Some simple questions from a simple soul...
Does an iwaki md15 give of a lot of heat to the water?
And how loud is it?
Some simple questions from a simple soul...
Does an iwaki md15 give of a lot of heat to the water?
And how loud is it?
Dutch Specs
The "budget" rig (had to go eco to buy a ridiculas expensive case so the rest is 2nd hand)
E6600 // ebayd 2x1gb pc4200 D9DQW halfway on the board tricked // Asus P5B dlx // EVGA 8800GT 512MB SC// Silverstone Temjin TJ07S // Tagan TG480 // WD740GD // 2x Samsung 500Gb T166
Anyone have any idea how loud 2 MCP650s would be running together?
DFI LP LT X38-T2R
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450
Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme
2x2GB OCZ Reaper DDR2 PC8500
eVGA 9800 GX2
WD Raptor X 150GB
PCP&P 750W Silencer
CM Stacker 830 SE
afaik iwakis are very silent and if you can post the specs of the pump (power consumption) i can tell you how much heat it will probably add to the loop.
torin, thats hard to say...
why do you want two pumps and why do you want the mcp650? not that i think its a bad pump, just wondering.
Space constraints... I want to place a divider in my rad box to seperate the airflow around my rad from the airflow around my pump(s).... and to fit an Iwaki/BlueLine in a completely seperate space from the rad would take a really big box, bigger than I wanted to make... but 2 Laing D4s would fit perfectly in the extra space not taken up by the rad.
DFI LP LT X38-T2R
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450
Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme
2x2GB OCZ Reaper DDR2 PC8500
eVGA 9800 GX2
WD Raptor X 150GB
PCP&P 750W Silencer
CM Stacker 830 SE
Torin, about the noise. The two of those pumps in series is a supposed to be kinda noisy. If you want someone who really knows, go over to procooling and ask cathar. you can find him all over the water cooling forums. He runs those pumps in series.
Vandread: the Iwaki Md-15 is incredibly queit, as are all of the iwakis. The iwakis use a design that seperatesthe impeller from the rest of the pump to reduce heat transfer to water so it should not be bad at all given that it is a high power pump.
Pulsar: That is a mag pump. They have great specs, but are dangerous. They are very much so prone to leaks. I dont suggest getting one at all. I have heard many more horror stories than I have heard succes stories with those pumps.
Saaya: Cathar did some calculations with his Md-30 and the amount of heat that it dumps into the water as it goes through the pump is roughly .5C if that. Its very very minimal when u consider the C/W of water. considering this information, the impact of having the rad before the heatsinks ins nearly indistinguisable, and will have nearly 0 affect on your overclock and your temperatures. I would say the end reuslt will be a cpu tempueratre drop of .1C with the rad after the pump. And u have to also consdier the pressure drop of going through the rad. So in the end u come up pretty much even.
thxOriginally Posted by MaxxxRacer
Now lets hope they can suply me with a nice md15 for a nice price here in holland
Dutch Specs
The "budget" rig (had to go eco to buy a ridiculas expensive case so the rest is 2nd hand
E6600 // ebayd 2x1gb pc4200 D9DQW halfway on the board tricked // Asus P5B dlx // EVGA 8800GT 512MB SC// Silverstone Temjin TJ07S // Tagan TG480 // WD740GD // 2x Samsung 500Gb T166
Finding a sane price on an iwaki anywhere is impossible. They are all insanely expensive. But worth every penny.
I'm trying directly from the import company... lets hope they are nice and send me one cheap
Dutch Specs
The "budget" rig (had to go eco to buy a ridiculas expensive case so the rest is 2nd hand
E6600 // ebayd 2x1gb pc4200 D9DQW halfway on the board tricked // Asus P5B dlx // EVGA 8800GT 512MB SC// Silverstone Temjin TJ07S // Tagan TG480 // WD740GD // 2x Samsung 500Gb T166
ahh ic.. good idea. didnt know u could do that. Atleats in small quantities. Usually they make u order them by the 100's
the iwaki MD-20r has power input of 50watts and power output of 20watts ... which means 30watts are converted to heat and dumped into the water/air ... (most of it goes into the air IMO)
water is more conductive and absorbs the heat faster, and its closer to the hot parts of the pump, so im not sure about most of the heat going to the air and not the water. most people have the pump in the case with a case temp that is above the ambient temp, and the rads are usually cooling the water to ambient temp or very very close to it, so the water is cooler as the air as well, wich means the heat will rather go to the water.
correct me if im wrong.
max, i thougt there is no difference with ahving the radiator in front or after the pump flow wise... the restricitions are the same, whether the pump is sucking the water from one side to the other or pulling it from one side to the other, no?
and the difference is minimal, yes, but it IS cooler that way afaikhardly meassurable in most cases, but it IS cooler
welcome to XtremeSystems
hahahahah
and with pumps that emit more than the iwaki to the water there will actually be a temp drop of 1C, if you ask me thats a nice tweak
and thats waht i was referring to, people with REALLY powerfull pumps, like 1000gph and sick stuff like that, seen several people with pumps like that already
pump consumes 250W and is rather noisy, plus its like 4x the size of an iwaki
:X
thats why im using my enermax 300gph value inline pump most of the time.
Last edited by saaya; 10-06-2004 at 10:43 AM.
Saaya, about the flow being different. The total amount of water movement is exactly the same (same componenets different order), But the pressure being delivered to the waterblock wil be less. When there is nothing before the waterblock then it can jet the water into the block with more force. then the water will be slowed down as it goes through the block. Let me know if it that makes any sense.
here is the thing about pumps dumping heat into the water. If your comptuter system dumps 100 wats into the water (the cpu, if u only have hte cpu cooler conected) and u have a 250 watt pump ur not doing yourself any service. With 250 watts of pump then a decent portion (prolly around 75 watts will be dumped into the water that is ocnsidering itsa good pump that is designed not to dump heat into the water) that means that the water is going to get warm enough to make it so that the extra flow is not going to help you. thats just the way it is...
Basicly, you want your pump wattage to be less than the cpu wattage. Granted if you have the gpu in the loop, then u want the gpu+cpu wattage to be more than the pump. IF it isnt then it will hurt ur perfromance.
About the iwakis, and how they dump heat into the water: I agree that most of it is dumped into the air. If u feel the back half of the pump it is very warm, but if u touch where the head is, it is very cool. this says to me that the pump is not putting much heat into the water. Iwaki even states this as one of their design features. The head is seperated from the motor to keep it cool. the only problem with that being that the motor itself gets hotter due to nothing cooling it.
Saaya, with your 250watt pump, well lets just say ur not doing urself any favors there. your system doesnt drain 250 watts even under max load with it overclocked. The only thing that coems close is a 6800ultra extreme and a 3.6ghz prescott... Actualy that might actually get to 250 watts if im not mistaken.
Where is the cheapest place I can find a Laing D4? I cheapest one I've found is a DD model for $70 + s/h.
And what is the difference between the muffled and non-muffled versions? Any performance differences?
DFI LP LT X38-T2R
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450
Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme
2x2GB OCZ Reaper DDR2 PC8500
eVGA 9800 GX2
WD Raptor X 150GB
PCP&P 750W Silencer
CM Stacker 830 SE
what I want to see is a comparison between the 4 pumps ...
blueline hd20 consumes the least power at 45watts ...
a sound pressure comparison would be great ...
yes, that makes sence...
100% pressure -> block ->80% pressure -> rad -> 60% pressure
100% pressure ->radiator -> 80% pressure -> block -> 60% pressure
thats what you mean right?
but then think about this, after the block with a lower pressure cmes what? the pump again. the pump sucks the water from the back as fast as it blows it to the front in a closed loop. so it pulls the water again.
a restriction in the loop increases the pressure and reduces the flowspeed, no?
but in a closed loop we always have the same flowspeed, everywhere in the loop? am i wrong? this is confusing me
hmmmm i keep thinking about it but im not sure....
ok, open loop:
a pump creates a pressure shift. low pressure on one side and high pressure on the other, this makes the water move from a higher pressure region (res) towards the pump (inlet) wich is a lower pressure region. and from the pump (outlet) wich is a higher pressure region it moves to a lower pressure region (res)
restrictions create a higher pressure region on the side the water is comming from. the preassure on the side of the restriction the water is flowing to is defined by the pressure its flowing to.
so we kinda have to think backwards, a restriction at the end of an open loop increases the pressure in the entire loop in the direction the water is comming from.
so for an open loop your right, the pressure drops after each restriction (rad/block)
but what about a closed loop?
and now the most important question, does the pressure matter at all?
a block performs not better with water under a higher pressure in it as the density of the water hardly changes at all, BUT it perfoms better the higher pressure DIFFERENCE between the inlet and the outlet is, right?
so now we need to think and find out if the pressure difference between the blocks inlet and outlet changes
i know, thats why im not using my 250W pump and made that post saying people should not get too big pumps as more and more gph isnt always better, theres a time where its just too much because the heat of the pump gets involved.
what does it have to do with the gpu and cpu wattage? id rather say it has to do with the rads capability of removing heat. if your rad is at its limits of dissipating the heat without giving you higher than ambient water temps, den a 10-20W of extra heat from a bigger pump can mean a few °C higher water temps.
i need an iwaki
??? im not using that pump, i told you guys im not using it but a 300gph eheim value pump... and i said myself that im not using it as it adds way too much heat to the water and doesnt help my temps, so please stop lecturing me, lol
and a prescott 3.6ghz with a 6800ultra will be 250W+ stock
Last edited by saaya; 10-07-2004 at 05:04 AM.
saaya, from my knowledge of pumps, they don't suck as good as they blow (pun intended
using a water loop comparison to a simple electric circuit (battery, resistor, capacity, bulb), the water(electron) flow will be the same in every part of the circuit ... so, add all psi values from the parts and look at the P-Q curve to find actual flow ...
one thing that WILL change is the velocity of flow ... on the new storm block, velocity will be higher (part of the block design, but not point of the post) ...
also, like my experience with the SLK947U, I think it is possible to reach a point, where higher flow will not make a difference (I changed 80mm tornado for a 92mm tornado) ... assuming pump doesn't add any heat in the water ...
Saaya, think of it this way. the engergy that the pump has put into the water is the velocity and force it has. when the water goes through something restricing this force is reduced. in a waterblock like thew new swifty who gives tos. it doesnt matter. but for the tdx rbx and storm (as well as others) it is injecting the water into the block. thus it needs to have as much energy (not heat engergy) as it can get to push itself in there. It bleeds off pressure when it goes through the block, and you want the maximum psi the pump can deliver when it goes into the block. the force that the water is moving into my res is not the same as it is when its going into my waterblock... flow is the same but that is a bit different. I know its hard to believe and understand (dont quite fully understand it myself) but it works out.
As far as the wattage of the gpu and cpu needing to be higer than the pump, my point was t hat if the heat the pump is putting into te water is higher than that of the gpu or cpu, you might as well get a smaller pump, or add yoursef another video card.. lol Granted with a really huge rad then it will help counteract this effect, but if you have a low power consumption, having more water flow is only going to get it so cool. there is the effeciency of the blocks themselves that determine the absolute coolest temp. i hope this makes more sense. i learned this from cathar btw.
I was just messing with you on the 250wat pump saaya. i know u said that u dont use it any more. i just dont want other ppl thinking that its a good idea. best to say it twice that its not helpful.. sometimes ppl dont read everything...
And yes you do need an iwaki. they absolutley rule. If iwaki made a md-40 wit 1/2inch barbs that would be the sweetest. no modding and like 50 feet of head. at that point u would be testing the psi raitng on the cpu and gpu blocks! lol
I think the enerjy that is not heat you are reffering to is "momentum", correct?
also, I think as long as the total heat put into water by ALL components that actually DO put heat in the water don't exceed the "threshhold" for the rad, it's all fine ...
also, it is very nice when the pump puts the east amount of heat into the water as possible
Which pump, out of three discussed here, is the most silent of them all?
probably the weakest power eheim.
But to be honest i really dont know...
Some people will probably say which is the quietest, but they dont really know as they havnt used every one of the pumps on my tut. and there arnt any noise mesaurments for them...
But to be honest, most of them are very quiet...
Eheim 1046--Dead Silent
Hail to extreme cooling!
As pointed out, the Z type Iwakis are so hard for people to find they often use the L instead. Well here is a site that DOES have the Iwaki Z, and they have it in both the MD20RLZT (threaded inlet/outlet) & they have the even harder to find MD20RLZ (hose barbs on the pump already). They also have the WMD20RLZT with the american moter which is said to be both a bit hoter running & a bit louder.
www.customaquatic.com
Anyone considering buying the L type Iwaki should really give the Panworld/Blueline a good look first. The reason to buy & pay the price of the Iwaki's is to get the Z type pumps, otherwise the Panworld PX40 is a nearly identical match for the MD20L type Iwaki. And it's a lot lower priced. And from reading at differant sites regarding these pumps (aquarium sites) the PX40's noise level is compared to that of the Iwaki MD20 with the japanese motor. You can buy these Panworld pumps at:
www.marinedepot.com
Another site that offers Panworld/Blueline pumps.
www.premiumaquatics.com
They have the 30PX which is equal to the MD15 for $92.00
If you are willing to go used, you might find an Iwaki RZ on ebay occasionally. I got my MD-30RZ off their for 69 bucks (add on another 15 for shipping). I actually got mine less than 4 months ago. The guy selling them was from a company that actually had just upgraded to an even more powerful Iwaki pump in some huge manufacturing machine; he personally guaranteed that the company had tested them and even opened them up for cleaning and wear and tear check. I am really satisfied with it, and the impeller does look in good condition.
I have to agree in general that the Iwaki pumps are silent. Although mine is so powerful it does have this sort of powering up humm. It kind of reminds me of the sound effect they used for the Delorian (spelling???) in Back to the Future.
The Iwaki noise is a deeper sound. It isnt like the whiny sound of fans. Its a powerful rumbling type of sound. It feels like a really weak sub (speaker) is going. But its low enough that when the computers fans are on (even on low) it gets washed out and u cant tell its there. Just as long as the pump doesnt touch anything metal. If the pump touches your case it will sound like you are running a saw zall in ur room. It makes the case vibrate like a back massager... Thats why i run my pump with it sitting on the carpet outside of the case.. makes tubing easier and it makes the system quieter and easier to work on.. Just not portable.
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks