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Thread: ThermoChill PA160 ProtoType.... A Status Update

  1. #1
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    ThermoChill PA160 ProtoType.... A Status Update

    How it began...

    Extrapolating from what I'm seeing it tells me that it should be possible to build a purpose built PC cooling radiator that is:

    ~16x16cm in size for the core
    14FPI
    1" thick in the core
    single pass
    coupled with a single Papst 4412FGL (26dBA fan) sucking on the core via a shroud

    and achieve a C/W of slightly less than 0.05, for basically the equivalent performance of the Thermochill 120.2 using a pair of the stronger and noisier 4312L's.

    i.e. a silent, compact, and high performing radiator solution that for a water-cooling setup with say a single pump and a hot overclocked CPU running most anything should never really see water temps exceed more than about 4C above ambient.

    So how's that for a pointer for a step in the right direction for PC radiator improvements?
    Said Cathar one day... so from that, I produced:



    As you can see, shrouded at 12.5 degrees from vertical results in it being rather on the large side... 12.5 degrees from Horizontal resulted in a shroud that wasn't worth bothering with as was ridiculously small... and it's single row, single pass.





    ^^ 14FPI... tis more see-thru than it appears in the photo... wasn't particularly well squared on the radiator...



    ^^ Beside a PC60 for scale...



    ^^ Hanging from an old MountainMods wrapper (old as they no longer use the U wrapper, they use 3x separate panels)



    ^^ And mounted in the MountainMods...

    It was decided, obviously, that the shroud in place was far too large... so Cathar returned to the calculator and did some further number crunching...

    Marci, been plugging through the calculations with a flow calculator and the shroud angle.

    10-15 degrees shroud angle from the vertical is optimal for the 16x16 -> 12x12cm shroud, with a pressure drop of 1.9Pa given a 50CFM air-flow, for which 35-50CFM is about the sorts of air-flows we're targetting with the low-noise optimised design.

    A 30 degree shroud angle (4cm shroud depth), yields just a 2.0 Pa pressure drop.

    A 45 degree shroud angle (2cm shroud depth), yields a 2.1 Pa Pressure drop

    Given that the sorts of low-noise fans we're talking about are generating 10Pa air pressures at the sorts of air-flow rates we're talking about, then the variation here is trivial at best. We'd only be talking about impacting air-flow rates by 1% by converting the shroud into a very convenient and compact 4cm depth device (fan mounted on outside), and by 2% from "optimal" if the shroud was an even more compact 2cm depth (fan on outside).

    In fact, even moving to a super-compact 1cm depth yields just a 3% loss of air-flow from the "optimal" depth.

    I would however suggest that 4cm (30 degree angle from vertical) would be a very nice shroud depth for both the blow and suck fan orientations, and still make for a very compact design.
    So back to the drawing board we went, and we now have....



    Old Shroud vs New Shroud - quite a saving in the space department


    Better shot showing fin spacing


    Profile shot of single Rev2 shroud fitted to one side


    Shroud without fan


    So, that's the 40mm shroud done and dusted and all fitted to the mountainmods testrig. Now that we have it down to a useable size we can get on with proper testing. There was no point doing any indepth testing with the large Rev1 shroud as this obviously wasn't the final shroud, so any figures produced would be largely irrelevant unless used to theoretically predict how it would perform with the Rev2. Testing isn't for theorising in my book. On this project, the theory was done first. The goal of building the rad is to confirm those theories.

  2. #2
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    Looks awesome. Can't wait to see how it performs.

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    I'm always happy to see a company heeding the advice of cathar. it looks like it turned out well.

    Marci, you have impeciable timming. Let me know if thermochill wants that sucker tested along with the other rads. Lestat, our review coordinator sent you guys an email about reviewing the 120.2 and 3. So if you guys agree to let us review them, I would be honored to test this guy as well. seems like it would perform admierably with very vyer little water and airflow restriction which is what cathar pH and others have been begging for, for a while now.

  4. #4
    Tyler Durden
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    I've been watching this for awhile, when do you expect it to be for sale Marci? I'll be jumping in to watercooling again around June/July at the latest and I'd sure like to pick two of these up.
    Formerly XIP, now just P.

  5. #5
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    It should definitely be out n' about by then fella...

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    I love this idea. I have not been to keen on dual cores as there is to much modifying in a normal case. This seems like it might be easier to fit, and still give good performance. I am looking forward to results.
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    HeatWare

  7. #7
    Tyler Durden
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marci
    It should definitely be out n' about by then fella...

    Excellent! Be sure to keep us posted with the latest on it's status.
    Formerly XIP, now just P.

  8. #8
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    So...I keep reading about this rad, but I don't see anywhere to buy it. Anybody have it available in the US?

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    Last edited by MaxxxRacer; 06-25-2005 at 01:33 AM.

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    Wow...it's a little pricey, eh?

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    ya.. i was shocked to say the least...

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    Yeah and its not good for most peoples cases. I want to see a 2x 120mm 1 way / single pass rad.


    If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.

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    Hey Marci, any idea when the "wings" mounting kit will be in stock?
    The rig
    CPUs: E6300 ES B0 @ 3220 MHz w/1.35v orthos stable | E6600 B2 @ 3400 MHz w/1.43v --> Sold | Xeon 3050 L2 @ 3304 MHz w/1.45v orthos stable
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    Graphics: 256 MB Connect 3D Radeon X1900XT @ 661/828 (core/mem)
    RAM: 2 x 1 GB Team Xtreem PC2 5300 @ DDR1010 4-4-4-8 / DDR1100 5-5-5-12 w/2.25v orthos stable
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  14. #14
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    Marci
    It's great to see that ThermoChill teamed up with Cathar to produce better rads!
    Do you have dual and triple versions of PA160 planned in future?

    Kudos for innovation!

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    bad exchange rate for UK to US

    hell bad exchange rate for UK to anywhere

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Special_K
    bad exchange rate for UK to US

    hell bad exchange rate for UK to anywhere
    lol.......its not that bad the other way round
    The rig
    CPUs: E6300 ES B0 @ 3220 MHz w/1.35v orthos stable | E6600 B2 @ 3400 MHz w/1.43v --> Sold | Xeon 3050 L2 @ 3304 MHz w/1.45v orthos stable
    MoBo: Asus P5K-E WiFi-AP @ 520 x * orthos stable
    Graphics: 256 MB Connect 3D Radeon X1900XT @ 661/828 (core/mem)
    RAM: 2 x 1 GB Team Xtreem PC2 5300 @ DDR1010 4-4-4-8 / DDR1100 5-5-5-12 w/2.25v orthos stable
    HDDs: 300 GB (16 MB Cache) and 80 GB Maxtor Diamondmax 10 drives
    Optical: NEC ND3500AG DVD +/- RW
    PSU: Antec True Power 2.0 550W
    H2O
    Swiftech MCR220-QP | Laing D5 | AquaXtreme MP-05 Pro LE | DangerDen Maze 4 LP | 2 x 120mm NoiseBlocker SX1 fans
    Lappy
    MSI MS1022 14.1" Widescreen Barebone | Celeron-M 360 1.4 GHz @ 1.86 GHz / Pentium M 715A | GeForce 6200 Go | 80 GB Fujitsu HDD | Sony DVD +/- RW
    Waiting for
    Nehalem

  17. #17
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    kitt...

    id email the store to answer your above question...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellybeard999
    kitt...

    id email the store to answer your above question...
    roger that.
    I was thinking about that earlier....
    The rig
    CPUs: E6300 ES B0 @ 3220 MHz w/1.35v orthos stable | E6600 B2 @ 3400 MHz w/1.43v --> Sold | Xeon 3050 L2 @ 3304 MHz w/1.45v orthos stable
    MoBo: Asus P5K-E WiFi-AP @ 520 x * orthos stable
    Graphics: 256 MB Connect 3D Radeon X1900XT @ 661/828 (core/mem)
    RAM: 2 x 1 GB Team Xtreem PC2 5300 @ DDR1010 4-4-4-8 / DDR1100 5-5-5-12 w/2.25v orthos stable
    HDDs: 300 GB (16 MB Cache) and 80 GB Maxtor Diamondmax 10 drives
    Optical: NEC ND3500AG DVD +/- RW
    PSU: Antec True Power 2.0 550W
    H2O
    Swiftech MCR220-QP | Laing D5 | AquaXtreme MP-05 Pro LE | DangerDen Maze 4 LP | 2 x 120mm NoiseBlocker SX1 fans
    Lappy
    MSI MS1022 14.1" Widescreen Barebone | Celeron-M 360 1.4 GHz @ 1.86 GHz / Pentium M 715A | GeForce 6200 Go | 80 GB Fujitsu HDD | Sony DVD +/- RW
    Waiting for
    Nehalem

  19. #19
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    $130? Yikes big time. Guess I'll have to wait and see what asia can produce...

  20. #20
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    If you're interested in the PA160 and don't like those prices, you should try to email or call Danger Den.

    They probably have a small stock of PA160's and I think they're cheaper.

  21. #21
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer



    Got mine from 'da den' fro 99$ + shipping.

  22. #22
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    Interesting, it's available through them but not on the site?

    A followup question...now that the BIP/BIX(1/2/3) are all cheaper than the PA160, how would multiple perform? Would there be too much restriction? You could stack 4 BIP for the same price as a single PA160. lol (Yeah, that would be too much restriction, but that price really throws things off)

  23. #23
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    two bix2 or two bip2 wouldnt be too much restriction. but to make use of that much cooilng ud need some serious cpu/gpu combo..

  24. #24
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    -Overall dimensions HxWxD = 214x166x50mm with 14FPI?
    I am now curious, is the core actually 50mm thick or is that just the housing?

    The reason I ask is that I have been testing a core that is 195x155x50mm (the copper seamed creature that I re-created a few weeks back -- yes, I am still working on applying that process to larger cores. ) but it is 12 FPI.
    Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums.
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    carpe noctem.

  25. #25
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    weapon thats an interstingly shapped core.. sounds good. ill measure the thickness and post it here in a minute.

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