Opteron s939 aren't getting canceled... boy they fooled us!

[dave_graham]

The prices make no sense to me.
A Opteron 144 is cheaper than a Venice 3000+.
I think they will bosst the Opteron prices or they will reduce the Venice prices.
But in fact the Opterons are too cheap.
It doesn't matter to me, I'm happy with it, but where's the sense?
I can't imagine that AMD would be taht friendly

took amd a while to figure out that their a64 sales were being cannabilized by lower end 1xx opterons. part of the reason why they're tightly controlling the 1xx opteron supply is due to this.

dave

[matt1]

I must admit, the flow of CPUs to the UK has suddenly increased in the past few days, with reports of more on the way. This statement seems to have reasonable backing. Glad to see Opteron's sticking around.

[metro.cl]

ummm...that's not AMD making the price moves, that's Newegg. If newegg wants to increase their profit margin, that's their prerogative. the price i pay for chips hasn't changed in 1 month.

i am, after all, correct.

dave

mate the laws of supply and demand dont work like that, you can set wich ever price you want but if you say that you are goin to stop prduction, the demand increases then the egg realizes that and then prices go up (because of the expectatives). So finally amd made the prices rise with their statements.

p.d. do you own a store or something like that i still want to buy an opty

[OC Detective]

Er AMD didnt force Newegg to increase their prices! AMD prices (highest possible) to retail are as per those shown on their website, Newegg saw an opportunity to make a fast buck
Oh and AMD never publically came out and said Opterons were being stopped that was down to misinterpretation by certain tech websites. They have however come out and said these websites were wrong - so how you can assign the price increase to AMD is beyond me (whatever the supply/demand dynamics) - its not them making the increased profit from this.
Also for any conspiracy theorists out there it has also not been done so that they can boost unit sales - AMD have put many suppliers on allocation because of supply constraints after a bumper 3rd quarter which is likely to continue this quarter.

[metro.cl]

Er AMD didnt force Newegg to increase their prices! AMD prices (highest possible) to retail are as per those shown on their website, Newegg saw an opportunity to make a fast buck
Oh and AMD never publically came out and said Opterons were being stopped that was down to misinterpretation by certain tech websites. They have however come out and said these websites were wrong - so how you can assign the price increase to AMD is beyond me (whatever the supply/demand dynamics) - its not them making the increased profit from this.
Also for any conspiracy theorists out there it has also not been done so that they can boost unit sales - AMD have put many suppliers on allocation because of supply constraints after a bumper 3rd quarter which is likely to continue this quarter.

mate if there is something i know are the laws of economics, so trust me, the way i described it above is how it works.
I'm studying economics im in 4th year (out of 5) and im pretty good at it.

regards.

[OC Detective]

mate if there is something i know are the laws of economics, so trust me, the way i described it above is how it works.
I'm studying economics im in 4th year (out of 5) and im pretty good at it.

regards.

Whatever you are studying is irrelevant as you clearly stated that "AMD made the prices rise with their statements".
However this is erroneous as AMD never made the statements relating to production stopping the tech websites did and AMD merely corrected them.
As Dave said the prices from AMD have remained unchanged the past month and the only beneficiaries from this are the vendors such as Newegg who seized on the perceived shortfall to pump up prices.
If you want to say that the perceived shortfall meant that the prices increased to the customer due to vendors increasing their prices (I am well aware how the supply/demand dynamic works thanks) then fine I have no argument but thats not what you said - AMD are blameless in this respect.

[dave_graham]

mate if there is something i know are the laws of economics, so trust me, the way i described it above is how it works.
I'm studying economics im in 4th year (out of 5) and im pretty good at it.
regards.

see, you may know economics, but in this particular sector, i run the day to day business that is on the receiving end of all of this. i know when AMD makes prices moves, i know when Newegg, Monarch, Mwave, etc. jack their prices up. I know the actual margin they're making ( > 10 % ) on the parts they sell versus my margin (which is < 3 %) and i know how market demands impact what these vendors can "get away with."

dave

[Piotrsama]

see, you may know economics, but in this particular sector, i run the day to day business that is on the receiving end of all of this. i know when AMD makes prices moves, i know when Newegg, Monarch, Mwave, etc. jack their prices up. I know the actual margin they're making ( > 10 % ) on the parts they sell versus my margin (which is < 3 %) and i know how market demands impact what these vendors can "get away with."

End of Story.

[metro.cl]

Whatever you are studying is irrelevant as you clearly stated that "AMD made the prices rise with their statements".
However this is erroneous as AMD never made the statements relating to production stopping the tech websites did and AMD merely corrected them.
As Dave said the prices from AMD have remained unchanged the past month and the only beneficiaries from this are the vendors such as Newegg who seized on the perceived shortfall to pump up prices.
If you want to say that the perceived shortfall meant that the prices increased to the customer due to vendors increasing their prices (I am well aware how the supply/demand dynamic works thanks) then fine I have no argument but thats not what you said - AMD are blameless in this respect.

if im not wrong (im sure im pretty close to been right) someone at Amd told the inquierer or a retailer (that was told by amd, as i already told you what happened to me with tigerdirect) that there wouldnt be more opteron 14X that upped the price, the mark-up is irrelevant for amd, as they dont get more money, but maybe distributors wanted more and because amd could lower the prices the rose the other end, so finally we are paying more for the same cpus.

As you know it not only the manufacturer who wants money, its all the supply chain and Amd has to keep them happy.

Im not saying im 100% right but you look really close minded (to put it in a polite way)because you just can accept my way of viewing it (this is what they teach you in economics to get more $$$)

[dave_graham]

if im not wrong (im sure im pretty close to been right) someone at Amd told the inquierer or a retailer (that was told by amd, as i already told you what happened to me with tigerdirect) that there wouldnt be more opteron 14X that upped the price, the mark-up is irrelevant for amd, as they dont get more money, but maybe distributors wanted more and because amd could lower the prices the rose the other end, so finally we are paying more for the same cpus.

it most certainly wasn't an AMD insider. More than likely, it was a pissed off retailer or worried distributor that noticed a constrained supply. Listen, i got a notice from AMD regarding 2 things:
1. That part allocations would be tight through the end of the year and into next.
2. that ONLY APPROVED AMD ISVs/VARs would be getting 1xx opteron parts.

That statement doesn't imply any sort of discontinuation of parts.

As you know it not only the manufacturer who wants money, its all the supply chain and Amd has to keep them happy.

yes, but...it's still the supply chain's position to raise their prices as the market bears. AMD, if it were to do that, would destroy any sort of capable margin processing and ASP simply due to the fact that overhead would be ENORMOUS. by establishing a set price ( xxx.xx per thousand units), AMD can keep control of their expenses and income and allow vendors to profit from them. However, never forget that AMD's bottom line is the only thing that matters to them.

Im not saying im 100% right but you look really close minded (to put it in a polite way)because you just can accept my way of viewing it (this is what they teach you in economics to get more $$$)

and what i've learned from actually taking my head out of a text book (to put it in a polite way) is that rules are capricious, theory is ignorant, and that people who actually "do the stuff" are better prepared to handle the problems in the channel. :-)

[TMM]

Hmm. Kind of offtopic, but did anyone else think that maybe these Single Core Opterons are failed 90nm FX57/55s?.They have similar steppings, clock extremely well, and also run hotter then "standard" Athlon64s (san diegos) at the same voltage/clock, hinting that they may use "high performance" transistors like in the FX's. It also explains why AMD aren't stopping production for a year or so. What will be around in ~one year? yeah, FX's that aren't single core, hence probably no more single core optys :p

[dave_graham]

Hmm. Kind of offtopic, but did anyone else think that maybe these Single Core Opterons are failed 90nm FX57/55s?.They have similar steppings, clock extremely well, and also run hotter then "standard" Athlon64s (san diegos) at the same voltage/clock, hinting that they may use "high performance" transistors like in the FX's. It also explains why AMD aren't stopping production for a year or so. What will be around in ~one year? yeah, FX's that aren't single core, hence probably no more single core optys :p

interesting theory. :-)

dave

[biohead]

why would a 'failed' processor work with a different sticker lal

[dave_graham]

why would a 'failed' processor work with a different sticker lal

i think TMM is thinking in terms of what AMD and Intel did with parts that wouldn't bin well or that had cache failures @ the 1mb level. They simply cut the tracings to half the cache and resold them as lower level parts. that being said, TMM's hypothesis would require a more interesting approach to processor development and the like. plausible.

dave

[metro.cl]

it most certainly wasn't an AMD insider. More than likely, it was a pissed off retailer or worried distributor that noticed a constrained supply. Listen, i got a notice from AMD regarding 2 things:
1. That part allocations would be tight through the end of the year and into next.
2. that ONLY APPROVED AMD ISVs/VARs would be getting 1xx opteron parts.

That statement doesn't imply any sort of discontinuation of parts.



yes, but...it's still the supply chain's position to raise their prices as the market bears. AMD, if it were to do that, would destroy any sort of capable margin processing and ASP simply due to the fact that overhead would be ENORMOUS. by establishing a set price ( xxx.xx per thousand units), AMD can keep control of their expenses and income and allow vendors to profit from them. However, never forget that AMD's bottom line is the only thing that matters to them.



and what i've learned from actually taking my head out of a text book (to put it in a polite way) is that rules are capricious, theory is ignorant, and that people who actually "do the stuff" are better prepared to handle the problems in the channel. :-)

hopefully engenieers/doctors/mechanics/etc dont think that theory sucks or try news things without studying really good the theory

regards.

[TMM]

I meant that, for example, FX chips that did not speed bin to the full 2.6/2.8ghz could have their multi's locked upwards, speed binned as 2.2ghz, and be sold as a Opteron 148s. Its is quite possible in my opinion as we have seen failed FXs with half the cache sold as Athlon64 non-FXs before (3500+ 512k claw anyone?).

[Nocturnal]

Dave, when you say "approved" retailer/suppliers, do you mean Newegg and ZZF as well? Or are they not going to be allowed to sell Opterons come January?

[kemist]

TMM, thats true about the 3500+'s but i wouldnt say that the opty's are failed fx's. Like you say i think its just a binning process; A decent amount of opty's can still hit FX like speeds. Its more likely they make the FX/opty's from the same silicon and put the best into the fx's and whatever the highest opty is. For the rest of the procs it isnt crucial how good the processors are (relative to fx) because they can still clock to 2.8g on avg anyway (with volts at least), so they are overkill for 2.2 or whatever frequency AMD wants to set them to. If this is basically what you were trying to say anyway then sorry for repeating it.

Also, need to consider that FX and high opty are much lower volume parts; they only need to bin a small amount of the silicon that high anway, some FX class silicon would have to spill over i would think (think 0540 F_MW).

[Mr_Slinky]

wrong mate newegg about a week ago increased the price of the 148 box opteron from 227usd to 250 usd.

Also im not so sure if this is true i just got a refund from tiger direct saying that they wont get any more opterons from amd so they cant ship mine.

what did you order from tigerdirect i ordered an opty 165 oem and that is why i am asking what you ordered

[OC Detective]

hopefully engenieers/doctors/mechanics/etc dont think that theory sucks or try news things without studying really good the theory

regards.

This wouldnt be close mindedness now would it? After all we are talking about supply/demand dynamics here not rocket science!

BTW I think you will find that as AMD didnt make the statement (corroborated by Dave - so actually you are not pretty close to being right) then they are indeed blameless as I have stated.
Dont believe everything you read in the tech websites!

OH and if engineers/doctors etc didnt try new things without reference to theory then we would still think that the world was flat!

[dave_graham]

Dave, when you say "approved" retailer/suppliers, do you mean Newegg and ZZF as well? Or are they not going to be allowed to sell Opterons come January?

AMD is requiring that everyone who sells the 1xx opterons do so in "bundles." this only pertains to new incoming stock, not existing. i get around that because, well, i'm so freakin' small. :-) I was told that Newegg (and companies of that size, etc.) was going to be cutoff because they were just selling the bare procs. we'll see how this is truly implemented.

dave

[dnottis]

Hmm. Kind of offtopic, but did anyone else think that maybe these Single Core Opterons are failed 90nm FX57/55s?.They have similar steppings, clock extremely well, and also run hotter then "standard" Athlon64s (san diegos) at the same voltage/clock, hinting that they may use "high performance" transistors like in the FX's. It also explains why AMD aren't stopping production for a year or so. What will be around in ~one year? yeah, FX's that aren't single core, hence probably no more single core optys :p

I asked this about a week ago in another thread - its true, they are clearing out the 1M cache left overs. So yes, some are failed FX57s - either way they are FXs and San Diegos for much cheaper. Also, notice how some have great memory controllers, running 1:1 past 300? Those are definitely FXs. Others arent so great, those were probably binned San Diegos.

[ozzimark]

interesting theory. :-)

dave

it's one that a lot of us have known all along, but just didn't really put together the FX's being stopped with the opterons being stopped..

also, i think we'll see the FX-57 continue for a while, seeing how amd hasn't taken the axe to the fx-55 yet :p

[metro.cl]

what did you order from tigerdirect i ordered an opty 165 oem and that is why i am asking what you ordered

hey mate i bought a 146 box opteron it appeared in stock.

But after 10 days or so the refunded me the money becuase amd wouldnt sell them any more opteron (no idea why).

[dave_graham]

hey mate i bought a 146 box opteron it appeared in stock.

But after 10 days or so the refunded me the money becuase amd wouldnt sell them any more opteron (no idea why).

tigerdirect is not an approved AMD ISV. AMD has restricted 1xx processor sales to approved ISVs and VARs only.

dave