Need some help

[Sz1hart]

Hi there,


UPDATED: 7/15/05

ok this should be what I'm looking at(of the 2 choose one)...

Intel Pentium D Dual Core 820 http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...e=pricegrabber

Asus P5WD2 Premium
http://www.xpcgear.com/asusp5wd2p.html

Hitachi 500GB Hard Drive
http://www.onsale.com/onsale/shop/de...sp?dpno=570411, can anyone tell me about this site?
Maybe this one, if I don't get the Hitachi
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...sterid=3660409

SilverStone SST-TJ03
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...AFFIL=FRG&NR=1

Turbo-Cool 850 SSI
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/produc...hp?show=T85SSI

BFG GeForce 7800 GTX
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/P...furbished=&fe=

Plextor PX-716AL(Hopefully this is the one thats SATA)
http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Plext...iter,__7731108
Also...may get a dvd-rom and was wondering if LightScribe drives are worth the money.

OCZ Technology 1GB PC2-6400 DDR2
http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__OCZ_T..._Kit,__8523605
Newegg has these, but not in a kit for about $95. Should I get the kit or get 2 sticks then run them in dual channel mode?

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Gamer
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...sterid=1551871

Sleeving
http://xpcgear.com/carbonsleeve4.html
http://xpcgear.com/12carbonsleeve.html
http://xpcgear.com/3heatshrblk.html

Filter
http://www.frozencpu.com/ffa-01.html
or...
http://www.frozencpu.com/ffa-09.html

AS5
http://www.frozencpu.com/thr-17.html

Arctic Silver® ArctiClean
http://www.frozencpu.com/thr-19.html

C4 NGen
http://www.cshyde.com/Excess%20Inv%20Sale.htm

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_g...sterid=3191290 ?????should I get it?????

and others...

Or everything listed above but with these changes...

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+
http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__AMD_A...ssor,__9157342

DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR
http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__DFI_L...oard,__7712977

and some other kind of ram...I think my HyperX should work.

This is just as of now...I may wait for the XFI, Ultra/Fudo, umm...other stuff

Remember now, I mostly want to make this future proof for as long as I can.

Thanks alot for all the help

[IYP]

For all of your new computer needs
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=61554

and about the OCing you may find this useful if you decide to make the right choice and go AMD
http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=327

WELCOME TO XS!

[Turok]

For waht are you going to use this PC?
Gaming, aplication, multytasking... ?

Case: Lian-Li is the best in quality, hands down. There isnt any other case manufacturer that makes cases as good as Lian-Li.

Right now, an A64 solution looks like a better deal
(especially if you are a gamer, or want to run SLI, or want a cheaper solution)
CPU:
A64 Dual cores are awesome in peformance and keep up in multytasking
A64 Single cores are a bit cheaper and use the same socket as Dual cores. The FX series is the best for gaming right now, but it would be better to go straight to dual core CPUs

Mobo: a DFI nF4 Ultra-D or SLI. Best motherboard ever

Memory: maybe some OCZ VX Gold DDR 500 or some G Skill DDR 500 at CAS 2

HDD: get a WD 74Gb Raptor 10000 RPM. If you want more storage, get another one and conect them in RAID. These hard drives are fast, and they are'nt even SATA II. When they start to release SATA II hard drives at 10000 RPMs, then you can upgrade if you buy the DFI nF4 motehrboard.

GPU: I would wait until the g70 Ultra and r520 releases. When they releasem prices could drop even more.

Sound Card: the ebst right now is the Creative Audigy 2 ZS, BUT I would wait and see how the Creative X-Fi cards really peform when they release

Drive: This Plextor drive is awesome LINK
Its the only drive I know that runs on SATA



OCing: The DFI nF4 is one of the best motherboards in OCing capabilities.
To OC on a A64, try to maintain tight timmings on your ram, raise your FSB slowly and test with Memtest (its on the DFI nF4 BIOS) and check for stability. If you lose stability, raise the voltage on the hardware you OCed. You do this until the system cant pass a limit without going unstable. Try to feed less voltage as possible. It could kill something in your system. If somethign is unstable, feed it voltage, if it doesnt fix it, dont feed more.

[Judaeus Apella]

My advice is don't ask people for their own opinion. You'll feel more confident and get the computer you wanted if you learn about each component by asking lots of general questions and doing research. Everyone in here likes a different part for a different reason and personal likes and dislikes. Most of the people in this forum have learned this way, including me, and that’s the only way you'll build a computer you'll be satisfied with.

Also, the more you learn the more places you find to buy hard to find components on the internet, like high powered fans, water cooling parts, special order parts, etc.

I think the best places I've found so far are:
www.newegg.com
www.performance-pcs.com
www.frozencpu.com
www.sidewindercomputers.com
www.monarchcomputer.com
www.chumbo.com

Cooling:
There are actually a few parts that are unbeatable on any level, such as Delta fans which you can get at sidewindercomputers.com and the Thermalright CPU heatsinks XP-90 and XP90C. The reason the Deltas are the best, is because if you tame them with a fan controller, then they can push plenty of air on lower settings and still remain pretty quiet, or you can turn them up for higher performance at the cost of noise while your gaming. There’s no difference between the XP-120 and the 90's, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you flip the fan around on these heatsinks, you can lower your processor temp by a few extra degrees on top of what it can already do normally with the fan installed normally.

System Ram:
The newer mushkin Redline system ram has been causing a lot of static lately on the overclocking boards, and is a great product depending on what your needs are, so that’s definitely something to check out. Ram with TCCD and TCC5 chips are also a good choice for performance and overclocking.

Processors:
For streaming video and media entertainment, then Intel is what you want. For gaming then AMD is what you want. If gaming is what you're after, and you want a fast CPU, don't spend the money on the FX-55. I almost got that processor, but then I discovered that there’s only a slight difference in performance between that and the AMD 4000+ Sand Diego, and the 4000+ SD costs about $400 less! Besides, games these days run mostly off of your video card, so that’s what you want to put most of the money into, that and and some good cooling solutions. If you don't believe me, talk to a video game producer and they'll talk specs till your ears ring. As for the dual cores, unless your a programmer or a modeler, theres no real reason to invest in this... unless your super paranoid about your computer being compatible in the future, but by the time that day comes you'll be ready to build a new system. As for dual processors, theres no reason to do that unless again you're rendering models or you're a programmer, or running a server. Also, unless your needs involve a lot of media entertainment and streaming video, then don't get Pentium. They've barely put a cent into R&D since PIII and have been recycling the same technology for years, just pushing it farther and pumping more juice through it, causing it to run hotter and hotter. The dual core prescotts are gonna run so hot you can fry and egg on them. Don't give Intel your money, they'll just laugh all the way to the bank.

If you don't beleive me, read here about it: http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=341 This article is unfinished so please don't spread it around or post it anywhere else until it's announced that it's done. I'm planning a topic event with Liquid3D in this forum, on this article. That goes for the rest of you.

Cases:
There’s a lot of good quality cases out there too. My favs are Silverstone, Lian-li, Thermaltake, and Coolermaster. By all means, look at other companies. If you plan on constantly working on your system or upgrading it every few months or less, then get a case that’s made of steel on the interior as aluminum doesn't hold up and starts to wear down and bend. If you want something light for lanparties, then go for aluminum which is also better for conducting heat away from your components.

Video Cards:
This really depends on how much you want to spend, verses what kind of games you play. For the newest games, you’re going to have to spend a little extra cash. If you’d like to try and save a little, then your best option is the nVidea Geforce 6800 Ultra. The best available is the BFGR68256UOC, by BFG. You can get it at Chumbo for $429.99. That card’s hardware is overclocked, giving it some extra speed in ram and processing compared to other Ultras. You can overclock it even farther with water cooling if you wish too and some great scores. If you can spend more, then you can go with the new Geforce 7800, although it may not be worth the price to many people until the 7800 Ultra comes out, forcing a price drop on the 7800’s. I’ve been hearing that the 7800’s when overclocked are wiping the floor with a lot of SLi set ups, so if your thinking about spending even more money on a SLi system, than this may be a better option. As for right now, there’s no difference between AGP and PCI-E if you compare the same exact card in both its versions of AGP and PCI-E. Unless your going with the Geforce 7800, there’s no real reason to go with PCI-E, unless you want to pay an extra $100 or more for bragging rights.

PSU:
There’s a lot of great PSU’s out there. Just make sure you get one that’s bout 500-550 or more if you’re building gaming system with a 6800 Ultra or 7800 video card. Make sure you get Active PFC, and yes there is actually a difference. They do run more efficiently with Active PFC, than with Passive PFC.

Mouse:
I’ve been hearing a lot about the diamondback gaming mouse, but I personally think the Logitech MX518 is better. It has more buttons, is more comfortable, has the same dpi, the sensor never shuts off, and it costs less.

Screen:
Ignore the trend of thin LCD screens, and get a good CRT. Yes CRT’s require more space, but they have higher resolutions, cost less, and perform well with fast paced movement making them the best for gaming and… everything else. A good quality LCD is expensive, doesn’t support the higher resolutions, and can’t handle fast paced movement causing blurs on the screen, which give me a splitting head ache. This is a great place to start:

http://neoseeker.pricegrabber.com/se...sterid=2401317
http://neoseeker.pricegrabber.com/se...asterid=457620

You can start a new search here: http://neoseeker.pricegrabber.com/se...php/page_id=15


For my needs, which involves not only gaming but working on a retail game project I’m part of which includes large format digital photo editing, modeling, rendering, and testing tech demos, I'm building the system below:

[[XC] leviathan18]

disagree with the crt>lcd i think a good 17 or 19 lcd kicks crts and they look like 1000 times better.

amd dual core solution > intel dual core solution in any scenario.
ram well hard to say tccd bh5 utt redline vx gskill geil one
psu that psu is a monster it will last for several years imo
graphic card nice choice but if you can wait maybe ati comes with something better
mobo well that one is the best for intel and for amd dfi
cooling big typhoon or xp120
hdd:hitachi sataII ncq 300MBPS 250gb (true sataII) or the new raptor version coming soon
sound card creative audigy 2 platinium zs or xfi when it comes out
dvd burners check anandtech they have a round up

and WELCOME TO XS you have come to the best place 4 help

edit LIAN LI case like the 1200 or 2000 are awesome

[Judaeus Apella]

disagree with the crt>lcd i think a good 17 or 19 lcd kicks crts and they look like 1000 times better.

This is exactly why they sell, because they LOOK a 1000 times better, but most people don't compare their actual visual performance to CRT's which cannot be beat on any level. Well... except for their size and weight. Its a matter of priority. You can have something that takes almost no space and is pretty to look at but doesn't take advantage of your video card's incredible performance and costs too much, or you can have something that takes more room and is weighs a lot more, but performs like a monster and takes 100% advantage of that BFG 7800 you spent all that money on. For me, the second choice is the obvious one. I don't care if it's heavy as hell and takes up more room... its not like I’m carrying it places and my desk is big enough. You only need a desk that’s about a foot and a half or less in width, which is almost every desk on the market.

I think the biggest problem this monitor poses, is for those computer nerds who spend day and night inside getting no exorcize and can't lift a CRT.





Oh yeah, and welcome to XS! Have fun! Theres a lot of knowledge here you can take advantage of, don't be afraid to ask lots of questions!

[[XC] leviathan18]

i have a crt and a tft and there is no way to compare tft vs crt TFT has better picture and color quality and if you buy a fast enough TFT you wont see the ghosting problem

and if you go to lan parties well you will say thanks to TFT one of my friend has a 21" nec poor guy no he have a samsung 710t and the colors are ten times better the response time are awesome i think lcd are better

[Judaeus Apella]

Im not talking colors, Im talking resolution. I've never seen an LCD with very good resolution, and the ones that always say they have it, dont look like it when you get close enough. And CRT's have excellent colors, you just have to get a GOOD one, same as LCD's.

[Sz1hart]

WOW....

Thinks for all the info some of which are helpful, but I already know most if not alot of the things you guys just talk about. I forgot to say give me some ideas for an AMD rig too because they seem great. I forgot to say this, but I want something thats kinda "future proof."

I know AMD is better for gaming but I just wanted some ideas. Intel just feeds my needs more as of right now because I already have an AMD rig(the one im using right now) though the X2 seems nice. I won't be buying any single high end cpu for a long time if ever.

I know mostly everything is opinion so you guys shouldn't fight. People have different taste.

This rig well not be oc or anything until next year when I upgrade this one and build another one out of the spare parts. I well use an older model to oc/test with before I do on the $$$ parts. This is because new cores come out next year so I though I upgrade then wait a few years to upgrade again.

I know about the XFI card and I have read the information they release. I though they won't comming out until awhile.

What about filters since I won't oc or anything soon.

Im sure I forget something elses(like always).

I well have both crt and lcd so it wouldn't be a problem and I plan on getting the 2405fpw

Any link for a noob at phase charge cooling? Like where I should get my parts, step by step on installing, also can't forget some place to get the cooling unit for cheap.

Well read those links and thxs. Everyone is so nice and helpful, I hope I can be part of the forum and oc my parts to as high as your guys

Again Thxs alot everyone.

EDIT:Is there an oc link in case I get Intel version or would they be almost the same?

[Turok]

Im not talking colors, Im talking resolution. I've never seen an LCD with very good resolution, and the ones that always say they have it, dont look like it when you get close enough. And CRT's have excellent colors, you just have to get a GOOD one, same as LCD's.

Dude, CRTs have the speed and precision, but they are RaDiOaCtIvE and they are also not good for your eyes. Those who use PCs for extended periods of time are better off with a LCD

BTW, LCD are better in image quality
They have a native resolution, wile the CRT forces the resolution (making it look more blurry)
CRTs are projected on a round surface and transformed into a flat surface with a lense, making it more blurry on the edges than the center. LCDs have a even pixel distribution on all the screen.
LCDs also have more pure and vibrant colors
LCDs also last longer with the same quality. CRTs lose quality and can suffer picture burn-in.

The only downsides these days is motion blur, backlight leaking, and how well it shows black.
Ghosting is becoming unnoticeable as LCD become faster in response time.
In 2006-2007, new LCD manufacturing techniques simmilar to that of CPUs will make LCD as fast as CRTs, and even better

Other advantages of a LCD: They are enviromentaly friendly (No Radiation), are healthy to the eyes, consume less power, are more light, they save space, they have a better resolution because of the DVI imput, etc.

I already know all the benefits of a CRT. Ive been recommending NEC monitors a lot of times. If people but LCD, then it must be for a reason, and one of the biggest reasons is for health, and picture quality

[Judaeus Apella]

First of all I've never seen any credible evidence that CRT's emit enough radiation to have any effect on biological material, especially human. Its the same crap with mobile phones. I've been using CRT's since the 80's and I don't get headaches from it, my eyes are fine, and I'm healthy. I've been known to work on them for 11 hours or more at a time! So I think you're full of it. I think you're being a little OC about this really.... and I’m sure you have a bunch of links on scientific research to prove me wrong or something. If you do, is it credible? Has it been acknowledged by a worthy source and publicly published world wide? I haven’t seen this. There's no caution notices on my screen. I strongly doubt the significance of your warning.

Also, you fail to realize something important here. CASH! LCD's are very expensive you want a good one, and most gamers just dont have that kind of money. Many are students who spend most of their money on school, and buy used games... like me. LOL Customers like us just dont have the kind of money for that kind of investment.

[Sz1hart]

You guys shouldn't be fighting at all because you won't get anywhere. The reason for it is because they both have there pros and cons...

Along with that its really the persons opinion about the hardware/software, etc. Its just like saying orange is better then apples...

Back to topic, I also would like to know what kinda/brand of surge I should get that has a lifetime warranty and extra. Does anyone reading this know about Phase Change Cooling? If so could we talk on msn or could I pm you with lots of Q's?

Thxs

[Ugly n Grey]

My advice is don't ask people for their own opinion. You'll feel more confident and get the computer you wanted if you learn about each component by asking lots of general questions and doing research.

As for right now, there’s no difference between AGP and PCI-E if you compare the same exact card in both its versions of AGP and PCI-E. Unless your going with the Geforce 7800, there’s no real reason to go with PCI-E, unless you want to pay an extra $100 or more for bragging rights.

For a new system, buy a PCI-E motherboard. Features and attention are coming to these boards and video card combos, AGP/PCI bus designs are last years news. More models of video cards are coming to PCI-E than AGP, just read the think tank research, don't be sucked in by a single opinion as Judaeus Apella has stated above.

[[XC] leviathan18]

the amd myth about beeing good only for games is false the dual core 4800 is better @ any task, and better than the intel system....

besides the amd system generate less heat and consumes less power just for the record the amd system @ full load consume the same as the intel and idle.

well the lcd vs crt discussion has no point is you choice and taste.

mobo well if you go amd the dfi n4 sli dr (you have sli and can oc in the future)
the intel well (the asus you pointed out i think is the best)

[Judaeus Apella]

the amd myth about beeing good only for games is false the dual core 4800 is better @ any task, and better than the intel system....

besides the amd system generate less heat and consumes less power just for the record the amd system @ full load consume the same as the intel and idle.

well the lcd vs crt discussion has no point is you choice and taste.

mobo well if you go amd the dfi n4 sli dr (you have sli and can oc in the future)
the intel well (the asus you pointed out i think is the best)

True! Very True! Although... I don't see the point of a dual core, unless he gets something as powerful as a 4000+ SD or higher. I'd only get that if I were doing a lot of programming, hosting a lot of online games, or rendering large models or multiplayer maps if you like to make them for games like HL2. Im guessing you still render them the same way as you did with HL....

You guys shouldn't be fighting at all because you won't get anywhere. The reason for it is because they both have there pros and cons...

Along with that its really the persons opinion about the hardware/software, etc. Its just like saying orange is better then apples...

Sorry, sometimes us computer nerds' egos get the best of us and we start battling wits.We're not fighting, just flexing our brains. Almost like a couple of knights battling until one wins, then they shake hands and go grab a beer.

[Turok]

True! Very True! Although... I don't see the point of a dual core, unless he gets something as powerful as a 4000+ SD or higher. I'd only get that if I were doing a lot of programming, hosting a lot of online games, or rendering large models or multiplayer maps if you like to make them for games like HL2. Im guessing you still render them the same way as you did with HL....

EDIT: 4200+ was 4000+ (mistake)

The 4200+ is the slowest X2 right now, and it is worth getting. When longhorn is available, all the bells and wistles on the a64 chips will be up and running and the peformance gain could be enormous.

Right now, even tho the X2 isnt fully compatible with todays software, its still really fast and it beats the Intel chips in everything. A dual core is a good start, since you wont need to update again until you start to see the X2 with 2mb L2 cache running on DDR 3 on Socket M2, and maybe the X4 will follow

[[XC] leviathan18]

turok 4000 is single core....

the athlon x2 line up is 4200 4400 4600 4800

upconming 3800 dual core

he wants a future proof pc so dual core is the best future proof for the next 2 year IMO games are coming multithreaded (starting with unreal3 engine) and after the release of the xbox3600 and the ps3 and revolution we will see a lot more games with multithreaded programing, turok is right longhorn will take advantage of the dual core.

[Ugly n Grey]

Yep, I picked up a 4200 x2, it's curently running at 2650MHz Pi stable. That's puts it in single core performance range over a standard high end single core, but then there's that second extra core for all the really smooth multitasking. I say buy it if you can afford it. I just ordered an Intel dual core box, the programmers are yipping about new hardware. I have to see the compile times and do an eval on the box myself before making a decision for programming, but for gaming and home use or database use I already have AMD stuck in my head.

Have fun

[[XC] leviathan18]

i think the 4400 is the best choice 1mb cache per core and 2.2ghz

[Turok]

turok 4000 is single core....

oops, how did that happen
Ill see if I can edit it

[Judaeus Apella]

Sorry, was really really.... really tired when i wrote that. I meant to say that as long as he gets something as powerful as a 4000+ or higher, I really dont think he should need to go dual core, unless he's hosting a server, rendering models, or programming. However, the 4200+ is a good deal right now if he decides to go with that. I was going back and forth between that and the 4000+ San Diego, but I went with the 4000+ cause I didn't feel that I needed the 4200+ and I didn't feel like spending the extra $$$. It's not like it broke the bank like an FX would have. I'll just upgrade in a year or two. No biggie.

[Ugly n Grey]

i think the 4400 is the best choice 1mb cache per core and 2.2ghz

And it's my belief that's it's easier to OC a 512K cache CPU and the 4200 also runs a native 2.2GHz. I have had the 4200 x2 up to 2.85GHz, but I need better cooling to take it further. I further believe that the extra cache has little net gain except in the benches, though I will admit there IS a difference especially on instruction that fir into cache, but those are rare these days

I totally see how you believe that leviathin18, I just chose differently and have been happy with the outcome.

[Turok]

And it's my belief that's it's easier to OC a 512K cache CPU and the 4200 also runs a native 2.2GHz. I have had the 4200 x2 up to 2.85GHz, but I need better cooling to take it further. I further believe that the extra cache has little net gain except in the benches, though I will admit there IS a difference especially on instruction that fir into cache, but those are rare these days

I totally see how you believe that leviathin18, I just chose differently and have been happy with the outcome.

True, less cache makes it faster/easier to OC. Its like compareing 2Gb of RAM with 1Gb. Just get what you need, dont get too much useless stuff.

This is simmilar with the prescots EE with 2mb of cache. They had a lot of pipelines and a large cache, making the chip Xtreamely expensive and Xtreamely warm, and to top it off, Xtreamely ineficient (since you dont need all that). Well not worth it

[Sz1hart]

ooo, thxs guys. I forgot I have 1gb of kingston hyper X or what somewhere around here.

The thing that I was thinking about was that if I upgrade in 1 1/2 year then I would only want to upgrade maybe just the cpu,mobo, ram, gpu, hd, then again maybe I should build another one then?

Since I'm getting(or hope to) a Phase Change Cooling unit I was looking into build a really really really cheap pc to miss around/test with. I was looking at getting a SD core then saw that Ugly n Grey said it makes somewhat of a differences, what I want to know well it be alot when ocing?

HD, does any of the hitachi deskstar have 16mb that support SATA II and ncq etc? I have a raptor but its having problems. At first I though the problem came from the cpu but its just the raptor. For some reason after several times of reformating and fixing/clean its more stable then before. Anyway thats just my problem with an oem version, when should the new ones come out?

GPU, when is ATI releaseing its card?

Well update the list tonight

[Ugly n Grey]

Well if you are getting into just doing serious benching, I'd stick with the highest multi I could afford in a chip and buy as many 1meg cache chips as it took to find a good one. For just starting out, get something cheap on the chip side, you'll become addicted and want more and more until...... You become Fugger