US cars vs Rest of the world

[TheTrebleKing]

this is a debate i've had in mind for a while.

to me US cars are big, heavy, guzzle loads of gas/petrol, and most cant go as fast as their smaller, more fuel efficient, and lighter European and Japanese counterparts.

so what gives? surely would be better if the US adopted the same tech as other countries and made more efficient and lighter cars?

take a little old Vauxhall Nova for example, 1.4L with a turbo and some tuning can go well over 120MPH and still does 35MPG compared to a US V8 that weighs about 3 Tonnes struggles over 100MPH (Station wagon for example) and barely does 15MPG.

wouldn't it be better for the world if the US used less gas/petrol? less demand would be put on the world supply and be cheaper for the rest of us.

lets hear everyones thoughts on this, keep if friendly folks

[NWEng]

Until we Americans are forced to pay the same amount for our gas as the rest of the world, fuel efficiency will not be an issue for Detroit and the American people. Soccer mom's, retired folk, and those "important people with their H2's" will set the pace until then. Sad but true considering we talking about a finite resource; it's going to happen eventually and there will a lot of ing and crying when it does.

[masterofpuppets]

Italian cars own! There are some nice american cars, but you can't beat a nice Ferrari or Lamborghini or one of the other funny named italian companies. Err, Jaguars are quite nice. Especially the old and now sadly not in production, XJ220.

[hollywood]

this is a debate i've had in mind for a while.

to me US cars are big, heavy, guzzle loads of gas/petrol, and most cant go as fast as their smaller, more fuel efficient, and lighter European and Japanese counterparts.

so what gives? surely would be better if the US adopted the same tech as other countries and made more efficient and lighter cars?

take a little old Vauxhall Nova for example, 1.4L with a turbo and some tuning can go well over 120MPH and still does 35MPG compared to a US V8 that weighs about 3 Tonnes struggles over 100MPH (Station wagon for example) and barely does 15MPG.

wouldn't it be better for the world if the US used less gas/petrol? less demand would be put on the world supply and be cheaper for the rest of us.

lets hear everyones thoughts on this, keep if friendly folks

I think your perception of "US" cars is a little dated. Maybe what you are saying was true in the 1970s, 1980s. However today most US built sedans are 4 cylinder or at most V6.

We have many cars that do well on gas mileage. Cars by Saturn, Pontiac, Ford, etc. We've got some of the worlds most strict emmission standards too...ever heard of California standards? Compared to California, Europe's emissions standards look outright bad for the planet. So your whole argument about the US needing better tech in it's cars is simply unjustified.

Plus supposed "imports" are more popular in the car market anyhow. Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Honda. These are all moslty built here in the USA, however they're still called "imports." Even though alot of US built cars are actually made in Mexico.

Of course Trucks and SUVs are another matter entirely. With the rise in gas prices though, everywhere you look you see an SUV up for sale.

If you really want to pick on a country with piss-poor emissions standards, and is driving more and more cars each day...Pick on China.

[enzoR]

look at the gas prices in europe its almost double.

[dqniel]

I think your perception of "US" cars is a little dated. Maybe what you are saying was true in the 1970s, 1980s. However today most US built sedans are 4 cylinder or at most V6.

We have many cars that do well on gas mileage. Cars by Saturn, Pontiac, Ford, etc. We've got some of the worlds most strict emmission standards too...ever heard of California standards? Compared to California, Europe's emissions standards look outright bad for the planet. So your whole argument about the US needing better tech in it's cars is simply unjustified.

Plus supposed "imports" are more popular in the car market anyhow. Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Honda. These are all moslty built here in the USA, however they're still called "imports." Even though alot of US built cars are actually made in Mexico.

Of course Trucks and SUVs are another matter entirely. With the rise in gas prices though, everywhere you look you see an SUV up for sale.

If you really want to pick on a country with piss-poor emissions standards, and is driving more and more cars each day...Pick on China.

couldn't have said it better myself. my friend has an 88 vw jetta with euro racing cams. the cams are in spec for emissions in europe, but not here. although, i still do agree that a lot of our car decisions are poor for the most part. why have a 6l v8 for example when you can make the car half the weight, and put a supercharged 1.6 in it or something? safer, quieter, better milage, etc... kind of confuses me. i'm guessing its mainly because half the soccer moms and senior citizens here feel safer in a huge car (which tests prove to be foolish)

[Big Deel]

You are way out of date I would say.I have NEVER road in a V-8 car that struggled to hit 100 mph.The only tyhing that stuggled was the driver's nerve.Take a test drive and bring yourself back to reality.Bring your Vauxhall Nova for a run......I would Be there and back before that thing made it down the 1/4 mile.
Oh I suppose you meant 0-30 et. Oh ok. pff

[TheTrebleKing]

ok seriously, a tuned nissan skyline can make 350+ BHP out of a 2.5L engine, and take it upwards of 190+ Mph and still use less than half the fuel of a yank-tank V8 5.0L

anywayz why have a car that can go so fast as a V8? the limit on the highway is 65MPH if i am correct, a 1.0L could manage 90MPH and still be too fast for any speed limit in the US.

i think its just the 'merican way, that everything they build must be BIGGER than anyone else, they must guzzle more fuel than anyone else because they can.

either that or a simple mind cant get good performance out of a sub 2 litre engine, so they stick a big engine in it to avoid applying any intellect to the problem.

in years time when the US fuel runs out, they will have to buy all fuel from abroad like most countries, then the V8's and all other fuel guzzling transport will go thirsty, cos fuel will cost too much to run them.

i'll probly get banned or something for appearing to be "anti 'merican", sorry if i seem like that, but i feel disgusted at the ignorance with things like this, Petroleum is a finite resource, it wont last forever you know.

[TheTrebleKing]

Bring your Vauxhall Nova for a run......I would Be there and back before that thing made it down the 1/4 mile.

vauxhall nova 1.6 twin-turbo, quarter the weight of any yank-tank, would blow away any V8 off the starting line, would be half-way there before the big ol' gas-guzzler hit 2nd gear.

in a magazine i saw the times of a nova 1.8 Gsi, 0-60 in 5.5sec and 150mph top speed.

all that from a little car the 1.6 twin turbo would be even better acceleration though

[Big Deel]

Have you ever ridden in an American car?
I ask only because it dose not sound like it.

There is no way you can compare a Nissan skyline/Vauxhall nova 1.6 twin-turbo to a V-8 American car. It’s like comparing a Duron to a Pentium 4 ee.
One uses less power and yields less performance. The other uses more resources but gives better performance. At the same time there are fewer who use and/or have one. Look at the price of a high-end V8 car. The US is not flooded with V8 cars compared to other cars.

Yes the speed limit is 65 in some states. In some it’s higher. There is a lot of open spaces in-between to do "a little more�. It’s kind of like giving your processor more than the maximum specified voltage, its wrong but if used with good intelligence it is ok.

quote
"I think its just the 'merican way, that everything they build must be BIGGER than anyone else, they must guzzle more fuel than anyone else because they can."end quote

It is the American way to build bigger and better because we can, butt not all things use more fuel.

I do not see you as "anti 'merican". I understand and respect you concerns.
The automakers are making more vehicles with smaller engines.
The are so few V-8 cars made now it makes me sad as I am an auto technician and enjoy driving/tuning them.

I see your point now, it’s about thee fuel used
I just don't think you have much ground to bark at American V-8 cars.
It seams to me the world be a lot bigger fish to fry. ,Big

[Karnivore]

I think some one needs to write a guide 100 ways to bash the USA.. Seems like some people just want to bash for any and all reasons

[TheTrebleKing]

well i bash them for fuel consumtion, foreign policy, and war.

other than that they have hot chicks

and nice big sandwiches in NY

so its not all bad

[MadMikeSS]

in years time when the US fuel runs out, they will have to buy all fuel from abroad like most countries, then the V8's and all other fuel guzzling transport will go thirsty, cos fuel will cost too much to run them.

Actually, North America gets most of their fuel from Middle Eastern countries.

[TheTrebleKing]

Actually, North America gets most of their fuel from Middle Eastern countries.

hmm middle eastern countries... Iraq... Oil... US at war in Iraq...

nah wont bother going there

[eddy]

Actually, North America gets most of their fuel from Middle Eastern countries.

I thought they get more from Venezuala, Canada, and Mexico combined than from Middle Eastern countries combined.

[VSpecII]

If you're opinion on a car is based on where it came from, you, quite simply, have some growing up to do.

And as to the rumor of American cars using more fuel, the General Motors 5.7 liter, 405hp LS6 does 27 miles to the gallon. The 7.0 liter LS7 is due for better specs all around, but it's due Q3-4.

Edit: Posting in a quote. I don't wanna be a post-whore.

ok seriously, a tuned nissan skyline can make 350+ BHP out of a 2.5L engine, and take it upwards of 190+ Mph and still use less than half the fuel of a yank-tank V8 5.0L

For one, the RB26DETT is 2.6 liters, hence the 26 in the name. A pair of R33's hold the world 0-60 and 0-200 records (edit: for pro-modified), both with over 1200 hp. They don't have very good milage anymore. Measured GPM, instead of MPG.

THough, the GT-R's never had any good milage. Unlike the GTS-T's and base models, it was designed as a sports car. Especially the N1's. The 1999 R34 GT-R for example, getting (a combined) 22 MPG from the factory. THen consider it's output of 276hp. I guess turbos have never been good on milage though.

either that or a simple mind cant get good performance out of a sub 2 litre engine, so they stick a big engine in it to avoid applying any intellect to the problem.

There are very few cars getting any decent performance out of a 2.0 liter engine. Most in the former glory days of Formula 1's tubo '80s, and the WRC past. None doing it naturally asperated. Don't talk about the Honda F20C or Mazda 13B. Both are riddled by problems. The F20C incapible of braking 100 pound feet untill 6500 RPM. Much good it does to the launch there. A good launch is posible though - if you really want a new clutch.

Though it's not like American companys can't build an efficiant engine. Last I checked, Ford holds the record for F1 wins as an engine builder. 194 wins. It's one of only three makes to every win a 1-2-3 at Le Mans (Porsche of '72 and Audi of '04 are the others). It's a dominant force in rally. It makes over 2 billion a quarter. With those funds, it could do whatever it wanted in terms of engineering. The topic always brung up is the cost. a SC46 costs something like $250 in materials for Ford to build. A 3.0 liter Cosworth V10 on the other hand, is estimated at over 5 million a peice.

[VSpecII]

I thought they get more from Venezuala, Canada, and Mexico combined than from Middle Eastern countries combined.

Canada and Mexico are in North America. I'm just assuming he's talking about external sources.

[STEvil]

vauxhall nova 1.6 twin-turbo,

Sounds fun, they have any problems with the pistons burning up?

quarter the weight of any yank-tank,

1/2 maybe, really depends on what car you chose to put it up against.

would blow away any V8 off the starting line,

A function of gear ratios, torque, flywheel weight, traction, etc.. i'd be more inclined to say the V-8 will win due to increased traction if gear ratios are not of concern.

would be half-way there before the big ol' gas-guzzler hit 2nd gear.

The 1.6 twin turbo probably doesnt have much torque, so now you have to take weight to HP and weight to torgue ratios into consideration as well as flywheel weight again and transmission ratios..

in a magazine i saw the times of a nova 1.8 Gsi, 0-60 in 5.5sec and 150mph top speed.

In a magazine I saw a mac beat a PC for media encoding.

all that from a little car the 1.6 twin turbo would be even better acceleration though

Not bad really, but you are bashing on "yank-tanks" to be blunt.. its a really good idea to do some homework on just what influences acceleration and fuel efficiency before saying car A is better than car B though .


Just on a side note, 100mph is not hard at all.. my old Chevy pickup did 200kph with ease (somewhere over 110mph iirc) and had more to go.. thats just a normally aspirated 350cid V-8 with a 650cfm Holly carb and a mild RV cam. Cant say it was very fuel efficient (it wasnt) but the "yank-tanks" you find now are far more powerfull than that was and are far more fuel efficient also... let alone what you could do by swapping the rear axle or changing gear ratios.

[hollywood]

Actually, North America gets most of their fuel from Middle Eastern countries.

Wrong, I've worked with both the USGS and the Department of Energy, that is an out and out fallacy.

We get about 25% of our oil from Middle Eastern nations. The rest is Domestic / Canada (Oil Shale production) and South America.

People...PLEASE educate yourselves before speaking.

And Treble, just like you think everyone in America drives a 1973 Cadillac V8 with our 65mph speedlimits, I think every Englishman looks and speaks like Austin Powers, you all drink Tea and can't play basketball....


Matter of fact, there are only 6 American cars with a V8 these days.

Chevy Caprice, Ford / Mercury Grand Marquie, Mustang GT, Corvette C5/6, Pontiac Bonneville.

Most other cars use V-6s and inline 4s. Diesel is for Tractor-Trailers (Lorrie) and every other vehicle is a truck or SUV.

What I can say is that people need to get the hell over the whole "My SUV is bigger than yours" thing. As I hate the road-hogging soccer moms on the highway driving a 7000lb. vehicle like it's her old sedan.

[VSpecII]

Chevy Caprice, Ford / Mercury Grand Marquie, Mustang GT, Corvette C5/6, Pontiac Bonneville.

Mustang Cobra, Ford GT, Holde... err... Pontiac GTO, Chrysler 300C, Dodge Magnum, Lincoln LS, and the Ford Thunderbird.

I wond add the Lincoln Town Car, because it's just a derivitive of the Ford Crown Vic, or the Chevy SSR because I don't know if it's a car or truck.

[hollywood]

Mustang Cobra, Ford GT, Holde... err... Pontiac GTO, Chrysler 300C, Dodge Magnum, Lincoln LS, and the Ford Thunderbird.

I wond add the Lincoln Town Car, because it's just a derivitive of the Ford Crown Vic, or the Chevy SSR because I don't know if it's a car or truck.

THanks for wrapping that up...I knew I missed a few.

And yeah...I'm glad GM is FINALLY bringing in some of those HOT Holdens from Oz. Isn't the GTO the Commodore or Senator or something???

I want the new Holden Astra...I don't know why they don't sell them in the States, as they have WAAAAY better styling than the GM crap sold here.

[zabomb4163]

vauxhall nova 1.6 twin-turbo, quarter the weight of any yank-tank, would blow away any V8 off the starting line, would be half-way there before the big ol' gas-guzzler hit 2nd gear.

in a magazine i saw the times of a nova 1.8 Gsi, 0-60 in 5.5sec and 150mph top speed.

http://www.fast-autos.net/chevrolet/...rvettez06.html

0-60 mph: 4.0 sec
Top Speed: 171 mph
Miles Per Gallon: 28 mpg

what kind of gas mileage does the vauxhall nova get?

[[XC]thewildblue]

What do you drive then trebleking ? Vauxhall Novas are chav cars over here in the Uk even if they are tweaked (which is done usually by ripping another engine out of a different car). I personally wouldnt even p1ss on one if it was on fire.

[bxa121]

i think the issue thats emerging here is not something to do with comparable cars etc
i think its an issue to do with fuel efficiency and emmisions ratings.
i dont mean to bash but i personally think that with the Kyoto agreement of fuel emissions being broken gives the impression that the us doenst care about the environment...

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsst...8619/story.htm

it is known that the us is one of the worst offenders of emissions in the planet too

quote
"Documents presented to international negotiators in Bonn, Germany, show Canada, Japan and the United States are responsible for 85 per cent of carbon dioxide emission growth since 1990. "
end quote http://www.carleton.ca/~tpatters/tea.../culprits.html

so i guess its an issue with the preservation of the environment rather than why guzzle more gas if it makes no difference to performance?

p.s FYI here is a rough idea of how long we got to go B4 oil runs out.
see fig 24
http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/conte...ssils/p12.html

$0.02

[STEvil]

I havent heard much on the positive side for Kyoto.. it looks like a lot of political smoke from what a lot of people are saying up here, but i've not read any of it personally so I may be somewhat off base in saying that.

With that said, I really dont think emissions are so much of an environmental concern as they are a health hazard. Proof in the pudding would be we are all suffering from cancer, the trees are still doing fine when we dont cut them down.