Intel Man

[sissy]

Hi Guys,

Never knew about this place until i seen it mentioned on a review site and thought i wonder what goes on there so i had a looksy and WOW very popular place with great info

Ive always dis-liked AMD and MBs to suit from the earlier days when i was working as a system builder, they would be unreliable, unstable, having to apply patches for this and that, RMAs were always frequent.

So many many years later still a system builder and ONLY using Intel Systems for reliability, stability and NON RMAs are just to good.

However im not here to bad mouth AMD at all, as its being years since ive even touched or looked at them and things do change over time.

I have being reading about the AMD's DC and Opteron CPUS and they seem very impressive BUT i still wonder about the above problems and thought why not come ask the experienced AMD users / builders.

The reason i ask is im tempted for the last time to build one and hoping that they have some what matured. Looked at using the following -

AMD 4200 or Opteron 165
Asus A8N32-SLI or A8NE

Whilst i dont really need SLI it just seems like a better board then the other but could be off the mark here.

So have they matured now and are the systems rock solid to be able to not worry about RMAing the CPU or MB?

I am certainly concerned about taking the plunge and looking for unbiased information from you guys.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Sissy

[Kobalt]

If you're overclocking, go with the opterons. If not, then go with the 4200. Also consider the opterons have twice the cache as the Manchester cores.

As long as you get a reliable nforce4 board, you shouldn't have any problems. Good luck exiting the stone age .

[sissy]

thanks for the reply kobalt appreciated... even with the sneaky remark "Good luck exiting the stone age"

Never really thought about OCn it but yes the cache made me think about Opterons thats for sure.

I have read the A8N32 is not the best for OCn but i really wouldnt want to push to any extreme levels like the way you guys do maybe just enough to get small performance boost as stability is my main concern.

So would it be fair to say this is the board of choice or is something else recommended?

thanks again

[sissy]

I just shot some vomit on my keyboard after reading your post. Dude , this is an oc'ing forum and not a debating one. You claim you're a system builder then guess what? I hope my future kids never purchase one from you because i've build many amd systems and not one has failed on me so goodluck in the future man. Sigh...

Mike its sad to always find in every place a few rotten ones who have nothing better to say other then rubbish someone.

Im not trying to debat anything as all i was asking is how are AMD and the current MBs to suit as from my past experience they were very unstable and fell over often so that makes me a BAD system builder because their product was unreliable SIGH! your a true champ.

We pump out around 20-30 Intel systems per week and i can tell you the return rate is almost ZERO with a couple of crook MBs or the odd piece of ram. I have never RMA'd an INTEL CPU since ive being in the computer game and its been 10 years.

Maybe you should think before you open your mouth in the future.

[Coroner Kyle]

The A8N32 is a stable board from my experience. Especially if you're not doing any major OC. I recommend doing a search for more information on that board as there is a thread about 40+ pages long.

Welcome to XS and hopefully AMD.

[Victorshen]

if ya keep thinkg intel is better
why waster your time making such a thread in such a place?

[Coroner Kyle]

Guys he is just asking a question about moving to AMD (what we all love to use). No need to attack him about having used Intel. And so what if he's had good luck w/ their product. It goes both ways, so chill and either answer his questions or don't post.

[einCe]

I just shot some vomit on my keyboard after reading your post. Dude , this is an oc'ing forum and not a debating one. You claim you're a system builder then guess what? I hope my future kids never purchase one from you because i've build many amd systems and not one has failed on me so goodluck in the future man. Sigh...

i believe that post is on grounds for a ban, might wanna clean it up before an admin finds it

[Kobalt]

If you don't need SLI, this motherboard is very cost effective and it performs fine.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E168131520493

This motherboard here is also a cost-effective SLI mobo. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138253 . If you need to overclock, then you'll have to spend more money and get the asus or DFI.

[trakslacker]

i believe that post is on grounds for a ban, might wanna clean it up before an admin finds it

hehe, I think an admin did find it.

sissy, first off welcome to Xtremesystems!!! We are very glad to have you here and I hope you enjoy your stay here!

And don't mind the few jackasses we have here on the board. 99.5% of all members here are awesome and extremely helpful. Please don't let your first impression from mike6969 sour you on the forum.

As far as AMD is concerned, there is no more instability whatsoever. AMD processors and compatible components are just as stable as Intel stuff at stock speeds.

You should definitely pick up a Opty 165, mildly OC it to 2.4-2.5 Ghz, and see how you like it.

[chew*]

Just so he knows though that there is a lot more to setting up a stable AMD system versus intel do to AMD's onboard memory controller. There are alot of timings that you may not be familiar with. As far as motherboards well If your looking for stability i wouldn't look towards DFI. If you want high overclocks and are willing to use workarounds to acchieve them then DFI would be a choice. My 2c

[Kayin]

I'll agree with chew*, it's not quite as simple, but at the same time, it is rather rewarding, and after finding a good setup it's smooth sailing from there.

I know the AMD problems you speak of, WAAAAY back in the day it really was a PITA, but it's really changed...

[chew*]

yah the biggest problems arrised from running memory async to the cpu fsb.......that equaled a lot of bsod's.

[AJF]

If you know you won't use SLI, the A8NE will be fine...I have one and it's been a charm for me (except for an onboard LAN problem that has since...corrected itself?). Either of those boards will let you squeeze some more speed out of a processor, so even if you don't plan on it you can always dabble, I've come to appreciate Asus's overclocking simplicity.

Good luck, and have some fun with AMD, even if it is on a limited basis,

[Mr_Slinky]

Sissy I know how you feel I have been a some what a loyal fan of Intel but have been converted over to AMD and yes there is extra time that you will need to spend getting familiar with the bios of the board and ram timings. Also how far would you be pushing the chip to like 20% more then stock or 40% more. We know stability is the main goal for you but your ram will defiantly need to scale that high also

Oh and welcome to Xtreme Systems!!

[pancake]

Times have changed in the computer world, amd no longer trys to copy intels chips, theyve perfected there own, if anything intel are the ones now looking to amd for inspiration.
And the nforce chipsets are probably the best ones you can get at the moment.
If your not looking to overclock much then choice of motherboard isnt really a issue as you can pretty much get 1-200 mhz more out of most mobos with ease.

[trance565]

if I were you, i would get some good ole pc 4000 just to be on the safe side, cuz if you DO overclock, as stated before, your ram does need to be up to scale, and one of the best ways to ensure that is to get faster ram, so pc4000 will get you probably as high as you would wanna go, and then later a bit more. in fact, i doubt you would use it at full speed for the first couple weeks

[mgleason007]

If you want both AGP and upgrade to SLI later there is always http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157081

I dont suggest anything asus as iv read nothing but problems with them and AMD lately

You can NOT run SLI on that board. It only has one x16 PCIe slot, so you will only be able to run one PCIe videocard, not two.

[mesyn191]

I'll agree with chew*, it's not quite as simple, but at the same time, it is rather rewarding, and after finding a good setup it's smooth sailing from there.

I know the AMD problems you speak of, WAAAAY back in the day it really was a PITA, but it's really changed...

I'd disagree with chew (and you), its a cake walk to set up a AMD system to be stable...

Don't OC it and run everything at stock. Unless something is damaged and/or installed improperly it'll be just as stable as any Intel system.

If you're talking about a stable OC then that is a whole other story (and I'd still disagree with you, all sorts of wierd problems show up when you OC a Intel or a AMD system, both have thier quirks...), but is still pretty easy IMO as you only need to mess with timings if you're trying to OC the RAM too, which unless you're aiming for some great Sandra Memory test scores is a waste of time performance wise. Just use the memory dividers if your RAM can't handle high clocks w/ low timings as there is no performance penalty using them with A64's and dual channel DDR @ 400Mhz already offers enough bandwidth to feed the chip so well that extra bandwidth has a minimal impact on performance at best.

I think some of the comments have been a little harsh towards OP as well but I also disagree with a lot of the stuff OP said. Even back in the K6 days AMD chips were good, they just ran hot and at that time many HSF's were designed improperly for them as a much higher clamping pressure was needed to provide proper contact between the HSF and IHS the K6 had (it was concave instead of convex like the Intel chips IIRC). Without that they often overheated, causing many of the instability issues that convinced people that they were crap... I don't think anyone today would hold Intel responsible if someone improperly mounted thier HSF or bought the wrong HSF for thier chips and then complained about stability issues with thier Intel chip, I don't see why people should do the same to AMD.

[Captin Insano]

Welcome to the forum... Even in the K6 days myself i never had any issues with AMD then either. But looking at now they have the best CPU's i belive is made with the A64 line of CPU weather it be single or dual core or FX.. I would find it very hard pressed to finad any of the problems you mentioned with todays chips.

[G H Z]

sissy,

I think the Asus board is perfect for what you are expecting out of your setup. The non-SLI version would be good too and I don't see a reason to spend the extra unless you wan't a dual card setup at some point. Stability is not an issue with current AMD rigs and as I'm sure you have already found out they run very cool with low power usage.

Almost everyone around here runs DFI boards because of their overclocking abilities and for me even when they are pushed to thier limits they remain very stable when setup correctly. I've built 5 workstations for a small office using the DFI DAGF board. They all run perfectly with X2 3800's @ 2.3Ghz on stock voltage & cooler aside form one that had a bad onboard LAN.

You should build one, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the performance of a dual core AMD rig.

[sissy]

For all those who reply courteously and for the warm welcomes thank you, it greatly was appreciated.

Ok you guys have convinced me to give it a go, why the hell not

I think ill go with the opteron 165 as "trakslacker" mentioned and few others also leant towards that CPU also.

Mr Slinky as far what % id over clock im not sure, i dont want to go aggressive but something that would give a nice gain.

As far as the ram is concerned i looked at getting -

TWINX2048-3500LLPRO XMS3500 2048MB 2-3-2-6-1T 2 x 184 DIMM

as i really need 2G of memory and seemed to allow room for OCn.

As i said before i dont have a need for SLI and looked at the A8N-E original but read here and a couple of other places that it wasnt as stable as the A8N32-SLI thus why i mentioned this board. However that could be wrong as "AJF" mentioned he has one and has been fine.

So im certainly open to suggestions and thoughts on the above thats for sure.

Once again thanks to all those who replied.

Have a good day.

[s e t h]

hello sissy.

for a nice stable 24/7 overclock setting i always aim for numbers i figure an engineer would design a motherboard at.
in this case 200 being stock 233.3 would be the first target and 266.6 the advanced target. (300 being the outer limits and almost impossible with 2gb ram kits unless you run the ram at a lowered ratio to the fsb. also stable 300fsb motherboards are a bit rare)

so presuming you aim for the 233.3 target for now the opteron 165 will only reach 233x9=2100mhz.
this is hardly any challenge for a man with so much pc experience.
so i would in your case get the 4200+ with an 11 multiplier.
yes it has half the cache but it also puts out less heat.
ok so with the 11 multiplier and the board target at 233 you final cpu speed would be 2566mhz.
that is a more challenging target and will be more rewarding when you reach it.
you will have a system then that will be very close to an fx60 in performance and it won't really have cost anything like as much as an fx60 system.

to make your life easy in this challenge you only need a few things.
a decent psu is a must as is a really good and prefferably silent air cooler.
lastly just make sure the ram you choose never has any difficulty reaching ddr466.

to really get the most likely chance of success it would be best if when you buy your cpu where you are able to know what the heatspreader says in the cpu.
many stepping will virtually gaurranty success.
so retail store shopping will help you select the right one (or calling the store of the distributer and asking them to read the codes through the cpu packaging)

anyway - just trying to help you get the most out of this experience