Effective Immediately!!

[Kazoo]

Important changes to For Sale / Classfieds - effective Monday, Sep 12th, 2005!

There are new requirements and guidelines that have been introduced, which come into life on Monday, Sep 12th 2005. Full and updated text can be found in Classifieds Rules & Guidelines. Below you can find outlined new changes that have been made:

1. Heatware account is now very strongly recommended by XtremeSystems Forums Staff.
This now becomes a very strong suggestion that's being made not only for the Seller but a Buyer, too. If one doesn't have an active Heatware account, please sign-up here before starting a new thread or making an offer to the Seller. If there's no trading history on that account yet, Ebay feedback is another option. It's up to the Seller to verify Buyer's credentials before closing a transaction.

2. Only The Seller is allowed to create posts in For Sale sections.
Ability to create posts in For Sale threads has been limited to the Seller only. Other members, including potential buyers are no longer able to post in For Sale threads. This means that any offers, price and shipping negotiations or other inquiries by interested parties are to be made through PM or e-mail only! If the Seller has been asked a question about features that have not covered in his initial post, he may update his thread with another post containing this new information.

3. The Seller is allowed to bump his own thread if neccesary.
We allow the Seller to bump his own thread in a reasonable manner. Bumping every 1 hour or so is absolutely not allowed! Common practice would be once in 6-8 hours at the most.

4. The Seller is obligated to inform potential buyers in case item is not available anymore.
This is to be done by creating a "closing post", whether item is sold or otherwise unavailable anymore.

5. Threads that have not been updated for more that 7 days will be removed.
It's in Seller's own interest to check up on his PMs and update his thread accordingly. If for any reason, the Seller's last post in his thread is older than 7 days, it will be assumed that transaction is closed and thread will be automatically removed.

[s7e9h3n]

One question - sometimes buyers ask questions which are simply ignored by the seller. This gives other potential buyers and idea to how responsive a seller may be as well as important information regarding the condition of the item that's for sale. Also, it helps other buyers if they hadn't originally thought of asking that particular question themselves. If potential buyers aren't allowed to post, then it most definately won't help these forums if the sellers are allowed to pick and choose what information they'd like to be public. Just my

[n00b 0f l337]

Yeah thats one of the main reasons I prefer selling here over anandtech and eocf.

[Major]

Anyone that has a concern about an item listed or lack of response from a seller is welcome to PM a mod with that concern. If something needs to be disclosed about an item and the seller will not disclose it then the thread will be removed or I will post it myself

[twiggy]

Anyone that has a concern about an item listed or lack of response from a seller is welcome to PM a mod with that concern. If something needs to be disclosed about an item and the seller will not disclose it then the thread will be removed or I will post it myself

[iS.Terminator]

Important changes to For Sale / Classfieds - effective Monday, Sep 12th, 2005!

There are new requirements and guidelines that have been introduced, which come into life on Monday, Sep 12th 2005. Full and updated text can be found in Classifieds Rules & Guidelines. Below you can find outlined new changes that have been made:

1. Heatware account is now very strongly recommended by XtremeSystems Forums Staff.
This now becomes a very strong suggestion that's being made not only for the Seller but a Buyer, too. If one doesn't have an active Heatware account, please sign-up here before starting a new thread or making an offer to the Seller. If there's no trading history on that account yet, Ebay feedback is another option. It's up to the Seller to verify Buyer's credentials before closing a transaction.

I like these new rules or w/e you call them....

[n00b 0f l337]

See I've never used heat, but I beleive i'm well known enough and enough of the mods here know were i live that its clear I'm not a troll. I'm also always fine with seconding first and stuff...

[s7e9h3n]

Anyone that has a concern about an item listed or lack of response from a seller is welcome to PM a mod with that concern. If something needs to be disclosed about an item and the seller will not disclose it then the thread will be removed or I will post it myself

See, the problem with that is the buyer who PM's a mod has to have enough concern that he'd have to go to those lengths. Also, the mods would have to be Xtremely active to keep up with every item posted. I'm curious though, what's the reason for all these new rules?

[Major]

See, the problem with that is the buyer who PM's a mod has to have enough concern that he'd have to go to those lengths. Also, the mods would have to be Xtremely active to keep up with every item posted. I'm curious though, what's the reason for all these new rules?

There are several reasons for the changes, for one thing there are way too many people using the for sale section for chatting and thread craping. This takes up a lot of the mods time just trying to clean up the threads and responding to complaints. Also with the Heatware being a strong suggestion we are trying to make it safer for all parties in a transaction. And finally, many people don't update there threads with the status of the items, with the 7 day rule we hope to eliminate threads that no longer have items for sale.

Give it a chance guys, we have discussed it at length and feel the changes are positive and will enhance the section.

[s7e9h3n]

There are several reasons for the changes, for one thing there are way too many people using the for sale section for chatting and thread craping. This takes up a lot of the mods time just trying to clean up the threads and responding to complaints. Also with the Heatware being a strong suggestion we are trying to make it safer for all parties in a transaction. And finally, many people don't update there threads with the status of the items, with the 7 day rule we hope to eliminate threads that no longer have items for sale.

Give it a chance guys, we have discussed it at length and feel the changes are positive and will enhance the section.

Now I'm not exactly innocent of making OT conversation in F/S threads, but IMO, they were either harmless or in fun but thread crapping is a totally 'nother subject. I understand that you'd like to keep the threads concise and easy-to-read, but in all honesty, much of the information that buyers gather about an item that is for sale, is from public questions. Personally, I don't mind too much having to browse through a thread to see pertinant information, and I imagine that most others feel the same way. Here's another question: What happens when buyer replies first, saying that he'll purchase the item, only to have the seller sell it to someone who came in later who was either a "friend" or offers more money? How would we know about that? Are the mod's monitoring the PM's associated with the F/S section? I'm not saying what you guys have decided is exactly a bad thing, but I definately can think of how this may cause problems for many whom frequent this f/s forum. After all, everything's worth a try......

[Kazoo]

No one is reading PMs except the intended recipients.

[twiggy]

I dont like the idea of not being able to post in FS threads but if its hard for you guys to keep up with it now then it'll prob get worse as s7e9h3n said you guys will be getting more PM's to force info.

If OT posts in FS threads are really getting out of hand then hand out temp bans from the FS section. Just my 2 cents.

[HiJon89]

I think it would be a good idea for a seller to have admin priveleges over his/her FS thread so that they can delete any posts they feel are OT/thread crapping. I think this would help ease the work of the mods and also please the sellers. As a safety precaution you could make the posts still visible to mods so that they can undelete any posts they feel shouldn't have been deleted.

[n00b 0f l337]

Oooohh thats a good idea man.

[Ugly n Grey]

Good thoughts all, but as Major pointed out, we talked about this for a while, let's give it a try. I buy stuff outta there myself so I want this to work too...

[s7e9h3n]

I think it would be a good idea for a seller to have admin priveleges over his/her FS thread so that they can delete any posts they feel are OT/thread crapping. I think this would help ease the work of the mods and also please the sellers. As a safety precaution you could make the posts still visible to mods so that they can undelete any posts they feel shouldn't have been deleted.

:thumbsup:

Good thoughts all, but as Major pointed out, we talked about this for a while, let's give it a try. I buy stuff outta there myself so I want this to work too...

But shouldn't the sellers/buyers have a say in this? I understand that the admins have needs too, but I'm still left a little wondering about why these rules are being implemented yet I haven't seen anything noticebly problematic.....

[Major]

:thumbsup:


But shouldn't the sellers/buyers have a say in this? I understand that the admins have needs too, but I'm still left a little wondering about why these rules are being implemented yet I haven't seen anything noticebly problematic.....

The only reason you have not seen seeing anything is because we have been deleting the posts of people thread craping and chatting in the section and trying to keep the forum clean of such posts.

The members have a say and we are open to suggestions but we need to implement this change and see how things go.

[MUCHO]

With respect to the mods I strongly disagree with this new rule that only the original poster can make posts in a FS thread.

The last forum that went to these rules effectively killed it as a marketplace to buy/trade. Extremeoverclockers once had a great trading forum, now its practically dead, because of this same rule.

A better way in my opinion to police the forum is to have a rule that thread crapping is an automatic 3 day ban. This works well over at [H] Forums. I see nothing wrong with chatting in a FS thread myself so long as it is on topic.

Finally - it protects the forum buyers when there is a troll or even potential troll. This works on several levels. A known troll can be called out, or a troll will have a greater difficulty "selling" the same item to multiple people.

Just my thoughts - based on my trading history and experience.

Heat under MUCHO

[bachus_anonym]

Here's another question: What happens when buyer replies first, saying that he'll purchase the item, only to have the seller sell it to someone who came in later who was either a "friend" or offers more money? How would we know about that?

Actually, although some may think that "dibs" placed in thread or "I was first PMing..." means everything, it does not. It is still up to the seller to actually pick whatever offer he feels is more beneficial to him. Some may hate it, but that's how it is. You can't force the seller to honor that and it's totally up to him who he decided to sell the item. Plain and simple. You haven't known that before, when posting in threads was allowed, and you will not be able to know that now. Nothing really changes as you have not had a 100% guarantee about what actually seller told you about who was first...

One question - sometimes buyers ask questions which are simply ignored by the seller. This gives other potential buyers and idea to how responsive a seller may be as well as important information regarding the condition of the item that's for sale. Also, it helps other buyers if they hadn't originally thought of asking that particular question themselves. If potential buyers aren't allowed to post, then it most definately won't help these forums if the sellers are allowed to pick and choose what information they'd like to be public. Just my

New rules will stress importance of paying very close attention to purchase decision. If person is really interested and knows what is looking for then PM is to find information he needs. If he doesn't like what he hears then he doesn't buy it... Seller then can put this information in the thread to make everyone aware. If he decides not to, then it's not really a problem yet. Someone else will PM him with same question and back out after the answer, so maybe then seller will figure out that he needs to disclose some more information.
We will still be monitoring threads, watching what seller posts there and waiting for PMs with some VERY (I mean VERY) strong concerns. That doesn't mean that members are feel to PM mods about every item for sale because they feel that somethiong may be wrong. Only VERY strong doubts will be addressed.

We needed to unload some work of For Sale and make it a bit more self-running. That way we will be able to concentrate on other areas, that will often need a lot more of moderator's attention.

[shuRe]

what about doing is democratically, rather than paternalistic, and do a vote?

[Ackbar]

I didn't think there was necessarily a problem with the old system. I guess if this is better I won't complain though, but I've always liked the idea about gauging buyer interest before making an offer. It helps to get an idea what the going price is.

[bachus_anonym]

what about doing is democratically, rather than paternalistic, and do a vote?

Not everything has to be up for democratic vote Sometimes, decissions need to be made within Staff members only. We needed to make changes somewhere so we could concentrate our efforts in more sensitive areas. In the eyes of the Staff, For Sale needed to be reformed, therefore decission was made to go ahead with new Rules.
I hope you guys understand. I don't think it's gonna make anyone's life harder. We wouldn't try to make your stay on XS painful. I bet, this is gonna work and make moderating Forums more streamlined as before.

[MUCHO]

Not everything has to be up for democratic vote Sometimes, decissions need to be made within Staff members only. We needed to make changes somewhere so we could concentrate our efforts in more sensitive areas. In the eyes of the Staff, For Sale needed to be reformed, therefore decission was made to go ahead with new Rules.
I hope you guys understand. I don't think it's gonna make anyone's life harder. We wouldn't try to make your stay on XS painful. I bet, this is gonna work and make moderating Forums more streamlined as before.

Its not my forum - if the staff members want to effectively kill this area then they should just kill it. Adopting these new rules is just a slow painful death anyways.

[bachus_anonym]

Adopting these new rules is just a slow painful death anyways.

Why do you think so? I do not share that impression at all. Can you elaborate more than what you said few posts above, please?
Also, you need to understand that we do not really have and never had as much traffic in For Sale section as on e.g. [H], looking at number of threads. Also, some items are a lot more difficult to sell here than anywhere else and some will sell here quicker than anywhere else. It will be OK and i don't think it will be a disaster.

[boshuter]

With respect to the mods I strongly disagree with this new rule that only the original poster can make posts in a FS thread.

The last forum that went to these rules effectively killed it as a marketplace to buy/trade. Extremeoverclockers once had a great trading forum, now its practically dead, because of this same rule.

A better way in my opinion to police the forum is to have a rule that thread crapping is an automatic 3 day ban. This works well over at [H] Forums. I see nothing wrong with chatting in a FS thread myself so long as it is on topic.

Finally - it protects the forum buyers when there is a troll or even potential troll. This works on several levels. A known troll can be called out, or a troll will have a greater difficulty "selling" the same item to multiple people.

Just my thoughts - based on my trading history and experience.

Heat under MUCHO

Well 60 heat refs doesn't get you much for "experience", lol. I don't see anything wrong with this new rule, it's certainly worth trying. As to what works well over at [H]..... you have to be kidding, that's one of the worst fs forums for thread crapping and trolling there is. The only thing I would do differently is to make a link to your heatware mandatory for all sellers.

Just my thoughts - based on my trading experience... Heat under boshuter