Xtreme 2006 Autocascade Competition

[jinu117]

Good... now that we are rolling... next thing i had in mind was
25% performance, 25% cost, 25% look, and 25% on practicality (noise, ease of use, mounting whatever that makes it more suitable for use)
This will put unequal type of components more in line for advantage /vs disadvantage. Rotary will be loud which will kill some of practicality while raging on on performance, hermatic in general will go the other way around, etc.
Also, bit of attnetion to detail will show up as maybe the last edge you need to make it to the ranks
Another thing is volunteer for judge panel.
Also, need some consistant method of measuring the load. I don't expect competition to hold 200w per say... that will just about kill most of people despite R134a has great capacity capability. Thinking more in line of 150w load for this and some standarized method of putting heat on. Maybe your CPU with certain voltage and certain overclock can be accounted as 150w if you don't want to get into load tester making.
Cost of unit, I will exclude price of refrigerant as R-134a is going to be universal. Also, most of tool cost will be excluded as that will make the idea of budget phase change nearly impossible... (there are no real budget tools for this... -_-) This part, I will need heavy discussion as it can really uneven playing ground when you have much better and varied tools.
Noise measuring can be done somewhat easily once we set up standard method of such... maybe passing around db meter between competitor might not be bad idea with recorded clip to see which type of noise the unit produce.
Looks we just can't hide it.
That is just generalization... now let's get down to nitty gritty one at a time until we settle things down.
#1. What kind of tools should be permitted and what would not be?

[ewitte]

Yes I don't think the gas makes it all that dangerous when inside the compressor. Usually what most people have problems with is lack of experience. This type of cooling especially cascade can be difficult and potentially dangerous if you don't know what your doing. I'm looking for some type of community college class or something along that lines for the basics before I start building.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

R-134a and great capacity doen't belong in the same sentance, it is lesser performance then R-12, but its dynamics is ideal for chillers, and it has nice head pressures that are some what easier on the compressor.

After work I'll post the Enthalpy charts to R-290; R-12; & R-22 just to give you an idea of their differances in capacity.

[jinu117]

R-134a and great capacity doen't belong in the same sentance, it is lesser performance then R-12, but its dynamics is ideal for chillers, and it has nice head pressures that are some what easier on the compressor.

After work I'll post the Enthalpy charts to R-290; R-12; & R-22 just to give you an idea of their differances in capacity.

R-12 sure... it's everyone's beloved gas except it will become dinsosaur. Especially place where you are at I believe it is illegal?
R-22 got license? Also much higher head pressure. Given limited condensing size most of people will be using, I wouldn't say capacity of system will be too good and safe at same time for first builders.
Before saying something like this, please think what this thread is about.

[jinu117]

Okay, tools: (Will update as I get more feedback)
Not allowed: Lathe, Mill, Drill press with cross slide vise.
Allowed:

[Ratax]

Okay, tools: (Will update as I get more feedback)
Not allowed: Lathe, Mill, Drill press with cross slide vise.
Allowed:

Well, for a real gettho system, one tool allowed could be our or someone's teeth

Now for real, I think that comon tools like pliers, normal drillers or dremel and such could be allowed.

Not allowing tube benders, swag tool and others frigo especific tools would be interesting , but I think there's no need for that...

[ewitte]

Not allowing tube benders, swag tool and others frigo especific tools would be interesting , but I think there's no need for that...

Or fire or gas (refrigerant)

[martinjon666]

A swagging tool is only 7 bucks at home depot, and i picked up my tubing bender for 15 at a plumbing store.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

R-12 sure... it's everyone's beloved gas except it will become dinsosaur. Especially place where you are at I believe it is illegal?
R-22 got license? Also much higher head pressure. Given limited condensing size most of people will be using, I wouldn't say capacity of system will be too good and safe at same time for first builders.
Before saying something like this, please think what this thread is about.

You obviusly failed to read my post I said TO ILLISTRATE THE DIFFERANCES OF R-134a. Not as a sujestion to use.

Thank you but I am well aware of R-12 I deeply do not condon its use due to the damage it does to the environment, R-22 has high heads we know this I know this The newbs now know this (From reading thees posts)

I know what the thread is about thats why I posted the enthalpy chart for R-134a, I was going to post the others to show diff between the types. you need this info as compressors are oft rated in BTU/H for R-12 or 22 if they know the dif they can adjust the capacity to R-134a.

[wdrzal]

Lathe and mills should not be allowed, it would give a huge (evaporator construction) advantage to those of us with these tools...

Tom

So then those who you a drill press as a mill are also not allowed?????? that is a unreasonable conclusion, in my opinion as its takes those tools to make advanced components to advance phase building past were its is today.

That would be reasonable if we were talking about a competition for noobs first build & limited to such & single stage, but that's not whats implied by Threads title.

[wdrzal]

R-22 has high heads we know this I know this The newbs now know this (From reading thees posts)

R22 is probably in over 80% of A/C units under 5 ton worldwide,pressures while higher than R12 ,is easily managed and it caries a good load if it's available to you.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

R22 is probably in over 80% of A/C units under 5 ton worldwide,pressures while higher than R12 ,is easily managed and it caries a good load if it's available to you.

Exactly my point in posting an enthalpy chart for it as nearly every knowen compressor will have data for R-22 on it and if they know the diffs between R-134a and R-22 it will give them an idea of how that unit will perform for R-134a.

R-290 beats R-22 on the Head pressures and another thing (Can't recall still groggy, I hate mornings)

[n00b 0f l337]

What about purchasing evaporators, definitly an addition to price, but some do sell quite affordable evaporators.

[jinu117]

The one major tool that seems to cause problem is drill press... Honestly, it isn't safe to cut coppper with it... at the same time, not everyone has one... and by spending $40-70 more it can turn into cheap mill (really cheap mill) with cross slide table... Man... where do we stop on this? I don't think people have problem with most of tools but this one will be irky.

[[486]]

have 3 classes:
134a and no better tools
good gasses and no tools and vice-versa
good gasses and better tools [limited to 12000 btu rotary compressor]
[better tools clasify as mill, lathe, drill presses, shapers, cast evaps, etc...