hardware acceleration. Even then, that means more ragdolls being thrown around - no environmental distruction - because Source doesn't support it.

[Levish]

have you heard of HavokFX? which NVidia is already picking up

http://www.havok.com/content/view/187/77/

[Charles Wirth]

That Novodex Rocket demo is pretty cool. Most of the demos fly at 1000+ FPS on the Conroe except the big bang.

Big bang drags the Conroe down as well.

[Deathspawner]

Only 1000FPS? This thing is outdated already!

Seriously though, I can't wait until more games support it. The upcoming games that do though should blow our pants off.

[STEvil]

I cant wait for nV and ATi to get into the phsyics battle full force.

I could use an R600 for graphics and my "old" X1600XT for physics

[ULJarad]

have you heard of HavokFX? which NVidia is already picking up

http://www.havok.com/content/view/187/77/

There are two types of physics: effects- and gameplay-physics. Havok FX basically lets the CPU continue doing gameplay-physics while the GPU takes off some of the workload to do effect-physics.

This is taken right from the Havok FX website:Q: Will Ageia's PPU be able to handle game-play physics as well as effects physics?

This needs to be emphazied:
Q: Can the soluttion ATI/NVIDIA/Havock offers accelerete game-play physics?

A: NO, they can only do effects physics, real physics still have to be calcutated on the CPU.

It's like comparing oranges to apples to compare AGEIA soulution to the wannabe-solution offered by ATI/NVIDIA/Havock...
Ones does it ALL: Game-play and effect physics.
One can only do one: Effect physics.

Terracide - When I read the PPU-subforum a lt of people sadly think that their GPU's will give them real physics...sad

[STEvil]

Can you give us an example of "effects-physics" and "gameplay-physics" ?

As far as I understand the AGEIA way uses a randomized calculation to make everything "realistic" which is going to produce a different result for everyone.

IE: I fire a rocket at a pile of rubble in a game. On my screen a cinder block may go flying by harmlessly while on the screens of other people they may be struck by the cinder block, or the cinder block may hit a switch which releases a wrecking ball which smashes another player through a brick wall....

[ULJarad]

Can you give us an example of "effects-physics" and "gameplay-physics" ?

Certainly.

Q: Will a GPU physics solution be able to do both gameplay and effects physics?
A: No, this is a common misconception. A GPU can only do effects physics, meaning that it will not affect the environment with things like flying shrapnel. You will see the shrapnel, but it won't be able to hit players, go through wall, deform the terrain...etc.

-source

In other words, with GPU-accelerated physics if you were to shoot a rocket at the ground, the CPU would calculate the reconstruct the crater the explosion created but the GPU would only do the chunks of dirt flying around. A PPU would do both, probably quicker too.
-edit- If the chunks of ground are intended to affect gameplay, ie fly off and potentially kill someone then that would be considered gameplay-physics. The GPU would have done nothing to contribute in this situation as far as physics go.

Think about it: Let's imagine TES:Oblivion with a single 7900GT. A 7900GT is fast, but it's a different story with Oblivion as it is. Now imagine Oblivion with gameplay-physics supported. So you are already running a modest ~20-40fps at highest detail and everything, now they want that card that's not even doing that great to do more work: effect-physics. The CPU would continue doing what's already in the game, but the GPU would just do more, bringing the fps down. Now with a PPU, the CPU doesn't work on physics as much, and the GPU continues doing what it already is doing. The PPU would just allow another element to be added to the game without compromising.

It's similar to a sound card. Normally, going from disabled sound to full surround audio, you lose performance, a lot depending on the quality and quantity sounds, sources, channels, etc. At least on onboard sound, anyway. With a good enough sound card, the difference is near nothing.

As far as I understand the AGEIA way uses a randomized calculation to make everything "realistic" which is going to produce a different result for everyone.

Havok does the same thing. Remember the end of Max Payne 2? ATM, Counter-Strike only supports effect-physics online. You shoot a guy and lands in a funny position and take a screenshot, it's different for everyone. Besides, if they do include gameplay-physics, it would have to be universally the same for each person because it affects gameplay. When/if they do include it, it would only be random with respect to each event, not individually random per person.

IE: I fire a rocket at a pile of rubble in a game. On my screen a cinder block may go flying by harmlessly while on the screens of other people they may be struck by the cinder block, or the cinder block may hit a switch which releases a wrecking ball which smashes another player through a brick wall....

Q: Will a GPU physics solution be able to do both gameplay and effects physics?
A: No, this is a common misconception. A GPU can only do effects physics, meaning that it will not affect the environment with things like flying shrapnel. You will see the shrapnel, but it won't be able to hit players, go through wall, deform the terrain...etc.

-source

Another good example: say you have a gun that shoots actual bullets in a game (unlike games like UT2k4 where the machine gun's bullets hit instantly when fired). In GPU acceleration, the GPU would do the shells that fall and bounce on the floor below, while the shots fired that kill and damage walls is done through the CPU. A PPU would do both!

[[cTx]Philosophy]

If this would help my oblivion performance, id be right on it...
But im sure it does nothing as all the rest of the posts have shown..
falling cubes has been only conclusive evidence so far for me..
oh and kabooming dumpsters..

[-Acid-]

city of vilians supports A PPu and its out now

[ULJarad]

If this would help my oblivion performance, id be right on it...
But im sure it does nothing as all the rest of the posts have shown..
falling cubes has been only conclusive evidence so far for me..
oh and kabooming dumpsters..

Everything I've mentioned is if if they supported both GPU and PPU acceleration, which may not happen on the same game together for a long time.

[STEvil]

you didnt explain why they can only do "effects-physics" though, you just told us its the only way they can do it.

EDIT

just so you dont have to tell us: its because of how the physics API's are programmed, not because GPU's "cant do it".

[KoukiFC3S]

Try this http://www.novodex.com/rocket/NovodexRocket_V1_1.exe and try the Big Bang demo...that demo can supposedly make an FX60 and current SLI/XF systems cry.

That demo is so cool!
Does it support the Physx tho?

[[XC] leviathan18]

ive read somewhere aegis is workin with havok so they will use their API someone search for havok and aegis...


damn now i want to buy one of these... anyone knows where i can buy one?

[irev210]

ive read somewhere aegis is workin with havok so they will use their API someone search for havok and aegis...


damn now i want to buy one of these... anyone knows where i can buy one?

i am going to try and do an XS group buy... i might be able to get a lot of them within the next week or so, all OEM.

Ill update later.

[uwackme]

Seems really interesting.

If I were Ageia, I'd male a PCIe x1 version, and have it run in a 5-1/4" bay with a cable to the PCIe slot. Figuring the space on the motherboard is getting TIGHT, especially for SLI/CFire hardcore users that would be flocking to add a Physix card.

[Jester FPS]

^ hehe, interesting idea. I too am low on available slots, tv tuner, souncard, sli in the future so that would be perfect.

[madgamer]

thats a pretty interesting idea. I wonder, can they do that? I mean, i've never seen anything that does that, but is it possible? what type of interconnect would run between the part that plugs into the slow and the connector in the normal 5 1/4 bay? Would latency introduced by lengthening the interconnect be an issue? it seems like a good idea though, as you could use that 1x slot hidden under your videocards (or even just under any 1 dual slot cooling solution card). Have you seen thermaltakes sli power supply that mounts in the 5 1/4 bay? it kind of reminds me of that.

[irev210]

ive read somewhere aegis is workin with havok so they will use their API someone search for havok and aegis...


damn now i want to buy one of these... anyone knows where i can buy one?

I just got another one, you have PM.

[irev210]

okay, get a list of tests you would like me to run... im ageia ready again.

[ULJarad]

Tests, plural? The only thing that supports it is the tiny demo that comes with the driver. Even the hardware accelerated physics test in 3DMark06 shouldn't be affected because it's done throught he GPU.

[irev210]

Tests, plural? The only thing that supports it is the tiny demo that comes with the driver. Even the hardware accelerated physics test in 3DMark06 shouldn't be affected because it's done throught he GPU.

haha, well if anyone comes across anything... ill play with it

[ahmad]

Just to remain on the open minded side of things, I wouldn't take advice on what ATI and Nvidia GPUs can or can't do from Ageia