Autocascade Drawings

[Unknown_road]

Orignially this unit was build for some kind of nuclear lab work. It was designed to remove 10W of heat @ -185C Chilly tells me that one of the six stages actually used methane - which, afaik, is the lowest boiling refrigerant behind only air and helium.......

with methane you can't get -185*C, the methane probably condenses something like argon or something like that. their are a lot of gasses with lower boiling point then methane.

@Ratax, you seperate the gasses by using the fact that one gas condenses at an other point then the other. gravity seperates the liquid refrigerant from the gaseous refrigerant. to seperate 2 gasses from each other is much harder, you'll need some very advanced equipment for that

[s7e9h3n]

with methane you can't get -185*C, the methane probably condenses something like argon or something like that. their are a lot of gasses with lower boiling point then methane.

Learn something new everyday My refrigerant listing only had air and HE with lower BP's than methane - time to get an updated list lol

[Ratax]

@Ratax, you seperate the gasses by using the fact that one gas condenses at an other point then the other. gravity seperates the liquid refrigerant from the gaseous refrigerant. to seperate 2 gasses from each other is much harder, you'll need some very advanced equipment for that

So you are saying that I must do the phase-separation right in the condenser with the help of the phase-separator rather that after the condenser and just in the phase-separator?

Regards!

[Unknown_road]

I'm sorry I mis read your post somehow. It's okay to seperate after the condensor without modding the condensor.

[Ratax]

OK, thanks for your help

[aussie_guy00000]

In all but one of the autocascade diagrams in this thread, the low stage gas doesn't actually pass through a drier/filter at any stage. Does this matter?, I mean will the lower stage not carry moisture?, if that's the case fair enough, but there's still a risk of the low stage gas carrying contaiminates isn't there, although they should fall to the bottom in the seperator and go thru with the high stage gas I guess. Would anyone like to comment on this?

[wdrzal]

Your not sussposed to have "moisture" in a refrigeration system.

[aussie_guy00000]

Ideally not of course. I'm obviously not understanding the role of the drier in the system. I was under the impression that it filtered out any impurities and moisture that may be in the system. What other purpose do they serve?

[star882]

I was under the impression that it filtered out any impurities and moisture that may be in the system. What other purpose do they serve?

That's about all!

[wdrzal]

many of the spun copper "service filters" are filter only and do not have any desiccant material in them to asorb moisture.

second if you do have a filter/dryer it does not remove the moisture from in the system, it only traps it, HOPEFULLY.

A filter/dryer should be looked at as a "precaution" and not a substitute for good assembly and dehydration practices.

[aussie_guy00000]

many of the spun copper "service filters" are filter only and do not have any desiccant material in them to asorb moisture.

second if you do have a filter/dryer it does not remove the moisture from in the system, it only traps it, HOPEFULLY.

A filter/dryer should be looked at as a "precaution" and not a substitute for good assembly and dehydration practices.

Well obviously it just traps the moisture, it doesn't just disappear, or evaporate into thin air (pun intended ).
So getting back to my original point, so it wouldn't really matter that the low stage gas doesn't at any point pass thru a filter/drier.

[cryo-tek]

What do you think about this? An autocascade
It would have a filter drier and HP safty. Drill the 3/8, stuff the captube in and braze. slide the 3/8 onto the 5/8.

1/4 discharge and 1/2 suction might work if the captubes are small.

Just sitting in the cold and thinking with noone to talk to........

[Carlz0r]

What do you think about this? An autocascade
It would have a filter drier and HP safty. Drill the 3/8, stuff the captube in and braze. slide the 3/8 onto the 5/8.

1/4 discharge and 1/2 suction might work if the captubes are small.

Just sitting in the cold and thinking with noone to talk to........

That isnt an auto cascade, that's just a single stage with a SLHX.

[n00b 0f l337]

Just sitting in the cold and thinking with noone to talk to........

Time to get AIM, I'm as bored as you.

[cryo-tek]

Rookie mistake, I missed out on subcooling the #3 captube. This would use a mixed gas charge. -80c

[n00b 0f l337]

Hmmm interesting idea. The idea being to just condense a 2nd stage gas or so (ethane maybe?) in the end of the high side? Whats to stop the ethane from them going out cap tube 1?

[s7e9h3n]

That isnt an auto cascade, that's just a single stage with a SLHX.

Trust me, this guy knows his stuff Cryo, if you're bored, give me a call...there's lots of stuff for us to discuss

[cryo-tek]

Hmmm interesting idea. The idea being to just condense a 2nd stage gas or so (ethane maybe?) in the end of the high side? Whats to stop the ethane from them going out cap tube 1?

How about R-123 and R-23 or R-123 and R-503. The R-503 should get colder.

For the green EU people R-245fa and R-125 might do. I think zerol 150 oil would be a must.

R-290 could help, just a little !

The question is " who is going to build it?"

[Carlz0r]

That isnt an auto cascade, that's just a single stage with a SLHX.

Nevermind. I think it's time for a new monitor. Didn't see the cap tubes in there. Doh *smacks forehead*.

[cryo-tek]

Nevermind. I think it's time for a new monitor. Didn't see the cap tubes in there. Doh *smacks forehead*.

Your monitor is fine, my drawing sucked. I'm learning. look I can use the smilies now

[Carlz0r]

Your monitor is fine, my drawing sucked. I'm learning. look I can use the smilies now

Nah, I checked it on my dad's monitor and I can see the captubes in the first drawing, but I can't when I view it on my monitor.

[jinu117]

Your monitor is fine, my drawing sucked. I'm learning. look I can use the smilies now

Actually building similar to that right now... but no 3 cap tubing... is 3 cap tubing for 3 gases in total really? To phase out the separation process? I am only using 2 cap atm. (My mind is whirring away thinking about another loop in practical size lol)

[Comp-Freak]

Do you think there will be enough phase seperation in that tube? I can't imagine it will work like a real phase seperator.

[Edit] Whow, am I missing something? I was thinking all of this was happening in the flextube, but I suppose it's just a piece of tube?

[cryo-tek]

Do you think there will be enough phase seperation in that tube? I can't imagine it will work like a real phase seperator.

[Edit] Whow, am I missing something? I was thinking all of this was happening in the flextube, but I suppose it's just a piece of tube?

Your on it comp_freak, Think K.I.S.S.( not the band.)
This is supposed to be an easy to build Basic partial separation auto cascade. It’s just copper tube. Cover it with K-Flex and roll it up. The evap should be as close to the cold end as possible. I’m thinking the -80c range and 75 watts. As soon as I find my captube flow chart I’ll throw that information in. It’s just a toy

[Nyx]

@cryo-tek do you think it is possible for an autocascade to remove huge loads withouht a sharp rise in pressures. Lets say to cool a constant load of 500Watt or maybe more.

And if it is possible what are the recommended gas,compressor size and heat exchanger designs to remove such huge loads.
not intending to build it of course, just an itch to get to know how industrial autocascade builders do their work.