New Vapochill LS...Mach 2 clone

[Tomsawyer]

Free t-shirt with every 100 posts, o wait no thats spam and spam is bad!

Hmmm on a serious note Bowman is getting 2 toys to compare, I think I can smell a serious unbiased review a comming and that must have both asetek and chipcon sweating seeing how phase cooling is still a small market and word of mouth can seriously torpedo a bad product

Stress test them till they squeal bowman!

[bowman1964]

Well its not like i dont have a dozen nventiv units laying around...to play on..i just needed a brand new unit that would make sure i could test the latest unit.
i didnt want to be testing one of my modded units..

i needed a untouched completley stock unit to use as a accurate test.i have the latest unit and so it should give me the most accurate compairason between the too giants....

i am sure it will suprise a few...

[Phyrox]

Bowman the nventiv unit you have is the Mach 2 ST right? I don’t really see a point in comparing it to a LS. We already know what the results are going to be. R134a vs R507. The ST is just a mach2 with a different chip controller and a lower price.

[paul007]

Phyrox still you think you can take any two peices of HW and just becasue one looks better on paper it is in reality??

ok, so vapochill has r507 and a Baker18 type evap question still is can it match the performance with a load or in real world situations like the mach II??

The mach II's evap. is still great anyway you look at it and also the way it uses hard urethane foam to insulate it totaly except for the evap base is something else that is an edge over the vapochill design..

untill both are fully load tested on a "optimal load source" such as what Baker18 or Bowman use lets not call anyone a winner or looser.

a mach II stock with r134a has been shown to hold a 2.9ghz+ a64 at 1.9v stable do you have any idea the kind of heat that is? Or a P4EE over 4.3ghz?? the Vapochill needs to prove itself first before anyone can say "LOOK IT USES R507 IT MUST BE BETTER"

[bowman1964]

Originally posted by Phyrox
Bowman the nventiv unit you have is the Mach 2 ST right? I don’t really see a point in comparing it to a LS. We already know what the results are going to be. R134a vs R507. The ST is just a mach2 with a different chip controller and a lower price.

sorry no prise for that anser..it isnt the ST...but thats about all i can say...

[JBELL]

Originally posted by paul007
Phyrox still you think you can take any two peices of HW and just becasue one looks better on paper it is in reality??

ok, so vapochill has r507 and a Baker18 type evap question still is can it match the performance with a load or in real world situations like the mach II??

The mach II's evap. is still great anyway you look at it and also the way it uses hard urethane foam to insulate it totaly except for the evap base is something else that is an edge over the vapochill design..

untill both are fully load tested on a "optimal load source" such as what Baker18 or Bowman use lets not call anyone a winner or looser.

a mach II stock with r134a has been shown to hold a 2.9ghz+ a64 at 1.9v stable do you have any idea the kind of heat that is? Or a P4EE over 4.3ghz?? the Vapochill needs to prove itself first before anyone can say "LOOK IT USES R507 IT MUST BE BETTER"

great answer!

[Phyrox]

Originally posted by paul007
Phyrox still you think you can take any two peices of HW and just becasue one looks better on paper it is in reality??

ok, so vapochill has r507 and a Baker18 type evap question still is can it match the performance with a load or in real world situations like the mach II??

The mach II's evap. is still great anyway you look at it and also the way it uses hard urethane foam to insulate it totaly except for the evap base is something else that is an edge over the vapochill design..

untill both are fully load tested on a "optimal load source" such as what Baker18 or Bowman use lets not call anyone a winner or looser.

a mach II stock with r134a has been shown to hold a 2.9ghz+ a64 at 1.9v stable do you have any idea the kind of heat that is? Or a P4EE over 4.3ghz?? the Vapochill needs to prove itself first before anyone can say "LOOK IT USES R507 IT MUST BE BETTER"

yes I agree but aseteks evap is even better than nventivs. nventivs evap compared to the se/pe/xe evaps was better because it can hold and stabilize temps under load but with the improvement of aseteks evap it will do the same plus maintain better temps. my friends in denmark have already seen this unit while it was in its beta stages and it was quite good and now all revisions have been made. i know what i am talking about please do not mistake me for some newb who thinks it is colder just because of r507. thhat is obvious but there are many other factors that come to play including evap design, density of compressor, condensor size, ect. Also r404a/r507 gasses are effected by ambient temps unlike r134a so if your in CA/FL or somewhere else you might not get performance like someone is getting in NV/NY/CT ect.

also i disagree on one more thing. it DOES NOT take baker or bowman to prove this. there are many qualified individuals out there including you and me. no offence to anyone here but just because your "well known" does not exactly mean someone who is "nameless" cant make a do the same thing.

i have many opther examples of htis. someone was going for a cpu record and then some other member said well if OPP didnt get this how the he|| could you. now opp isnt god or anything (no offence to opp) but if he cant do something does not mean someone else cant. it all matters on your hardwares limits and the hw you use of course.

---

oh yeah bowman i know what you mean i know a little about the 2nd unit but i didnt know that was the unit nventiv was taking to cebit not much sense in taking the ST to cebit of course

[paul007]

Baker and Bowman are the only ones around here that have spoke out and joined forces to make and come up with a testing heat load that doesn't vary as so many that test there setups for temperatures and loads do..

I never called you new nor did I doubt your knowledge, but you are pushing this new vapochill way to much its "GOOD" yes on paper so far, but it is not all that IMO.. You say it has a stronger compressor also correct? You do know you can not for one second go by the compressors raided specifications as a "This is what the unit will do" statement at all as I have seem 1/2hp+ LBT r404 compressors get left by the what 1/5-1/6hp danfoss nf9fx r134a unit..

SO again no disrespect to you, but remember as of right now all this is just speculation and opinions correct?? As we have yet to have "Real World" and I don't mean THG review these units side by side and until we do Ill go with the proven favorite with the r134a gas..

Oh and of course a r404/r507 in a 40f area will have a big boost over it in a hot climate, but this is all about what the OEM will see and since r134a is the best warm temp gas it might be better when you match the environment to the unit.

r507 in that closed case in an 80-82f hot FL/CALI room umm

[JBELL]

Originally posted by Phyrox


also i disagree on one more thing. it DOES NOT take baker or bowman to prove this. there are many qualified individuals out there including you and me. no offence to anyone here but just because your "well known" does not exactly mean someone who is "nameless" cant make a do the same thing.

true but it DOES take someone you trust and know personally is knowledgable on the topic at hand. just syaing your qualified whether you are or not is not enough for me .. I need to see it.

[OPPAINTER]

The best way to test one machine against the other is by throwing a cpu under the evap. Simply see which rig overclocks the chip higher.

That simple.

OPP

[Evil_Spork]

but who has 2grand to toss around like that? =-\

maybe review them? head to head type thing? i'll give that one a go

[OPPAINTER]

Artificial heat loaders are great for preliminary testing while building a unit.
But when it comes down to best performance, the rigs really should be tested next to each other with the same exact PC hardware.
This is how I would test the buggers anyway.

OPP

[chilly1]

OP you know you just can't keep your hands off the hardware!!

[Tomsawyer]

You know you have been overclocking too long when your looking at your girlfriends chest and start mumbling about bigger heatsinks, overclocking, and replacment compressors

Sorry been a long day at work lol

[Phyrox]

LoL

Yeah JBEll I understand where you are comming from. Personally I like to get my own impression on hardware -- thats why I never really want to see a review from someone before I get it (unless everyone is having problems with it).

I just dont like when a guy like OPP is unable to achieve a certain goal and then all of the staff thinks if the big guns cant do it no one can. Thats all.

[TheDude]

I just dont like when a guy like OPP is unable to achieve a certain goal and then all of the staff thinks if the big guns cant do it no one can. Thats all.

Staff?

[Phyrox]

Originally posted by TheDude
Staff?

Oops didnt mean staff meant members

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by Phyrox


I just dont like when a guy like OPP is unable to achieve a certain goal and then all of the staff thinks if the big guns cant do it no one can. Thats all.

Who are these guys that think if I can't do it, it can't be done?

It's Not true,,,

but I would still like to shake their hand

OPP

[TheDude]

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Who are these guys that think if I can't do it, it can't be done?

It's Not true,,,

but I would still like to shake their hand

OPP

ERRR.....You mean besides you?

[bowman1964]

yea guys depending on how you look at this...it can be decieving..

OPP and me are friends and he knows i will stand behind him.as i will any of by friends.

but lets all look at this from a cooling point of view...

for one..we all know if a unit can remove more heat it has the potental to overclock farther..but DO NOT GO BY ONE UNIT CLOCKING FARTHER THAN ANOTHER......UNLESS...the excate same hardwear is used withing a certain time period.

this is how my testing will be done..

first units will be ran for a half a day to equilize out.

then each will loaded with differant heat loads that will not be guessing but excate....

but i will show how the actuall heat loads are done.and how you can show one better than the other .just as the marketing guys do it...but i will keep the 2 excate as far as the test i will run on each...

then i will put real loads on them..

but last...
i will have a intel p4c 3.0c unit ..running the same cpu/motherboard and all.

install in the vapo and run for a couple of hours...measure temps off the die....though the bios...

and them swap out and place into the nventv unit.

this way there will be no differant chip(whick all of us know most chips very in temperature)..so i will go the extra mile and use the same hardwear.

i know everone wants to see how far they overclock....

but i am not doing that..overclocking is based on the man doing it...and hardwear has alot but not all of it..
i am not going to let human error interfear in my testing..

i will OPP do the overclocking,,LOL.

but the unit that can hold up the best under certain loads will HAVE THE PROTENTAL TO OVERCLOCK FARTHER..not nessasrly will.

please remember..unless the test is run from the same bench within the same time frame..taking out errors in room temps and hardwear..you cannot compair APPLES TO APPLES...

AND I AM GOING TO MAKE DAMM SURE THERE WILL BE A LEVAL PLAYING FIELD...APPLES TO APPLES...

let the best machine cool

bowman


and i have brand new lian li cases for both units so they will look pretty..and if i have time i will show the improvments each unit has over its old model..i have a vapo xe and a mach II i may use to help out..

[Jeff]

Bowman!

[neyoung]

I'm not only stoked to see this review, but also to see the nventiv unit bowman keeps hinting about

[bowman1964]

well i was told there is a backorder on the 115v compressors from danfoss..i was also told i could have a 230v tommorow..

but i want it to be fair so i am waiting on a 115v model.

i was told a few 115v models that were released from backorder were shipped to the us..just depends on who got there orders in time i think.

mine will get here in time..april is when i plan on starting anyways...there is alot of work to be done.

i have a couple of copper heat blocks to mill out and adapters to make..so it isnt as easy as it sounds to give a fair and accurate review..this stuff is not sold anywhere..it all has to custom milled from a solid bar of copper..i have some but i want to make some more to show how the marketing tests are done..

i have 5 or 6 fluke meters to use in reading and a dozen differant thermpcoupling ranging from .003" size to the standard j and k type.it will be a test like no other...

[OPPAINTER]

Very good Bowman, sounds like one mean test my friend

This will Defiantly be a great read.

Don't forget to put the word "Potential" in bold

OPP

[isp]

Very nice Bowman, this going to be a forum-only read or an article (head to head review) published on XS's main page with your results? I suggest the latter.

Looking forward to your results as always. :thumbsup: