First time build, any ideas?

[Pathman]

Hi all, long-time lurker first time poster. I am about to take the plunge and buy my first desktop in close to 10 years! I can’t wait. My current machine has been good to me but it’s time to face facts and start over. I have built machines at work, and my current machine has been fiddled w\ and upgraded so much that pretty much only the board and the case are left so I am comfortable putting a machine together. This will be, however, my first time starting from scratch and the first time w\ liquid cooled parts so I was wondering if I could get some advice and maybe some guidance if I have compatibility issues. Thanks in advance for looking. I am looking for any nods of approval, disapproval, words of wisdom or just any input you guys might have.

First, the case and power supply. I am up in the air about this. I’m not sure I want to have to do a whole lot of “modding” out of the gate. I am open to external radiation, but I would prefer internal. Here are my options, but I am not heart-set on any of them:

Antec Sonata III 500 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129024
This case looks like a good deal and solid. Plus the power supply seems to be pretty good quality.

Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $130
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129025
More expensive, and doesn’t come w\ a power supply, but a beautiful case.

Rosewill R5605-BK 0.8mm Japanese Cold Rolled Steel Front Mesh Design Dual 120mm Fans ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811147083

COOLER MASTER Elite 330 RC-330-KKN1-GP Black SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119115
This one also has a good combo deal where I can get this and the COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power RP-600-PCAR 600W ATX from factor 12V V2.01 Power Supply for $120.

Next, the motherboard.

Currently my front-runner is the ASUS P5K PRO LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard for $105
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131275
This isn’t top of the line, but it seems to be a solid bang-for-the-buck board.
2 PCIe slots so I could sli it if I wanted and seems pretty future-proof

The CPU. I am very up in the air on this.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor $190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115017

Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115036

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor – OEM $185
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115018
this one has a combo deal w\ Antec True Power Trio TP3-650 650W ATX12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply with Three 12V Rails
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371001
for a total of $235

Next is the video card. Here are my front-runners:

EVGA 896-P3-1260-AR GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card $240
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130370

or two of these:
MSI NX8800GT 512M OC GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card Overclocked to 660Mhz for ~ $170 each after rebate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127329

Finally, I have picked the following for DVD, HD and Ram:

LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 8X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache E-IDE/ATAPI 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106245

Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000GLFS 300GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM $265
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136260

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory $67
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231122

Now, the cooling – the whole reason we’re here:

D-TEK FuZion v2 Universal CPU Waterblock - 1/2"
Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Hi-Flo Reservoir
The pa160 radiator

And I haven’t decided on the pump, or the clamps, tubes etc.
I would also like to watercool my video card so I would need to decide there as well. A decision that might impact whether or not I go the sli route as well…

I am not really sure why to buy all of this stuff - it seems like I can get most of it from www.petrastechshop.com but I am open to suggestions here as well.

Basically, I am not a hard-core gamer, but I would like to be able to play the occasional game and have it look nice. I would like to buy crisis, and I own TF2\halflife etc.
My son plays WOW which will run on pretty much anything, but again – it would be nice to have it look nice. My number one concern, after performance of course, is future-proofing this machine as much as possible. I pride myself on making a wise purchase w\ my last machine which is why it has lasted with me so long and this is something that I would like to repeat!
Future-proofing in my opinion starts w\ the motherboard, then the case and to some extent the chip. I know DDR3 is on the rise, but there is no way I can justify the cost right now. Are those ddr3 boards backwords compatable w\ ddr2 ram?

Anyway, I know this is an extremely long post, but I like to think I’ve done my research so that I’m not just another “what should I buy” post… thanks for looking!
Brian

[BreeSpree]

If your asking for people's opinion here's mine.
Antec P182
An E8600 maybe, for CPU, get the most powerful dual-core for sure.
A single GTX 260 should cover you well
Your drives and RAM are fine
Maybe use a different rad? It will be haand it should turn out realrd to mount a PA160 and you can easily attach a 120.3 rad on the back using a rad box and it should turn out real nice. Other than that, Swiftech makes a Antec P180 model, which is pre-set up. That would work too.

Edit: And no, DDR3 is not backwards compatible.

[Riggs]

P35=No SLi you need nVidia chipset to do that. Maybe a P45 would suit you well, such as the P5Q?

[BreeSpree]

By the way, I just learned that the 18 watt DDC is worse than the 10 watt DDC, so for the pump either get a 10 watt DDC or a D5(Swiftech 655). Use either Tygon or Masterkleer tubing. Size is your choice, I reccommend 7/16 because it is leakproof without clamps. If you're going to use clamps (you should) then use some standard worm clamps. And yeah get the stuff at PTS, Sidewinder, Jab-Tech, Performance PC's. I just really don't reccommend Frozen CPU because it is overpriced to say the least.

[Freaky Freezer]

I reccommend 7/16 because it is leakproof without clamps.

Nothing is leak-proof with clamps let alone without clamps. Always use clamps no matter what fitting and what size tubing. Not using clamps is like not using a condom cause, "you can just tell she's clean"

Excuse the crude analogy.

[Kibbler]

By the way, I just learned that the 18 watt DDC is worse than the 10 watt DDC

in what way, exactly??

Size is your choice, I reccommend 7/16 because it is leakproof without clamps.

Recommendations are like , everyone has one. But frankly this is just terrible advice.

I would also avoid P180/P182. Build quality is nice and all but the internal compartmentalization will really limit your watercooling options.

[turtletrax]

in what way, exactly??


Recommendations are like , everyone has one. But frankly this is just terrible advice.

I would also avoid P180/P182. Build quality is nice and all but the internal compartmentalization will really limit your watercooling options.

QFT, in every way...

[inCore]

The P182 enables you to use a double radiator at the bottom and possibly a single inside, depending on if you're smart with your placement. More than that would be asking too much from it. I had to do some reasonably heavy modifications to my case to get it all to fit.

[Pathman]

wow - the advice is pouring in! Thanks everyone. I do see that I did not pick an sli board. while we're on that topic, what is the general opinion (if there is one) around here on SLI anyway? Are two cards that close together too hard to liquid cool?

[BreeSpree]

The P182 enables you to use a double radiator at the bottom and possibly a single inside, depending on if you're smart with your placement. More than that would be asking too much from it. I had to do some reasonably heavy modifications to my case to get it all to fit.

This is what I meant. I just thought the P182 was the best choice from the ones provided, if you read the thread. If it is not, post a better case, that he posted he wanted to use. And by the comment of the 7/16 tubing, I believe you guys who posted before may have taken it out of context. I said it was a reccomendation and I also said to use clamps to make sure it is leak-proof. His thread is asking for opinions, and so I gave mine. Supposedly Coolmiester posted a thread that showed that the heat dump from an 18watt DDC makes the liquid temp 4-5 degrees higher than that if you were using a 10 watt DDC. Sorry, if my comments offended anyone, I hope this clears it up. And by the way, most of my info has come from XS where I can cite my sources.

[septim]

regarding usage of ddc3.1 or 3.2 this would probably still depend on which blocks and how many blocks and the usual what size your radiator/s and fan preference and noise tolerance would be...

i like my older ddc-2, they're still working for me...

oh and if you want no clamps, use some Bitspower/DD Fatboys 1/2 high flow barbs with 7/16 tubing. very hard to remove. but i still like to use my S/s worm drives just to be safer...

[Riggs]

wow - the advice is pouring in! Thanks everyone. I do see that I did not pick an sli board. while we're on that topic, what is the general opinion (if there is one) around here on SLI anyway? Are two cards that close together too hard to liquid cool?

I dont really think SLi would be worth it for you. You get a buggy board, and then your video cards wont run at double all the time. You're better off to get a single gpu card. It should'nt be hard to liquid cool, they are usually single slot with the nozzles facing outwrards. I think the 8800GT is overpriced for that model. This is a little more price fitting.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133232

SLi savings 221 total. 199 AR. I think that's a great deal, its just your choice whether you want a nvidia board. Options are much more limited.

[Pathman]

I dont really think SLi would be worth it for you. You get a buggy board, and then your video cards wont run at double all the time. You're better off to get a single gpu card. It should'nt be hard to liquid cool, they are usually single slot with the nozzles facing outwrards.

this is your opinion on SLI in general I take it? Either way, perhaps you are right. I might be better off sticking with the EVGA card and the motherboard...

[bigslappy]

Hi all, long-time lurker first time poster. I am about to take the plunge and buy my first desktop in close to 10 years! I can’t wait. My current machine has been good to me but it’s time to face facts and start over. I have built machines at work, and my current machine has been fiddled w\ and upgraded so much that pretty much only the board and the case are left so I am comfortable putting a machine together. This will be, however, my first time starting from scratch and the first time w\ liquid cooled parts so I was wondering if I could get some advice and maybe some guidance if I have compatibility issues. Thanks in advance for looking. I am looking for any nods of approval, disapproval, words of wisdom or just any input you guys might have.

First, the case and power supply.

Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $130
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129025
More expensive, and doesn’t come w\ a power supply, but a beautiful case.

i just sold a modded antec 182 that was on specail on newegg for $67 delivered one of those shell shocker deals
they will be back on sale agin
as it been phasded out & newegg has a bunch !
that case has 2 slide out drive holders & if yer not wanting a bunch of HHd's you can do without the lower one & even the top one that opens a huge amount of space in the GREAT LOOKING case for a pump & rad ,res
if ya got a dremel & can cut steel with a cutoff wheel then you can mount the dvd's & HHd's in the CD drive area as i just did
Sorry no pix it was a rush job for a family member
as for MoBo i'd go with a ATI compatable Asus MoBo with the P45 chipset & a 4870 Vid card OR a 4870X2 (yer getting 2 GPU on one card thus only one block to buy)vid card as u get more bang fer ya buck same with the Q6600 OR one of the wolfdales
PC power & cooling 750 crossfire PSU are also on sale @ newegg & that is the best single rail in that range of PSU

ALL this is I M H O ... as u can see from above everyone has great ideas on this but the ATI cards are the best price for what u get for now !

[Pathman]

Ok, so here's what i've settled on:

SILVERSTONE SST-TJ07-BW
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163067

ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131284

Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115036

VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129113

G.SKILL 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Quad Kit Desktop Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231151

Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000GLFS 300GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136260

LITE-ON Black DVD Burner with LightScribe
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106245

PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI Certified (Dual 8800 GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703009

My first question is, how does the compatability look?
Is 750w 60A enough oomph to run everything i've got crammed in there?

Assuming al of that is ok, moving back to WC parts...I gather that most people on here think Northbridge, PSU and ram water cooling is not worth it so i am going to stick w\ CPU and GPU cooling.

Like I said in my original post, i am not a hardcore gamer or like that and although I will dabble in overclocking a little bit, my number one priority is for a silent machine. So with that in mind, I would really appreciate some further assistance on product selection. I went w\ that case b\c it's nice and big and i feel like i can get away with minimal modification. I do own a dremel and i am actually pretty good w\ my hands, but i'm not sure i'm ready to walk down that path with a computer case...

as for my loop, how does this sound?
pump -> rad -> split -> CPU & GPU or should the pump come before the radiator?

which pump is generally considered the best? How do you guys feel about AC vs DC? I suppose if i am going to run off of my PSU then the 750w question comes back - should i go up to 1000?

what kind of thermal paste should I get?

any suggestions on the best place to buy tubing?

and finally - what is the best way to measure temperature inside my machine?
how do i check the temp of the coolant leaving the radiator?

thanks and sorry i'm such a newbie!

[iandh]

in what way, exactly??


Recommendations are like , everyone has one. But frankly this is just terrible advice.

I would also avoid P180/P182. Build quality is nice and all but the internal compartmentalization will really limit your watercooling options.

Please don't bash other's suggestions with no more justification than "it's terrible".

There are literally legions of watercoolers that use 7/16" tubing on 1/2" barbs without clamps, including myself, with no problems whatsoever, for years now across multiple builds. The only time I've ever seen a failure is with old tired tubing on the inlet to a restrictive block, and by then your o-rings are all rotten as hell and you should have rebuilt by now anyways.

If I was running a restrictive block, I would have a clamp on its inlet anyways from day one. Systems that use unrestrictive blocks such as the fuzion develop very low loop pressure, and therefore on tight fitting tubing, clamps are nothing more than ornamental.

I've never had a failure personally, and I'm talking probably hundreds of connections now. If you add together all of the other people that use 7/16", we are probably talking thousands upon thousands of leak-free connections.

I've pressure tested 7/16" tubing up to 25psi without popping off of 1/2" fittings, and most loops never exceeed 5psi.

Unless he is using an Ek Supreme with dual DDC2's or an Iwaki, he should be just fine.





Anyways, to the OP, the sonata III is a hard to beat deal for the money, with a very decent PSU, and enough room inside to get things done. You don't need to spend $250-300 on case and PSU to be happy with your system. Once you build it up it just sits there... so as long as it has what you need, it's good.

[Pathman]

Thanks for the reply. Is the SIII big enough? I was thinking I would be best suited w\ a full size ATZ. Also, I am still up in the air on power supply. The sonata comes w\ a 500w PSU. I have also read that that this particular case has some grounding issues...

[iandh]

Thanks for the reply. Is the SIII big enough? I was thinking I would be best suited w\ a full size ATZ. Also, I am still up in the air on power supply. The sonata comes w\ a 500w PSU. I have also read that that this particular case has some grounding issues...

I suppose if you mounted your mobo without checking the location of the mounting studs, that could cause a grounding issue, other than that a case is a case pretty much.


I wasn't trying to steer you away from an expensive/large case... they are nice to work in and for the most part you get what you pay for. That said, the SIII/Antec 500w combo is by far one of the best bang-for-buck combos you can get. You'll need to go external on your radiator for sure though, so that may be a concern. Other than that you should have no problem fitting in a pump and res. somewhere.

[Pathman]

yeah - i'd definitely prefer to keep everything internal. this is why i want the full tower
:-)

[Dangals]

My first question is, how does the compatability look?
Is 750w 60A enough oomph to run everything i've got crammed in there?

Should be more than ample.

as for my loop, how does this sound?
pump -> rad -> split -> CPU & GPU or should the pump come before the radiator?

You would probably be better off just running the gpu straight after the cpu than using a split as temps will stay the same but your flow will be slightly better off for it.

which pump is generally considered the best? How do you guys feel about AC vs DC? I suppose if i am going to run off of my PSU then the 750w question comes back - should i go up to 1000?

the 750w is fine - pump wise either the DDC3.2 or D5 are great pumps.

what kind of thermal paste should I get?

This is usually personal preference - I tend to use MX-2

any suggestions on the best place to buy tubing?

Depends on where you are located

thanks and sorry i'm such a newbie!

Looks like a great selection of parts you have there - you will love the TJ07 case to work with, lots of room. Just make sure you include lots of pics to helps us with our daily fix

[Jimmer411]

If your looking to watercool make your life easier a get a UFO or Ascension. You will hate life inside the P182 and will want something bigger. Many here would suggest the TJ07 or Stacker but then you start getting into UFO price territory and a MM UFO is by far 10x the case the TJ07 is for watercooling. You can get a UFO as cheap as 280 USD...

[Pathman]

i did look into a mountain mod case, but to be honest - i had no idea where to start really. they do look beautiful, i must admit but you know... you are right, i am scraping the same price range anyway - maybe it would be worth moving up.

I noticed some of those cases house 2 radiators. do you run them in serial right next to each other for additional cooling phases or do you put them elsewhere in the line?

also, what about northbridges? worth cooling?

[Pathman]

Looks like a great selection of parts you have there - you will love the TJ07 case to work with, lots of room. Just make sure you include lots of pics to helps us with our daily fix

hehe - thanks for the help! as for your suggestion on the loop,
wouldnt running from CPU to GPU mean losing some efficiency?

[Kibbler]

Please don't bash other's suggestions with no more justification than "it's terrible".

There are literally legions of watercoolers that use 7/16" tubing on 1/2" barbs without clamps, including myself, with no problems whatsoever, for years now across multiple builds. The only time I've ever seen a failure is with old tired tubing on the inlet to a restrictive block, and by then your o-rings are all rotten as hell and you should have rebuilt by now anyways.

If I was running a restrictive block, I would have a clamp on its inlet anyways from day one. Systems that use unrestrictive blocks such as the fuzion develop very low loop pressure, and therefore on tight fitting tubing, clamps are nothing more than ornamental.

I've never had a failure personally, and I'm talking probably hundreds of connections now. If you add together all of the other people that use 7/16", we are probably talking thousands upon thousands of leak-free connections.

I've pressure tested 7/16" tubing up to 25psi without popping off of 1/2" fittings, and most loops never exceeed 5psi.

Unless he is using an Ek Supreme with dual DDC2's or an Iwaki, he should be just fine.

My apologies, my tone and comment was not called for. I respectfully disagree with you on the basis that clamps are inexpensive (except for evil's probably) and unobtrusive relative to the blood, sweat, tears, and money that we put into our systems. And if (big if) having them meant the difference between no leak and a catastrophic leak, I'd rather not take my chances. EDIT: And I make no assumptions about how often the OP intends to redo his loops. Nobody wants to end up as the unlucky outlier, I'm sure Eddie can attest to that. The OP can decide for himself.

hehe - thanks for the help! as for your suggestion on the loop,
wouldnt running from CPU to GPU mean losing some efficiency?

Not exactly. IIRC Spiltting loops can create funny unpredictable results. For example if 1 side of the loop is more restrictive than another, then coolant will "prefer" to flow thru the less restrictive loop. What that means for you, if you have an EK Supreme (restrictive) and a Dtek GFX2 (less restrictive) in split loops, then CPU temps might suffer because more coolant is flowing thru the GPU loop.

Think about it this extreme example: If you split a loop and plug up 1 side, then all the coolant will flow thru the other side.

I'll leave the technical explanation to someone more knowledgeable.

[Pathman]

that's a good point. i hadn't thought about it that way. what about adding a second radiator between the two blocks? or am i making too much of it?

how do people measure temp in there machines and is there a way to measure specific parts of the loop? how accurate and expensive are infrared thermometers?

sorry for all the questions! but i am getting great help, why stop asking? :-0