Vapochill LS and Mach ST/GT test part1

[petervandamned]

A quick test between the leading Phase Change units (part 1)



The Vapochill light speed from Asetek
The Mach II GT from nVENTIV:
The Mach II ST from nVENTIV:


Both come without the upper case

Prices :

Vapochill light Speed = € 799 + Freight
Mach II GT = € 849 + Freight
Mach II ST = € 550 + Freight



The test is been taken with a room temperature 20 degrees, using in both units the same test rig. Asus P4C800 + PIV 3.4 0C.

The settings were identical in all tests, the same main board and CPU were used each time only the cooler was changed. I tested at 1.55V, 1.65V, 1.75V and 1.85V bios settings.

Test method : stressed 10 minutes each with Prime95 torture (Small FFTs - max FPU stress) test then screenshot taken. All units were running at 100% fan speed. Good CPU contact was verified before and after all testing.

So lets start this

At stock speed

Vapochill LS load



Mach II GT load



At 4016 MHz

Vapochill light speed load



Mach II ST load



Mach II GT load



At 4355,2 MHz

Mach II GT load



At 4433,5 MHz

Mach II GT load single memory super PI



thnkz 2 JMKE



Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Vapochill LS was 4250 MHz.
Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Mach II GT was 4400 MHz.
Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Mach II ST was 4250 MHz

In the tests I was able to higher over clocks using only windows.

The units have all the same looks and the same way to cool the CPU. The Mach II ST and the Vapochill LS perform almost the same, the Mach II GT is one step higher in evolution.

What about the noise? Vapochills LS is at max a very loud machine compared to the both nVENTIV units. Personally I prefer the mounting system of the Mach’s but this I will show you in the second part of this test.

For the 3 systems I have tested I can still say, this is Overclocking heaven. Personally I owned a few vapochills and mach’s from the older series, but this next generations of both manufactures is good way to look into the future.

I am sorry but my digital camera is broken and I am waiting for the new one to arrive. At that point I will make a second review with pics of the insides and the way the mounting is be done. In this second review I will use a test bank with several settings for higher watts. This test bank has his own temperature readout so I can bypass the bios readout and get a much better en accurate readout.

Happy Overclocking

PetervanDamned






Click

[Naughtyboy]

Very nice m8...

As you said this is overclockers heaven....

However when it comes to the numbers...so far it seemes Mach II GT is the stronger one..and puts nventiv on top ones again.

A little surprised thou...that the GT is performing that much better than the LS unit....when it comes to raw cooling perfomance that is.

[asetek Inc.]

Nice test. You have chosen to show all units with aluminum kit. For the cause of accuracy you should maybe include this in your pricing information.

The LS has the aluminum kit as default and included in the price is also a bigger LCD, whereas the GT aluminum kit costs around 100€ on top of the basic price.


This is prices taken from a reseller carrying both products ( http://www.kit-tronics.com )

VapoChill LS: 876,75 $US (with alu kit and LCD)

MACH II GT: 1399,95 $US (with alu kit and LCD)

When comparing performance, the 523,2 $ difference is worth considering when comparing price / performance

[dpa]

my Mach II R404a modded unit still have enough power.. I see no reason to buy a LS..

[pkrew]

If you already have a mach II then probably not, but if you don't then the LS is cheaper and performs as well. If you add the cost of the aluminum kit the ST is more expensive than the LS and you don't get the LCD or usb.

[Marquzz]

Nice to see that ST is on pair with the new vappo...so much for that comeback

[gabbax]

yepp, but this was expected(from me)..so im not suprise at all...

[asetek Inc.]

We do look forward to the real tests, where you test the heat load and temperature. You are most likely aware, that your tests could indicate that a R134a unit is just as powerful as an R507 unit

[gabbax]

Well, this tests give us a hint what they will deliver, and i must say, im not impressed about the LS. Its not near the GT,whats your respond to that?

[xsky]

well done!

don't you have prescott to test really high heat loads? the reason many peoble bought the LS was asetek claiming "-25c @ 240W"
that's where the R507 Comp should do a good work.

[jmke]

nicely done petervandamned!!
if you like a quick graph overview, I excelled them here

[asetek Inc.]

Originally posted by gabbax
Well, this tests give us a hint what they will deliver, and i must say, im not impressed about the LS. Its not near the GT,whats your respond to that?

Well our respond to this is 523,2 $ lower price

a CPU-kit that supports all CPUs, and a compressor designed for / warranted by the compressor manufacturer for R404a / R507

We have chosen to optimize the LS for being able to remove around 250W instead of only 200W. If we chose to optimize for 200W, the temperatures would have been lower. Considering CPU roadmaps and overclocking, we trust this to be the best choice.

And finally we have seen other results than this, so lets await some more tests

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
We do look forward to the real tests, where you test the heat load and temperature. You are most likely aware, that your tests could indicate that a R134a unit is just as powerful as an R507 unit

Also be aware it is an 11cc compressor vs an 8.5cc compressor (and if I could be bold enough to say, the 11 is a LOT more quiet than the 8.5 with comparable performance)

And unless you think a small 507 compressor could beat a huge 134a compressor I dont think the refridgerant has anything to do with it, rather the total package.

Its also an interesting choice to sacrifice temperatures for heatloads which will never occur, I must say.

Sorry, couldnt help myself

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
Well our respond to this is 523,2 $ lower price

a CPU-kit that supports all CPUs, and a compressor designed for / warranted by the compressor manufacturer for R404a / R507

We have chosen to optimize the LS for being able to remove around 250W instead of only 200W. If we chose to optimize for 200W, the temperatures would have been lower. Considering CPU roadmaps and overclocking, we trust this to be the best choice.

And finally we have seen other results than this, so lets await some more tests

Fair deal really ,

From his results:

Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Vapochill LS was 4250 MHz.
Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Mach II GT was 4400 MHz.
Maximum Prime95 running speed on the Mach II ST was 4250 MHz

Is an extra 150 MHz stable on a P4 worth 523,2 $ ?

Also have to add, but is the LCD worth 299 $ ?

[eva2000]

interesting test... just where's the original mach 2 in the comparison ?

[The Stilt]

"Cooling performance load/idle 240W @ -25,5'C "

So is P4 4016MHz / 1.665V pushing over 230W of heat out?
Nope, something like 105W - 120W would be closer.
Vapo LS evaporator seems to be -28.5c under load. If Asetek´s claim about "240W @ -25.5C" would be true, with this load evaporator temps should be like over -50c and cpu temps should be like -32c...

So where is about a half of the promised cooling power of Vapo Lightspeed?

If I remember correct, Asetek called nVentiv a liar because of those false readings of Mach2 temperature sensor.

nVentiv´s way:
Calibrate temperature sensor to show better temperatures than they actually are.

Asetek´s way:
Promise about a half better temperature / cooling power than it actually is.

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by ricjax99
Fair deal really

Is an extra 150 MHz stable on a P4 worth 523,2 $ ?

Thanks

Might as well get a cheaper M2 ST then, gets 150 MHz less than the GT but its the cheapest unit of them all not to mention the quietest too.

[pkrew]

I'm a little lost here and not sure why people are crapping on the LS. This is just one test and even if accurate its on par with the ST. The ST is the same as a mach II without the lcd and usb from what I've read. Even without the aluminum kit the mach II is $200 more than the LS. With the AL kit almost $400 more. The GT with the AL kit is $600 more and almost double the cost. I'm very much a noob at this, but it seems to me from this test that if money is no object then get the GT, but bang for the buck the LS appears to be a very nice deal.

[ricjax99]

Originally posted by The Stilt
nVentiv´s way:
Calibrate temperature sensor to show better temperatures than they actually are.

Asetek´s way:
Promise about a half better temperature / cooling power than it actually is.

Now thats ****'ed UP!

Originally posted by JCviggen
Thanks

Might as well get a cheaper M2 ST then, gets 150 MHz less than the GT but its the cheapest unit of them all not to mention the quietest too.

Check my edit bro

[asetek Inc.]

Lets try to keep the thread sober and based on fact - shall we

According to several roadmaps and the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS), high performance ICs will dissipate 200W within the next three years (source BCC, Inc). Our users normally uses their cooling systems for quite some years, so we consider it the best choice.

Yes a compressor designed for R404a/R507 will be more noisy than a compressor designed for R134a. However when failure accurs to the valve system on the R134a, the R507 compressor will still hum along although a bit louder

According to own experiences while working as an engineer at Danfos in Flensburg Germany, where the NL11F is made, it will fail. Maybe not in the warranty period, but it will fail. Danfoss will void all warranty with the use of R404a on an NL11F. Instead of discussing this in a forum, just call Danfoss.

[eva2000]

i know 2 people with Vapochill LS and they seem to be happy with them one is using A64 system and one using P4 3.4C http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1803

i'll stick with my Mach2 though heh

[Formann]

I dont see why Asetek even botherd making the LS. Diddn´t they know that nVentiv were gonna charge their Mk2 with 404 ? Everybody knew that..

They should hade gone with a Techumse L´unite CAE 2420 Z or the 2424. Those compressors are cheaper then Danfoss, and they are much more powerfull.

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
Lets try to keep the thread sober and based on fact - shall we

Absolutely

According to several roadmaps and the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS), high performance ICs will dissipate 200W within the next three years (source BCC, Inc). Our users normally uses their cooling systems for quite some years, so we consider it the best choice.

Well, it is extremely unlikely if not impossible that mainstream desktop processors will ever disspate 200W, because such heat cannot possible be removed by conventional means. High performance ICs are a vague discription, too.

Yes a compressor designed for R404a/R507 will be more noisy than a compressor designed for R134a. However when failure accurs to the valve system on the R134a, the R507 compressor will still hum along although a bit louder

According to own experiences while working as an engineer at Danfos in Flensburg Germany, where the NL11F is made, it will fail. Maybe not in the warranty period, but it will fail. Danfoss will void all warranty with the use of R404a on an NL11F. Instead of discussing this in a forum, just call Danfoss.

Well, it was never an issue about wether Danfoss gives warranty on anything I think. And if these compressors are as fragile as you say, how come in 2 years not a single one has failed on R404A ? Will they all simultaniously blow up at day nr 784 ? I have had one on R404A almost since the Mach 1 came out...it still hums along nicely. Since not every compressor is exactly equal when it comes off the production line, the "weaker" ones should have been failing already.
Of course you will say that the BD35F R134A compressor was in fact safe to use with R404A...
But for me the bottom line is..........what is the point for the representative of a company to reply in forums stating that some component the competition uses "is sure to fail" after xx time ? Shouldnt you focus on your own products? Whoever makes something will know what they are doing, and to reply to every topic that comes along on a certain subject isnt exactly a hint of professionalism... even though I do not hold any high rank in a company I refrain from replying in topics where its 1 vs the other simply because it is not up to me to show where people are right or wrong...

However let me tell you I am posting all this in good fun, and because I am living pretty near where you are, I wouldnt mind to grab a beer with you when you have the time

Enjoy your week-end !

[petervandamned]

I was not expecting asetek to respond or nventiv. In my test i was not looking at prices at all. So sorry if i forget to put in the seperate kit.

@ Asetek would you like me to test above 200 watts?
@ nVENTIV same question

my older vapochills or mach's i can test this together but i have adjusted them with other gasses. So if anybody in the netherlands have those ready for this total test i will be glad to do this.

[charlie]

Originally posted by asetek Inc.
Lets try to keep the thread sober and based on fact - shall we

According to several roadmaps and the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS), high performance ICs will dissipate 200W within the next three years (source BCC, Inc). Our users normally uses their cooling systems for quite some years, so we consider it the best choice.

Yes a compressor designed for R404a/R507 will be more noisy than a compressor designed for R134a. However when failure accurs to the valve system on the R134a, the R507 compressor will still hum along although a bit louder

According to own experiences while working as an engineer at Danfos in Flensburg Germany, where the NL11F is made, it will fail. Maybe not in the warranty period, but it will fail. Danfoss will void all warranty with the use of R404a on an NL11F. Instead of discussing this in a forum, just call Danfoss.

I'm actually quite fond of the Vapo LS, but do have some ?? for Asetek. Knowing that Nventiv could SIMPLY recharge their EXISTING Mach 2 with 404a, why did Asetek base their LS on the performance of the older Mach 2? If I can make a suggestion to Asetek, please accept this:
1) Get the engineer back in the office, in front of the workstation.
2) Use a big MAC DADDY compressor filled with r507.
3) Keep everything else the same because the LS is much more refined than Nventiv product.
4) Price this NEW LS-XL the same as Nventiv GT...
5) Beat their temps... with today's hardware. 150mHz difference is HUGE! The enthusiast is just going to buy a "old" Mach 2 and charge with 507... or an ST for that matter! For Asetek to prosper they need a top-end model that is TRULY the best. Now don't take this the wrong way... I think Nventiv products look a bit rough, even garage-built. The LS is quite well put together, but doesn't offer the same "ooommpphhh". I believe the LS was an outstanding "first salvo" into this battle, but it's time to bring out the big guns, Asetek.

C