Just what is TCC5?

[high5]

nice stuff. i thought i saw that (or something similar) in another thread. was it you? i myself consider getting a gig of that stuff, i currently have 512mb corsair c2 v4.1 (tccd based), but it craps out at 270ish due to not having brainpower pcb.

[amrgb]

this is exactly why i posted my initial post, tccd is not being produced, k4h560838f is what is produced and tccd/tcc5 is what its being tested for. there is no such thing as relabeling tccd to tcc5, simply b/c after the production, they're all just k4h560838f ic's before testing part. and for testing, i believe the ic's are being tested at the lower speed first, and then if they pass the test they go to higher grade testing and so on and so on... however, i'm not 100% certain about that but i think its the way it is.

In the essence you're saying the same I said before. What's the difference between relabelling TCCD to TCC5 or labeling k4h560838f ic's as either TCCD or TCC5. I can't see much of a difference. All chips that do not pass the TCCD tests are labeled as TCC5. To meet the TCC5 demand some chips that could be sold as TCCD will actually be sold as TCC5. It's the same sort of speed binning that cpu manufacturers do. A A64 3000 cpu may overclock to more than a 3500. But on average 3500 ones are better clockers.

i stated that physically tccd and tcc5 are completely identical b/c they are the same ic's of the same manufacturing process. please, re-read my post with some understanding.

I've understood your post clearly. But still one could not say that TCC5 is the same as TCCD (and I do not mean that's your opinion). To think that TCC5=TCCD is the same to think that an A64 3000=A64 3500. The core is the same, but the 3500 is better (on average), just like TCCD is better than TCC5 (on average).

[Jaco]

the way I see it :
"Samsung makes k4h560838f ic's. these are basicly DDR 500 chips
Before they were binned and sold as TCCD
Now , they're not speed binning anymore to cut costs. they have a good IC so they are selling it untested DDR466. TCC5

A good move from Samsung , now the market is flooded with dirtcheap winbond UTT ."

don't bash me for anything written between the quotes.
this is all speculation on my part , so could be complete BS

[high5]

amrgb: okay, glad we sorted that out.

the intention of my post was to make clear that tccd & tcc5 are both products of the same manufacturing process just rated differently since i see many ppl are not aware of that from what i've read over the past days/weeks. and some are overreacting b/c some manufacturers switched to tcc5. hope you agree with me here.

To meet the TCC5 demand some chips that could be sold as TCCD will actually be sold as TCC5.

this was my point also, its just that i didn't put it into the words so simple as you did. only i didn't mean 'some' but rather 'a lot' of them, i stated why in my initial post (cutting costs).

[amrgb]

I have to thank you for the important information about the genesis of TCC5/TCCD.

But overreaction is a normal thing after the uncover of hidden facts, especially when there is little information. TCC5 may not be so bad compared to TCCD as many (including me) thought at the beginning, but you must agree that on average its worse than TCCD. If the prices go down accordingly, fine. We are even.

The problem is that retailers took profit of the lack of information about this fact to sell TCC5 sticks at TCCD prices. Memory manufacturer like OCZ claim that since the introduction of TCC5 they have lowered their prices, but that they cannot control the prices chaged by the retailers. I have no reasons to doubt OCZ words, and its true that they cannot control the prices charged by their retailers. Unless they had disclosed this information. Then, people would be awarre of the greedy retailers and stop buying overpriced sticks until they charged fair prices.

That's how I see this question know. And I still think that memory manufacturers should have protected their customers interests from opportunist retailers.

PS: at the present, OCZ Plat rev2 v1.1 costs 235 EUR and GSkill 4400 LE 265 EUR here in Portugal. Two weeks ago it was 250-265. Aren't the Plat rev2's overpriced? I think so, although their price is slowly decreasing.

[high5]

But overreaction is a normal thing after the uncover of hidden facts, especially when there is little information. TCC5 may not be so bad compared to TCCD as many (including me) thought at the beginning, but you must agree that on average its worse than TCCD. If the prices go down accordingly, fine. We are even.

agreed, however, i feel some ppl jumped right at ocz without really checking the real difference, and that certainly isn't fair. as for tcc5 being worst than tccd on average, well, theoretically yes, but you must have in mind that vast majority (if not all) of tccd did better than its rated speed (ddr500). and only time will tell for tcc5, but i expect the trend will continue and the difference won't be so obvious. i may be wrong... we'll see.

The problem is that retailers took profit of the lack of information about this fact to sell TCC5 sticks at TCCD prices. Memory manufacturer like OCZ claim that since the introduction of TCC5 they have lowered their prices, but that they cannot control the prices chaged by the retailers. I have no reasons to doubt OCZ words, and its true that they cannot control the prices charged by their retailers. Unless they had disclosed this information. Then, people would be awarre of the greedy retailers and stop buying overpriced sticks until they charged fair prices

That's how I see this question know. And I still think that memory manufacturers should have protected their customers interests from opportunist retailers.

i agree with everything you stated above 100%. especially the retailers part. but unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it.

at the present, OCZ Plat rev2 v1.1 costs 235 EUR and GSkill 4400 LE 265 EUR here in Portugal. Two weeks ago it was 250-265. Aren't the Plat rev2's overpriced? I think so, although their price is slowly decreasing.

well, here in croatia price dropped 22% on ocz last week. it was €295, and now it stands at €230. we don't have any gskill available over here.

[Eldonko]

Did a bunch of tweaking since my last post, updated results for 4200EL TCC5:

[high5]

eldonko, thank you for your input. however, could you post your results again in ocz tcc5 overclocking results thread so we can have all the users experiences in one place.

anyone else running tcc5, please post your results in thread mentioned above so we could all get better impression of tcc5 in global.

[Eldonko]

Ok, done.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

I'm really impressed by some of your guys' TCC5 clocks/results. My current stuff will only do around 245 2.5-3-3-10 at 2.9v. maybe just a voltage issue. *considers getting a DDR booster*
this stuff can do tighter timings too; 2.0-3-2-10 at 2.9v, but only up to around 210 mhz, after which it produces all sorts of interesting errors.
My TCC5 is rev. F 0431 (i think) on XMS3202v4.2s (2x512)

[amrgb]

That's the problem with TCC5. Some good results mixed with some very bad results. This behavior was not so common with TCCD.

You can try 3v or even 3.1v, but with these volts you definitely need active cooling and most probably you will be working beyond your module's warranty.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

i'm already out of warranty and got active cooling, so thats no problem
just did some more tests; it looks like something doesn't like a 1T command rate.
2.5-3-3-10-1T 250mhz: errored during windows boot
2.5-3-3-10-2T: stable to around 260mhz
3-3-3-10-2T: stable to around 275mhz
Perhaps it's the mobo (K8N Neo Platinum) that doesn't like the 1T at high clocks.
Didn't really try anything above 275mhz because chipset voltage was too low (based on previous experimentations).
Even so, 3-3-3-10-2T @ DDR550 netted me an extra 1000mb/s in everest memread.

[high5]

i have similar experience with my tccd on s754, 1t goes only upto 235mhz, when i switch to 2t i'm hitting 275-280 with no problem. friend of mine had similar issues with corsair xl v1.1. so it has nothing to do with your ram being tcc5.

try testing your ram in another system. my ram does easily 280 w/ 1t in nf4 mobo. from what i've seen, tccd/5 without brainpower has problems reaching high clocks using 1t in s754 systems.

[LikwidKool]

the OCZ 4200EL TCC5 seems to be good stuff. So far I am at 290 3-3-3-10-1t 2.8v

[high5]

what about 2.5-3-3?

[g0dM@n]

I miss my PDP Patriot XBL that I sold... sold it for 160, too... dunno if that was such a bright idea... been stuck with utt twinmos since.

How is the OCZ 4800 stuff doing?

[hovo73]

2x512 PC3200, OCZ Platinum Rev 2 v.1.1 (TCC5)
DFI NF4 Ultra-D, 510-2 BIOS
Winchester 3000+
ATI X800XL
Enermax Noisetaker 485
1.325V+123%, 1.3V, 1.7v, 2.9V
CPU: 9x280, RAM: 200
2.5-4-3-7-1T-8-16-3-3-2-3-4708-A-E
A-0-L6-L2-8.0-F-A-256-D-16x-7x-D

These sticks were refusing to work at 280 no matter what timings, and voltages until I relaxed Max Asyncrh Latency to 8.0ns. As you can see, now they are rock stable. They will go up to about 290 at these settings, but my CPU won't go over much over 2520MHz (9x280).



[EDIT] This results are equal or better than the ones I got from PDP Patriot XBLK TCCD which I bought about 6 month ago. I still own them and since I learned a thing or two about DFI boards and ram timings, I am going to try those Patriots again soon.[/EDIT]

[dqniel]

Is it possible to get TCCD new anywhere anymore? Or has it all gone to TCC5? I want to buy whatever is the cheapest available 2x512 TCCD Brainpower kit.

For example, is this still tccd? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220033

[dippyskoodlez]

Is it possible to get TCCD new anywhere anymore? Or has it all gone to TCC5? I want to buy whatever is the cheapest available 2x512 TCCD Brainpower kit.

For example, is this still tccd? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220033

Corsair looks to be the only place with a fresh supply of tccd, seeing as thats who samsung is still making it for.

[dqniel]

Corsair looks to be the only place with a fresh supply of tccd, seeing as thats who samsung is still making it for.

Thanks for the info. Looks like the only "fresh" ram being produced with TCCD is 3200xl and 4400C25PT now . Guess I'll look to buy some used or something cause 185 for 2x512 is a bit steep. Either that or I'll go with some UTT chips.

[Anarki]

Is anyone using TCCD/TCC5 with a P4/Celeron/P4-M/Celeron-M if so what timings are you getting and on what board?

Thanks

[hansbroken]

What about the G.Skill's at New Egg? These are advertised as TCCD, but is that not the case anymore? For example, I noticed that New Egg no longer lists the Patriot XBLK's as being TCCD. And since the price on the Patriot have gone down to the mid $160's it would make sense that they switched to TCC5. Whereas the G.Skill's seem to be holding steady in price -- more or less. Can anyone confirm this about G.Skill?

Either way, I hope that since G.Skill is still advertised as TCCD -- and the price seems to be in-line with that assumption -- that they are in fact TCCD. If so, which one to get (if I’m not mistaken, LA is their low end designation??): LD, FR, LC (getting pricey going further)...

Also, what about Muskin? Aren't they like Corsair in that they are getting the TCCD Chips?

Lastly, since -- for example -- companies like OCZ seem to be putting some real effort into producing quality memory using these newer rev 'f' TCC5 ic's in their 3200 rev 2, then is this TCCD / TCC5 issue more dependent on how the manufacturer of the RAM implements them (such as testing etc..) rather than the ic's alone? In other words: if we are now 'stuck' (so to speak) with TCC5, then wouldn't it make sense that a company like OCZ will make it more probably to get a set that OC's like the TCCD brainpower RAM of olde?

BTW: Out of curiosity, does OCZ use Brainpower PCB?

P.S. 'Anarki' -- that is one lucky kitten if you ask me, lol

Thanks y'all

[dippyskoodlez]

What about the G.Skill's at New Egg? These are advertised as TCCD, but is that not the case anymore? For example, I noticed that New Egg no longer lists the Patriot XBLK's as being TCCD. And since the price on the Patriot have gone down to the mid $160's it would make sense that they switched to TCC5. Whereas the G.Skill's seem to be holding steady in price -- more or less. Can anyone confirm this about G.Skill?

if its marked tccd, its probably tccd. there are still available sources of tccD, but its more expenbsive than tcc5. corsair has a cheap, *fresh* supply of tccd, samsung is making it for --Them. doesnt mean other companys cant get it corsair is probably the one keeping it in production. i dont know the details, but im sure other companys can get it, just ahve to pay a bit more.

and yea OCZ uses the bp pcb most of the time last i checked.

[andyOCZ]

Corsair looks to be the only place with a fresh supply of tccd, seeing as thats who samsung is still making it for.

OCZ has plenty of "fresh" TCCD, back by popular demand. We just announced our PC4800 Platinum Elite TCCD.

http://www.ocztechnology.com/aboutocz/press/2005/139

Check it out. It should be available this week.

[4rory]

Theres a typo in that press release, Where it says all ddr2 is hand tested, this ain't ddr2.