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Thread: DDR4 4800CL16 2x16 Gb achieved (Micron E die and Z690)

  1. #1
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    DDR4 4800CL16 2x16 Gb achieved (Micron E die and Z690)



    Might be a record for 2x16 DDR4 and the CL timing, my previous 4600CL15 might have been too, idk.

    It is stable for over an hour, but I've spent the last .... 50 hours??? Doing this???? With how many bios flashbacks my god :c

    What is wrong with me

    This is on the cheapest Asrock Z690 itx/ax with a 12600k, getting an MSI Z790 tomahawk soon to try push for 5000+ and a 13900k later ...

    But why do I do this??? :x

    Gear 1 my IMC only allows 3800CL13 and with 2xSR is only 59ns latency so meh. This is still 67ns latency so even more meh.

    Big clocks, nice CL, too high latency ram.

    'Just buy DDR5' everyone says. No.

    Turns out it still spits out errors now and then, sometimes stable for over an hour, then errors within 10mins.

    I dropped it back down ... up? to CL17.
    Last edited by Mungri; 10-19-2022 at 11:28 AM.

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    Some nice work. I use a 16Gb DDR4 kit at 4400CL14 (Gear 1) for my gaming rig. My "stability" criteria is to use Karhu Ram Test software for a six hour run. On a Z690 with a 12900, stability with the higher frequencies eludes me. what are your imc voltages and SA/IO voltages for your 4600/4800 successes?
    Last edited by uRnOdAiSy; 10-19-2022 at 08:23 AM. Reason: add info

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    Quote Originally Posted by uRnOdAiSy View Post
    Some nice work. I use a 16Gb DDR4 kit at 4400CL14 (Gear 1) for my gaming rig. My "stability" criteria is to use Karhu Ram Test software for a six hour run. On a Z690 with a 12900, stability with the higher frequencies eludes me. what are your imc voltages and SA/IO voltages for your 4600/4800 successes?
    1.7v dram and 1.3v SA for 4800CL16, 1.6 / 1.25 for 4800CL17.

    I dont bother with 4600 on Z690, its either highest on gear 1 or highest on gear 2, and my IMC is too low at gear 1 for this kit to get good latency.

    Forgot to mention its on a 12600k so not as good an IMC as 12900k.

    x600k and x700k have worse IMC than x900k, this build was only a stopgap to the 13900k anyway, and will replace my 10900k after (4k and 1440p builds). It will be running my e dies at 3733CL14 after the 13900k setup is done for the 4k build.

    I was reconsidering for the 13700k instead as I dont need 16 e cores, but I need the 13900k IMC. The leaked videos for 13900k show golden bins and only +100 Mhz overclock, so 13700k is going to be using all the crap silicon. Have to pay for a load of useless e cores just to get good IMC.
    Last edited by Mungri; 10-19-2022 at 08:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungri View Post
    1.7v dram and 1.3v SA for 4800CL16, 1.6 / 1.25 for 4800CL17.

    I dont bother with 4600 on Z690, its either highest on gear 1 or highest on gear 2, and my IMC is too low at gear 1 for this kit to get good latency.

    Forgot to mention its on a 12600k so not as good an IMC as 12900k.

    x600k and x700k have worse IMC than x900k, this build was only a stopgap to the 13900k anyway, and will replace my 10900k after (4k and 1440p builds). It will be running my e dies at 3733CL14 after the 13900k setup is done for the 4k build.

    I was reconsidering for the 13700k instead as I dont need 16 e cores, but I need the 13900k IMC. The leaked videos for 13900k show golden bins and only +100 Mhz overclock, so 13700k is going to be using all the crap silicon. Have to pay for a load of useless e cores just to get good IMC.
    That makes sense as to running the highest in a gear. It's a shame that 4800/CL16 (impressive btw) yields a latency of 67. I don't need any e-cores. I've disabled all the e-cores and clock the ring higher. I wonder what 4800/CL16 would run with a higher ring clock. My interest in a 13900k would be a more refined IMC that could run DDR4 at a higher frequency/lower latency. Please post your experiences when you land your 13900. I'm not sold on DDR5 and will wait a few years for the maturity, performance, and price improvements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uRnOdAiSy View Post
    That makes sense as to running the highest in a gear. It's a shame that 4800/CL16 (impressive btw) yields a latency of 67. I don't need any e-cores. I've disabled all the e-cores and clock the ring higher. I wonder what 4800/CL16 would run with a higher ring clock. My interest in a 13900k would be a more refined IMC that could run DDR4 at a higher frequency/lower latency. Please post your experiences when you land your 13900. I'm not sold on DDR5 and will wait a few years for the maturity, performance, and price improvements.
    If you check this video out, 4800CL21 DDR4 can provide over 20 FPS higher in some of the games than 4800CL38 DDR5:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-aqzc0_WSc&t=220s

    Its the same back when DDR4 came out, I was running elpida DDR3 for a very long time at 1866CL7, but because I was on an I7 980 I didn't upgrade until 5820k as everything was 4c/8t for so long.

    When DDR3 came out I bought EOL discount DDR2 1200. I didn't stay long on that though and it actually flipped for 50 more than what I paid.

    The 180 I paid for the current 4400CL19 kit? Its sold out in most places, EOL, and if you can find it over 350 again. Say I want to upgrade to DDR5 a lot sooner, I can flip that ram as well for a lot.

    I always do a final DDR gen upgrade like this, even if DDR5 is better than mine, the price isnt worth it for such tiny gains outside of latency benchmarks.

    When I bought Micron E die, it was 3200CL16 for 150. Samsing B die 3200CL14 was 320 and what everyone wanted. Same as now with DDR5 prices, I thought 'even if its better, no way its worth spending that much on ram', so I bought the ballistix hoping it would at least do 3600 CL16-18, and it went up to 4200CL16 with 1.52v!

    Its simply never worth spending loads on ram unless you are just trying to post the highest latency scores online, as thats the only improvement you will actually see or notice,

    I've been posting on OCN and agree with what some people there say, DDR5 will be worth it when you can get 8000CL30-32, and for now isnt worth it until at least the generation after raptor lake. For me yes, but when 8000CL32 is also <200 for 2x16.

    Early prices on new DDR is just early adopter tax, it does nothing compared to upgrading CPU or GPU outside of benchmarks.

    I would like to hold on to the 13900k as long as I did the 980 sure, but CPUs are advancing a lot faster now than back then, so I think skip at least 14th gen, and if I can still hold off 15th gen too and use the 13900k and current ram till then. Same as why I didn't stay on DDR2 was C2D > I7980 was a huge improvement.

    I upgrade for the CPU and GPU, not for the ram.

    13900k upgrade upgrade will be a month or two still, I preordered the motherboard and case and asked for them to be shipped together as I am on itx atm, so need the case to use the motherboard. They said they will reserve the one that comes first which was the mobo, in stock yesterday, oos today, so I sent a follow up email asking for confirmation one was reserved for me and if theres any eta on the case.

    13900k I will buy with a 420mm AIO after they add the software bundle and use the 12600k for now.
    Last edited by Mungri; 10-19-2022 at 11:10 AM.

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    Also 4500CL15 on the 10900k was 41.9ns latency, I forgot to test at 4600CL15.

    Gears ruined my latency, no idea what was different about the 10900k.

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    So I'm going to see what the same ram and CPU do on the MSI Z790 MAG tomahawk before deciding whether to buy 13700k or 13900k.

    If I can get 4800CL16 fully stable, or push 5000+CL18, I'll be happy to stay in G2 if I get a 13700k with weak IMC.

    If the ram is hardcapped at 4800CL17 for stability, I'll want the 13900K for better G1 IMC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uRnOdAiSy View Post
    Some nice work. I use a 16Gb DDR4 kit at 4400CL14 (Gear 1) for my gaming rig. My "stability" criteria is to use Karhu Ram Test software for a six hour run. On a Z690 with a 12900, stability with the higher frequencies eludes me. what are your imc voltages and SA/IO voltages for your 4600/4800 successes?

    4400 CL14 in G1 might be the strongest ive ever heard of - what mobo you on?
    Last edited by Revv23; 10-21-2022 at 10:26 AM. Reason: added quote

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    Somehow I was able to fix my latency issues after closing all the background apps once, and after that it works even when they are left open:



    Initially it was showing 67ns in aida, and 63ns in Intel MLC.

    Bandwidth varies from 73k to75.5k, not bad for a kit that was 180 when DDR5 cost over 400.

    10900k latency was 41.9 at 4500CL15 though, I didnt test 4600CL15. Its just sitting waiting to be sold now after I have the 13900k.

    My Z790 is reserved but still no ETA on the Thermaltake P3 Pro case bah.

    Hurry up so I can try for 5000+ CL18!
    Last edited by Mungri; 10-21-2022 at 01:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revv23 View Post
    4400 CL14 in G1 might be the strongest ive ever heard of - what mobo you on?
    I have the MSI Z690 MPG Edge WIFI.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by uRnOdAiSy; 10-21-2022 at 09:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revv23 View Post
    4400 CL14 in G1 might be the strongest ive ever heard of - what mobo you on?
    I tried to post screenshots of cpu-z with module and timing info but got an error.

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    Well I'm getting the motherboard on Monday now as another site had it on daily offer for 325, but can't use it until I get the Core P3 pro case which is still on pre order.

    Someone showed me a 3600 micron B die kit running at 5800 on an MSI board so I'm excited to see what it might do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungri View Post
    Well I'm getting the motherboard on Monday now as another site had it on daily offer for 325, but can't use it until I get the Core P3 pro case which is still on pre order.

    Someone showed me a 3600 micron B die kit running at 5800 on an MSI board so I'm excited to see what it might do.
    DDR4 @ 5800 sounds so incredible. Where can we see this? As I said before, I'm very interested in your DDR4 results for 24/7 use because (for reasons you stated) I won't be pursuing DDR5 for some time. For my purposes (gaming), keeping the latency as low under under 50 is important to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uRnOdAiSy View Post
    DDR4 @ 5800 sounds so incredible. Where can we see this? As I said before, I'm very interested in your DDR4 results for 24/7 use because (for reasons you stated) I won't be pursuing DDR5 for some time. For my purposes (gaming), keeping the latency as low under under 50 is important to me.
    It was on ocnet, but might not have been a 24/7 result.

    My 24/7 is 4800CL17. I cant push further until I get the new case.

    Nowhere on the internet is testing 4800+ G2 against G1 or DDR5 because no one outside of sites like this one and OCnet knows how to overclock ram. People on most sites think they're special for posting the same results I posted here 2 years ago and only comparing those to DDR5 now. Also there was even one channel running DDR4 4000 G2 stating 'lookit how much better DDR5 is', which is the misinformation that the average PC builder is being fed.

    OFC 12th / 13th gen gear 1 is super limiting, hence why I want to see proper G1 vs G2 results. You can buy end of gen DDR4 4800CL18 DR or 5333CL20 SR, but its a waste of money. Its people like you and me who already bought this ram when it was cheap that want to see if 4800+ G2 is actually the correct way to run this ram compared to G1, theres nowhere doing these tests.

    I'm going to try do a few game comparisons after I have the Z790 setup, but currently I'm capped with my low end Asrock board.

    If you think about ram speeds generationally, 4800-6000 DDR5 is like DDR4 2133-3000. Sure its a little better now, but its going to get a lot better on future gens. I don't think its ever worth buying early gen of a DDR standard at its initial prices while you can continue using end of previous gen.

    In 2 years 8000CL32 DDR5 will be budget ram, right now its just early adopter tax on current DDR5 kits. Its much more fun to buy cheap ram and then overclock it loads. When I initially did it, most places were complaining the voltage was too high and such, and now everyone is doing it.

    Also on OCnet, we criticized a recent techpower article still running 4000CL20 vs DDR5. In their comments section they stated 'Stop asking us to run 4000CL15, that stuff is so rare high binned that only 5% of people have'. Beyond clueless. 90% of end of gen Samsung B die and Micron E die DR sticks can do that and much more. Pre binned kits even sold with 4000CL14 XMP. The youtube channel that was running 4000 G2 replied to me 'we compare with what people would be running at home'. So where exactly do you think my PC is? On mars?
    Last edited by Mungri; 10-22-2022 at 07:59 AM.

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    Just pushed it further using BCLK overclock, 4900 G2 17-22-22-50-1T, 1.6v vdimm, 1.4v vddq, 1.4v SA:



    Comparing to DDR5 results, this is still lower latency than tuned 7200 Hynix M die, but unsure how it compares to 7600+ A die.

    Boosting SA from 1.25v to 1.35v stabilized the middle timings at 22-22. VDDQ helps just a tiny bit.

    Still nothing I can do to get 5000 stable on the Asrock board, still waiting for the case to use my new MSI Z790.
    Last edited by Mungri; 10-30-2022 at 05:25 PM.

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