The LCD Buyers Guide

[Turok]

I'm not saying not to love your 24-inch monitor. But facts are facts, and I'm only posting the facts. Playing in high resolution on a large screen indeed can increase the gaming experience by making you feel more immersed, but 99% of users don't think 23+ inch screen are great for gaming. That is myth not fact. No professional review has ever rated a 23+ inch, or even 20-inch monitor for that matter, over a fast 17 or 19-inch TN panel in terms of gaming performance.

Salahuddin, I think you're exagerating a bit
Yes, 20", 23", and 24" monitors are a lot slower than a lot of the 17" and 19" monitors, but it's still playable with FPS games.
Sometimes those reviews make a LCD look like cr@%$ if it has one flaw.

Right now I wouldnt buy any 20", 23", or 24" LCD not because they are cr@%$, but because of the new LCDs coming up. It will just make your new 2405fpw look like cr@%$

[Salahuddin]

Sorry Turok,

It seems what I wrote could easily be interpreted differently than what I meant. Where I said:

"99% of users don't think 23+ inch screen are great for gaming"

I meant to say,

"It is NOT true that 99% of users think 23+ inch screen are great for gaming."

I was just trying to counter the claim in the previous post which said that 99% of users thought large LCDs were great for gaming. I apologize if it came across otherwise. Otherwise I think the rest of my post was factual.

And just so you know I'm not some geek opposed to large screen LCDs... if I didn't play all types of games, I would prefer a 23+ inch LCD for some the RPGs I like. However, I'd prefer the S-IPS panel in the Hewlitt Packard, Apple Cinema or BenQ over the PVA panel used in the Dell.



Addendum:

Confirmation that I'm always right (visual confirmation of the ACTUAL response time on the Dell 2405FPW compared to the Samsung 243T (which is also a slow monitor, but found to be much more repsonsive than the Dell)):

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=900484


Oh, and check out this brand new 8ms 21-inch widescreen monitor with HDCP support! Only $599 at BestBuy in the US!

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=960883

[Turok]

Oh, and check out this brand new 8ms 21-inch widescreen monitor with HDCP support! Only $599 at BestBuy in the US!

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=960883

That monitor looks so nice
I still need to buy a monitor, and its most likely going to be a 8ms 20" or 21" Widescreen VA panel with Display Port compatible. Cant buy a larger screen because of money, and because I dont think my x850xt will be able to handle newer games with a larger LCD.
Ill wait for reviews, more 8ms LCDs, and a bit of a price drop when more competitors show up with 8ms widescreen TFTs
Ill stay with the 8ms LCD until SED widescreen monitors are released in 2007

EDIT:


More info at the Gateway site
http://www.gateway.com/programs/lcd/

[Tibu]

OMFG... that means goodbye to the $400 i just spent cuz of the stooopid HDCP... Good times; i sure pick a great time to upgrade to LCD.

[Salahuddin]

Also, check out this 24-inch 6ms PVA panel by Acer?

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000757060121/

Don't get too hyped though, recently an 8ms PVA panel was shown to have MORE afterglow than a 16ms S-IPS panel (so I'd wait for some reviews):

http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...come-back.html

That 6ms PVA panel in the Acer is made by Samsung and will also be in their new 19-inch monitor, the Samsung Syncmaster 970P. This is a 19-inch monitor and is to be the successor of the 193P+.

Also, just thought I'd re-mention the Samsung 940MW... this is a WIDESCREEN 8ms 19-inch TN panel. Native resolution is 1440 x 900.


BTW, Tibu, can't you still return your monitor? With all the new stuff apparently coming to the market, maybe you should ditch the 930B and get a Hyundai L90D+ or BenQ FP91G+. These monitors are less expensive, better quality and just as responsive. In fact, I just found out the FP91G+ uses an A+ panel where as most LCDs use B panels or worse... this grade determines the homogeniety of the backlight (check this link out to find out more about panel grades: http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...d-pixels.html). Should save you $100 bucks. Then 1-2 years down the road, get that amazing monitor with HDCP and everything you've been waiting for. I think that is what I'm going to do. I'm sick of waiting lol.

[Danne980]

I'm not familiar with the Samsung monitor you have, but looking it up on www.prad.de, I see it is a 16ms PVA panel. That is the same panel-type used in the Dell 2405FPW. Its fine if you don't notice any afterglow. There are people out there that don't notice afterglow on a 25ms PVA panel. And the fact is, the more you play on any monitor, the less you "notice" the afterglow. This, however, doesn't change the facts. There IS afterglow... and competitive gamers will be disadvantaged on panels whether they see afterglow or not, simply because the monitor's ability to react to motion is less. Even on a 20-inch 16ms S-IPS panel I tested (Viewsonic V201S), which has fairly low afterglow and is much more responsive than a 16ms PVA panel, I noticed an instantaneous improvement in my first-person shooter gaming when moving to an 8ms TN panel. Plus, remember that response time gets worse the larger the panel becomes, so a 24-inch 16ms panel is less responsive than that exact same panel in a 19-inch or smaller display. And this all goes without even mentioning frames per second (FPS)... you can look up yourself what the maximum FPS achievable on a 16ms screen is (its 62 FPS). That is the best case scenario and its fact.

At the end of the day, you can disagree with what you feel is better for gaming, but you can't disagree with the responsiveness of the panel. What panel you prefer depends on what type of game you're playing too. If you like MMORPGs or single-player FPSs, where you prefer the immersion of a big screen over being competitive and you don't demand really fast frame rates... than I can totally see the enjoyment a 16ms 24-inch panel would bring. However, if you're competitive, prefer gaming at fast frame rates, and depend on your reaction time (as in multiplayer FPS and strategy games)... you will be limited by your monitor.

In the end, the industry is pushing LCDs with lower response times precisely for this reason... if 99% of people found 16ms PVA panels perfect for gaming, there would be no point nor profit in doing this.

Sorry if my point got lost because of my bad english. The point was, i know that there are lcd´s superior to mine when messuring response time. But after i tryed it (playing fps pretty much on pretty high lvl) i didnt see much gain in ordering another 8ms or lower screen. And for me i would buy this screen again because of alround it in my oppinion beats the smaller screens due to screen size and resolution. Playing world of warcraft 1920*1080 is very nice!
I just thaught you bashed pretty hard on the big lcd´s i think they have thier place.
And to my post about 99% maybe it was stupid to use a number but i think most ppl are going to be satisfied with one of the new big lcd´s, even at fps games.

Nice thread btw!

[Salahuddin]

Sorry if my point got lost because of my bad english... I just thaught you bashed pretty hard on the big lcd´s i think they have thier place.

You're right Danne and I apologize too if I came down hard on large screen LCDs. That wasn't my intent either... forgive me if I said something earlier that made it come out that way. I try to be objective but I'll be the first to admit I'm far from perfect. And don't be sorry about your english... its pretty good

[bypolar]

Polyview/CMV

Are these any Good?? The Specs Look Decent.
19"

[Sz1hart]

Hey, if you guys need any information about the 2405 then just pm me or ask away. I just got one of the 2 monitors that I order. Got it for a great price so I couldn't help it. I was planning on ordering 3 but yea...since HDCP and all the crap...

I don't know why people worry about backlight so much, unless you watch movies alot on your pc. I may have little backlight(didn't check for that long), For me everything about this monitor is great. I well be getting another lcd soon with HDCP or a Plasma(huge discount).

Sorry but I don't have a DC so there won't be any picture anytime soon. I may end up buying one soon though. This is my first monitor and well this is just my opinion, while some may notice ghosting and all the, I don't. Though at first the mouse movenmet felt somewhat slow then again its alot bigger screen then my 17crt.

[F6Hawk]

I am bidding on one as we speak. How is it? I am leery of the 12ms response time. Does it perform well watching DVDs? Gaming?

I am trying to get one for around $750, how much did you guve for yours, and from where?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

F6

[Nagorak]

I just wanted to add my own experiences with these monitors. I have used both an L90D+ and a VP191B which I purchased recently. I compared the two at the same time by connecting them to both of my graphics card and running them in clone mode. I am actually writing this review using the VP191B right now.

Unfortunately, while not being a bad monitor, In my opinion the VP191B is very overrated. The reviews at sites such as Tom's Hardware Guide would lead you to believe it performs better than TN panels. This is simply not true. The color accuracy is certainly better using the VP191B, and you can enable font smoothing without the text becoming tinged greenish or reddish (a problem you will run into on a TN monitor like the L90D+).

The problem is in games using the VP191B there is very visible ghosting. It is quite noticeable and very distracting. The ghosting is apparent during transitions between darker colors (dark gray or black) and lighter areas. I tested out a few games and you can see it in Guild Wars, and it is just terrible in Doom 3 (the game is very "busy" with a lot of lines on the walls and all of them blur/ghost when moving). I think you could play games on this monitor, but I would not recommend it unless you are not very sensitive visually (if you're the type that can't tell the difference between a CRT running at 60Hz and 100 Hz then maybe you won't notice). Other than that I think you will be very disappointed in games.

With the L90D+ the ghosting is much less bad. It may exist, but I really can't even see it. The color accuracy is not as good so font smoothing is unusable, but other than that the color is fine. In fact, the colors are actually more vibrant and the dark level is lower than on the VP191B. Movies look fine on the L90D+, and they also look fine on the VP191B, although the lower brightness level of the L90D+ is a small bonus.

Overall I would strongly recommend against buying the VP191B, not just because of its performance in games, but also because it is so much more expensive than the L90D+ and other comparable panels like the BenQ FP91G+ or VX924. If the price were equal then you could weigh the trade offs between the VP191B and a different panel, but considering the price is $100-$150 higher, the VP191B is simply not worth it, especially if games are important to you. The L90D+ on the other hand is an awesome panel, with the exception of a little loss in color accuracy, it performs very well in games and looks damn good too.

Also, while games play decently on the L90D+ which I believe is rated 8ms (although the ratings are kind of inaccurate in themselves), I would not consider anything slower for games. I really feel that a 12ms monitor will probably perform very poorly based on my experience with the VP191B. Anything much slower than the L90D+ may suffer from some pretty bad ghosting.

[corvus_corax]

What do you think about Asus in LCD monitors?:
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l...42&modelmenu=1

Thanks!!

[Danne980]

You're right Danne and I apologize too if I came down hard on large screen LCDs. That wasn't my intent either... forgive me if I said something earlier that made it come out that way. I try to be objective but I'll be the first to admit I'm far from perfect. And don't be sorry about your english... its pretty good

One more that is satisfied with his 24" samsung panel display

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/dell2405/index.htm

I have the same conclusion about it as he does. My conclusion is that very few ppl has seen ghosting on that panel. And the ones that have probably is "pros" and for the everyday gamer its just excelent.

/Danne

[Nagorak]

One more that is satisfied with his 24" samsung panel display

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/dell2405/index.htm

I have the same conclusion about it as he does. My conclusion is that very few ppl has seen ghosting on that panel. And the ones that have probably is "pros" and for the everyday gamer its just excelent.

/Danne

I think anyone who is worried about it will probably be able to tell. If you look at the user reviews at Newegg.com you'll see many of them think the VP191B is just fine, but when I got it I immediately was aware of the fairly bad ghosting. A lot of people aren't very perceptive, I'm not sure if that is a blessing or a curse.

Those of you who are considering getting a larger/slower LCD panel might honestly want to consider going into your local Fry's, Best Buy or whatever and seeing how some slower panels operate. At my local Fry's they had a large LCD hooked up to a computer playing UT2004. Trying to play on it literally made me sick to my stomach.

My advice is to try out the panel (or a similar one based on type/response time) and compare it to some others locally before you lay down serious money. If you can compare it to a VX924 or Hyundai L90D+. If you can't tell the difference then I guess it's all good, if you can then trust me you won't want to get the larger/slower panel (it will not even be an option, you will not want to play games on it if you can perceive the ghosting).

[Sz1hart]

Sorry been busy with some school projects and haven't had time to visit here much, I haven't use the monitor as much as I would have though. Instead i'm using my 17" sony, the reason for this is because I want to have a lower res and as of right now its fine(haven't try scaling the 2405). I'm moving upstairs(hopefully soon), so I should have more room to set everything up. Just got the z5500 and don't have any outlets left to plug them in.

The monitor is great, though I haven't game much(or any for that matter) so I don't really know about ghosting. Great monitor, I have some backlight though I don't notice it much, I may replace it since I'm still within the 21days(or at least I hope). If you are the type of person who plays game in the dark without any light on then you'll be glad that you bought it though dell, however, since I use my with the lights on then its fine. I'll see if I have any time later, if I do then I'll install Guilds War and Half Life 2(the only recent pc games that I have). Both games contain a fair amount of dark areas so I'll let you known.

I don't have any other lcd to compare it to at the time being(besides a sony laptop), I plan on getting 2 more 19" for the sides or a 24" Sony CRT.

Brought a camera from bb, but return it because I'm looking for an all in one so don't have pictures yet. Also heard that dell is coming out with some new model soon(don't know when) which is more "future proof" so if you can hold out.

[MaxxxRacer]

man this guide keeps getting better and better. Props to you guys.

[JoeBar]

Just wanting to add my opinion about my LG 1980Q monitor. Coming from a 25ms MVA 19' monitor i was a bit sceptical about it's performance regarding blacks and generally its colour reproduction. However reality was better than i thought!
Blacks are very deep and colours are very good for a TN panel (i'm not missing my MVA panel ), also 2D quality is top notch! As for ghosting this is out of the question in 99% of the cases. The ice in the cake of course is its design though!
Last but not least its backed up with a 0 pixel on site warranty!

[bmac11]

glad I came on here before ordering a lcd.. i want me a 2005FPW!!! Hopefully some coupons come out soon! Nice guide!

[bugeyes]

Yes, thats right, I'm asking about a monitor that has 930b in its name but not the Samsung 930b, rather the viewsonic vp930b - I have read that this monitor will possibly be replacing the vp191b. The only difference on paper I see is that the newer viewsonic's panel has a 1000:1 contrast ratio rather than the 191b's 800:1.
But I have learned to be suspicious of "claims" about LCD monitor performance from manufacturers. Does any one own one or have any insights about it? It seems to new to have any professional reviews out about it yet.
Viewsonic vp930b
I was looking at possibly getting the vp191b but that might turn out to be a bad move if this one is the same in most respects and maybe better in others.

What monitor did you get KeithM?
I'm looking to buy a Veiwsonic VP930B and would like to hear peoples opinions about this monitor especialy gaming and watching movies.....

[KeithM]

What monitor did you get KeithM?
I'm looking to buy a Veiwsonic VP930B and would like to hear peoples opinions about this monitor especialy gaming and watching movies.....

I bought and tried a viewsonic vp930b. It was my first LCD purchase after having a 17" samsung CRT for a few years now. I thought it did well in games. There was some motion blur when I played a mod for Battlefield 1942 on it, but only when I would quickly turn the soldiers head. It would be gone instantly the second I slowed down or stopped. Also note that I was not able to play in the monitor's native res. so this may have been a factor that may have added to any blur. I really think you're going to have some motion blur during sudden movement on just about any LCD. It's just the state of the technology today. If you are really only going to be 90% of the time playing games I have heard good things about the samsung 940b. The 940b is a TN panel so it's only 6 bit but I think a claimed 8ms response rate is supposed to be faster on a TN panel than on an 8 bit VA panel like the vp930b uses(not sure though). The colors on a 6 bit panel should be more than good enough for gaming. Not sure about it for movies though. Anyway, here's a review a guy wrote up on the samsung 940b over at http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=974748

I never tried movies on my vp930b. I did end up sending the monitor back for a refund. It came with one stuck bright white pixel and the 2 bottom corners had some definitely noticeable backlight bleeding. But the stuck pixel was near the bottom left corner so it didn't bother me too much and I could only see the backlight bleeding if the screen was totally dark(which is not often for normal computer use) so I was willing to live with that.

What I was NOT willing to live with was how text looked on the vp930b. I had, had VERY little experience with LCD screens prior to purchasing the vp930b. I thought the text looked very jagged or blocky. I don't know if it is just that monitor in particular or if text doesn't look too smoothly formed on any 19" LCD monitors due to their rather large 0.294 pixel pitch. From some comparison pictures of text I saw on some french website I tend to think it might be a combintation of both. And yes, I had the monitor in native resolution AND I tried cleartype on and off, no appreciable difference.

So I am on the hunt again for a good monitor. And I am starting to consider myself lucky that the vp930b didn't work out. For work purposes, I've been thinking about getting a bigger LCD with a 1600x1200 resolution anyway - more screen real estate. This would mean 20" or 21". I had been looking at the Samsung 214T a lot recently. But then, only yesterday I saw the newest 20.1" viewsonic vp2030b being sold on Dell's website. I'm guessing this monitor and it's larger sister the vp2130b(a 21.3" version) JUST came out because there is NOTHING out there about them yet. These montiors seem to be bigger screen versions of the vp930b. They have the same 1000:1 contrast ratio and they claim the same 8ms grey to grey response time(and these 2 newest ones also claim a black-white-black response time of 16ms - the vp930b only claims a 20ms bwb response time!)

Because the vp2030b is a 20.1" monitor with a 1600x1200 resolution, it has a pixel pitch of around 0.255. I am hopeful that this much finer pixel pitch than is possible on a 19" LCD will produce nicer, smoother looking text. This would give me the best of both worlds, large screen area for being more productive and a good responsive panel for gaming. I'm going to be watching for any additional news of these newest monitors closely.

[beta67]

Ok Im stuck between these monitors. I went ahead and compared them next to eachother have a look!!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...SubCategory=20

I like the new 922, and it's in the same price range as the VP930b

I want a monitor that won't ghost or blur on high demand games, or dvds. I watch alot of movies on comp. I don't do professional editing or anything like that but I want a lcd that will hold up for more than 2 years and go with technology. I read that the VP930b has a bad X lighting problem and I read that the VP191b doesn't play video's good at all. Anyone have personal experience? Any suggesitions or comparatives. Thanks alot in advance.

[Delirious]

I have the vp191b, for games there is no ghosting but there is a slight blur with very rapid movements in certain lighting. Honestly it doesnt bother.

As for DVD's i dont see anything wrong with it.

[bugeyes]

Thanks for your comments guys, much apreciated.

As you can guess from my sig I do use photoshop quite regularly so an 8 bit panel is a must for me, It looks as if the VP930 is the best panel for photoshop and gaming so I might give it a try.... I've been using a 15" LCD (6bit) for 2 years now witch also has 0.294 pixel pitch so this shouldn't worry me.

[Delirious]

I use my panel for photoshop alot also, while im happy with it its not quite up to par with my calibrated crt as far as contrast goes.

The only time you will really notice it is when there are subtle graduations between light and dark, it might look a little banded.

[Mikael4a]

Is there enough info out there to update the guide with the Viewsonic 930 and Samsung 970P?

Because I have to decide witch one to buy. So does anyone have any opinions about these two?