My T.E.C. plan - 437W pelti on a P4 650 and maybe a tec on the x850 pe?

[Butcher_]

Some comments:
The PSU is underspecified for the TEC. You need 30A at 24V, minimum, to run that.
The fan/rad setup is way too weak - holst has covered this above.

You won't be able to power a GPU tec off that PSU as it isn't even powerful enough for the CPU TEC.

Incidentally it's ~720W for the TEC, plus CPU going into the loop, so maybe 850-900W to be cooled. You're not going to make that quiet.

I'd suggest the meanwell SCN-800-24 to power that TEC: http://www.computronics.com.au/meanwell/scn-800/
You still won't be able to power a GPU TEC with it though.

[Elu Thingol]

Am3k how are you going to get that block? How much does it cost? For now i am going to use a custom made waterblock, not specially designed for pelts. But if i can find that wintsch block easily for a reasonable price i might get it. I am not sure if a friend of mine will decide to make me a block or not. He has made one of the best blocks for pelts but he has a lot of work now...so where can i find the wintsch block?

[Butcher_]

I'd also like to point out that 800W of cooling gear isn't particularly efficient, you'd get much better results for less power with phase-change. 800W is just over 1HP, a 1/6 HP compressor system would easily outperfom it.

[am3k]

@Elu Thingol: You may find the [url=http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-blc-134.html]Wintsch Labs Arctic Web Liquid Cooled 437Watt Thermoelectric Assembly @ frozencpu.com[/url. Price $139.99

@Butcher_: Thanks for the input Well as I mentioned behover I don't got the room right now for phase-change since I want to mount everything inside the cabinet. And since I got a fulltower I don't got the option (at the moment) for mounting a mach II (ore like) under it. The WAF plays in since the computer is placed in the livingroom

some questions
* What kinda cooling solution is recomended for silent cooling of a system based on a 437W T.E.C.?
* Since it seems imposible (?, awaiting answer to question above) using the 437W model. How about a 226W T.E.C.? I'm thinking about the MCW5002-775T.
Would I get a bether OC using ordinary WC ore would the 226W have some effect on a P4 650?

[Holst]

The 437watt operating at reduced voltage MAY be just as good as a 226watt under some circumstances, and it will allow room for expantion.

Unfortunately I think the below statement is FACT.

You CANNOT build a CPU TEC system in an enclosed cabinet and keep it "quiet" *

TEC cooling needs big airflow (as even a 226watt TEC is 400-500watts heat output)
If you have a limited space to move the air through, you need high airflow and its noisy.

I dont think you will get what you want from TEC cooling am3k.
CPU tec cooling is going to be noisy

*- unless you are running a very low power CPU.

[Holst]

If you want quiet and enclosed you will do much better with phase change. My promethis is very quiet and outperforms any TEC rig. This is why I dont run pelts any more.

Dissadvantage of phase change is that you cant just build it yourself like you can a TEC system. You can build a tec system if you do your research, but its more complex than TEC.

[am3k]

Since I will use some noise-isolation around my cabinet I cud use more powerfull fans I belive, also I cud go for a larger extern radiator (like the "airplex EVO 1800"). But I see more problems with this do to the all imoportant WAF and the placement for my computer at the time.

Say you strip a mach II, how mutch room will it take? Got any links of people who have mounted it inside cab.?

[Butcher_]

Noise insulation only goes so far. You're (realistically) going to want some big high power fans for TECs. Think 50mm thick 172mm fans or similar.

[Jabo]

You called good Sir.
It’s been a while since I posted here so.. good to see regulars in top form !

Im interested in your progress since I’m planning on using similar modules for a project of mine.

From what I gathered is your brief for this project I’d suggest the following.
1. Run two modules, 437watter for CPU and 172watter for GPU
2. Run both of them from a single 12v PSU in parallel
3. Use something like 120.3 Thermochill rad with 38mm thick 120mm diameter fans on it
4. Make sure the intake air comes ducted directly from the outside
5. You may use sth like rheobus to control fan noise
Such a setup would guarantee VERY good CPU/GPU temps as well as manageable thermal output of entire system. It is going to be power hungry as you now. You should be getting your coolant temps around 30-40C depending on ambient with silicone temps around zero (depending on quality of your insulation job of course).
Your 12v pump (was it MCP600) is more than enough since your limiting factor is radiator and not block performance. The block you linked to seems good for the job if not go for 6002 series from Swiftech.

Hope it helps

Jabo

[Butcher_]

ing.
1. Run two modules, 437watter for CPU and 172watter for GPU
2. Run both of them from a single 12v PSU in parallel

The 437W TEC is a 24V model, as are most 172s. Running both from a single 24V supply is possible though, but it'll need to be specced for 45A continuous draw, which is one badass PSU.
A single PSU solution might be this: http://www.computronics.com.au/meanwell/scn-1k2/
Alternatively 2 of these in parallel would work and cost less.

BTW, I'd spec for at least 300CFM with thick fans (50mm are best, 38mm if you want something smaller).

[Jabo]

I know they're 24v Umax units and that's why I advised to run them off 12v PSU. If you want to keep it all in your case and still be able to stay sane due to fans noise levels it is not feasible to run this big a$$ TECs at their rated Umax.
If you would like to run the above mentioned modules at their rated 24v Umax we are talkin ~1200Watts of thermal output from your radiator.
My setup uses stock Swiffy TEC blocks with 226watter for CPU and 80 watter for GPU. I run ~400CFM of fans through Saab heater core and temps were not that stellar but noise was unberable
Check this article by BillA, it should give you some insight into how rads work and some real life figures for comparison to your desired setup.
On top of that 12v PSUs are very common on the market which fact is reflected by prices.
If you want to run them @Umax then I do not think it is resonably doable within the confines of ANY bar Mountain Mods PC case and you'd need sth alog the lines of a full size car radiator with aroung 400mmx400 core exposure area and below 1" thickness of the core.

Don't get me wrong, what you are saying can be done but at a cost of noise and lots of money making performance-to-price ratio .... lame .
I'd love to see such a setup so please go ahead and do it!

[Kunaak]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...767165141&rd=1

50 amp PSU at 12-15 volts = $140
it's a nice affordable option.

I use a PS36kx, its only 35 amps at 12-15 volts, but I can also hook my Meanwell S-200-5 to it, and get alittle extra power from it when I need to get it into the 20 volt range.

[Butcher_]

Half voltage is probably not a bad option, it also reduces the current draw significantly, you'd only need around a 25-30A PSU for both at 12V, and you can get them pretty cheap (13.8V supplies are common because of their use for radios).

[Holst]

I think the temps will be worse than on straight water with the TEC at 12v

I dont see why you are going to the trouble and expense of TEC if your only just going to beat straight watercooling.

You can get water very quiet, and you will have to spend LOADS less.

If you want to use a TEC then you need to forget about the noise to get any real overclocking gains.

[Butcher_]

Good points Holst.
TECs are noisy and power hungry. If you want quiet, get phase change or use straight water. There really is no way around that.

[Piper]

I just got an email back from Wintsch Labs. Their site has great info about installing the WB, etc, etc.... But no data about what their products require in order to function properly.

Their Tech Support told me to plan for 500GPH and 500Watts of heat produced.
So look at your gear, and remember that the pump GPH figures are not real flow rate figures in a working setup, they are static figures. The pump is moving water with no resistance. So also look at the head rating.

Even a pair of the Black Ice Pro 120s can remove 500watts of heat, but remember, I am only cooling the CPU. My cooling loops will be very tight, high flow, and efficient. When you start cooling every little component, you can easily add so much restriction to your watercooling loop that even the pump is working harder and adding extra heat to the burden.

My case is special, I am doing a straight up review of the Arctic Web, not a perminent installation. I am not even mounting the gear into a case, it's all being mounted onto a 20" X 15" Polyurathane cutting board which is really working out sweet and they are cheap.

Don't go crazy on huge pumps and huge radiators unless you have to cool several components. The heat burden on the Web is going to be much higher then anything else going. But the design of the water block allows you to leverage double the cooling capacity as well. Of course, all that does rest solely on the water block and TEC setup.

If the PSU can fully power the TEC, then the TEC can handle the CPU's heat output. If the Web can handle the total heat burden with sufficient pump power and heat exchange, then you have a working system.

I am just doing a review of the Product for Pimprig.com, and I am not spending my money to run this monster 24/7. We all have to make our own choices, but mine was only to accept the review, or decline it

[Entsafter]

i think the 172 watt peltier isn't big enough for a overclocked X850XT PE!
because the tec has about 100 watt heat absorbation power and not 172...
with a overclocked X850XT PE are 100 watt heat normal and then the peltier doesn't cool the gpu, that will be really stupid..

[Rippthrough]

I think you may have to replace the sides of your cabinet with radiators...

[Butcher_]

i think the 172 watt peltier isn't big enough for a overclocked X850XT PE!
because the tec has about 100 watt heat absorbation power and not 172...
with a overclocked X850XT PE are 100 watt heat normal and then the peltier doesn't cool the gpu, that will be really stupid..

A 172W TEC can pump 172W of heat, as long as you run it at the maximum voltage (24.6V usually).

[am3k]

...

Their Tech Support told me to plan for 500GPH and 500Watts of heat produced.
So look at your gear, and remember that the pump GPH figures are not real flow rate figures in a working setup, they are static figures. The pump is moving water with no resistance. So also look at the head rating.

Even a pair of the Black Ice Pro 120s can remove 500watts of heat, but remember, I am only cooling the CPU. My cooling loops will be very tight, high flow, and efficient. When you start cooling every little component, you can easily add so much restriction to your watercooling loop that even the pump is working harder and adding extra heat to the burden.

...

Don't go crazy on huge pumps and huge radiators unless you have to cool several components. The heat burden on the Web is going to be much higher then anything else going. But the design of the water block allows you to leverage double the cooling capacity as well. Of course, all that does rest solely on the water block and TEC setup.

If the PSU can fully power the TEC, then the TEC can handle the CPU's heat output. If the Web can handle the total heat burden with sufficient pump power and heat exchange, then you have a working system.

...

So by this I cud be able to cool it by using 2x360mm radiators and not going mad with the fans (delta fans ore some other crazy thing)? Keep in mind that I will have one (ore possibly two) loop(s) for the cpu and a seperate one for the GPU & NB part.

Ore have I totaly misunderstud your post

[Entsafter]

A 172W TEC can pump 172W of heat, as long as you run it at the maximum voltage (24.6V usually).

but a 172 w heatpump tec had at least 300 w!
and a 473 more than 700w!
1kw that's too much power

[Piper]

Entsafter, don't confuse the power it takes to run the TEC with it's thermal capacity.

The 437W TEC that I will be working with is theoretically able to move 437W of thermal energy through it, but it requires 24+V and over 25Amps to do it. That is where the 600+W comes from. It's the power requirememnt.


EDIT: Oops, I see that you did understand the difference, sorry. Yes, it takes a lot of juice to run these TECs.

[Butcher_]

More like 32A for the 437W; it's a silly amount of power - as mentioned above, using a 1hp TEC is a bit crazy given you can get a decent phase change system with a 1/6HP compressor. :p

[Piper]

In my case, both the TEC and the PSU are either loaners or will be free. I don't know which yet, but I will gladly add additional equipment to properly support it's testing and review.

[freecableguy]

I have a lot of experience with high-heat TECs and high-flow pumps and big rads...let me just say that you WILL NOT be satisfied with noise level and temps following a 437W TEC install on a Prescott-based system. If you want water and TEC for the VC...great idea...but go for PC on the CPU if you want sub-zero temps.

There was once a day that TECs were great. Those days are gone.

-Kris