Its possible to alter your VID scale and max mhz on Ryzen 3000 CPUs

[PiLsY]

Great to see people posting here, old and new faces. For the first time in years I have new hardware so I can contribute again

Here's a different method for all core overclocking in Gigabytes X570i F3 bios (and probably exactly the same for the other GB boards too) bios. Likely its available to all manufacturers, dig around in the bios and see what you can find. Its even in MSI's B450i bios but limited to VID adjust only, no max boost limit.

What this does is as follows:

1) Links all cores and disables downclocking at idle exactly as per an all core manual overclock
2) Allows cores to park in CC6 mode as if you were NOT running a manual overclock
3) Allows you to set a max VID limit for load voltage requests to the cpu (I think - guessing based on results), the cpu scales its VID request exactly as per AMDs stock cpu behaviour. AVX will result in a lower VID request than MMX/SSE. Voltage will rise up to your maximum set turbo VID as load lessens, and at 0% load the core will park.
4) Clock stretching will not occur. If its not stable, it crashes. As long as it doesn't crash, performance scales perfectly with every 25mhz added. Tested with CB R20.
5) Completely bypasses processor FIT limits and gives you full manual control of all clock domains and voltages at all temperatures and loads. 130w+ for 4.4ghz+ on tiny cores. You need cooling.

You could probably combine this with Shamino's ccx tool thats floating around. I haven't tried yet, when I do though i'll start at low mhz and volts. The ccx tool can do crazy stuff to offset voltages, I dont yet know if it will affect this method of changing voltage.

I don't know if AMD's method of scaling voltage with load is better. It's stock behaviour, so they clearly think it is. A manual multi manual volts OC will always run the same voltage plus load droop (user adjustable). We try to keep idle and load as close as possible generally, but AMD seem quite happy to run up to 1.5v at max boost under incredibly light loads. I don't like seeing it personally, but i do quite like my cores to park rather than just sit at full speed full volts all the time. This way has both of those aspects covered.

Important - set your cpu voltage to Normal. Make sure nothing in windows is setting any offsets (Ryzen master or board oc software) either. Turn off PBO (shown in bios screens below, why is it in two places ffs Gigabyte?).

Voltage limits: AMDRobert on reddit has stated 1.35v for intense loads and 1.425v for light loads is completely safe provided its cooled properly. I'm sticking to this for now, that seems high to me for 7nm. Choose your voltage based on your own feelings on this.

First here are the money shots...

All core oc with core parking enabled (CC6 mode - 0.200v core voltage indicates a parked core)


Cinebench running with scaled load VID request (VID request reduced from light load 1.425v to around 1.36v)


Realbench running with scaled load VID request (VID request reduced from light load 1.425v to around 1.37v)


Further examples of VID scaling - SuperPi only calls 1.39v, Maxxmem bench stays above 1.4v. Again, this is AMD default behaviour, the "is it actually better?" question is for you to decide



Bios Setup Shots:


Tweaker: Make sure your cpu vcore is set to "Normal"


Bios Settings: CBS menu and AMD overclocking menu are tucked away in here. Go to CBS first.


CBS section: Set cTDP and PPT limits manually, then go into the XFR section


XFR section: This is where you set your FCLK, UCLK ratio and VDDG voltage (this must also be set in the AMD overclocking section, confusing much?) for memory overclocking. Not relevant for this guide though, so select "Accepted" and move on...


XFR PBO section: Turn off PBO and disable the scalar. Now go back to the settings page and enter the "AMD Overclocking" section.


AMD Overclocking Section: We need to turn off PBO (again) first, so go to the Precision boost section.


Precision Boost section: Disable PBO again, then go back to the main AMD overclocking page and go to the Manual CPU Overclocking page.


Set your max cpu speed in mhz and your max low load VID in millivolts. My example below is for 1.425v light load and will drop to 1.35v for AVX512 (though I dont recommend hammering AVX tests at high clocks, it eats hardware)



In Intel speak this is MCE with a user defined max VID and no Speedstep, but with AMD's cc6 core parking enabled for idling sprinkled on top. I hope some of you find it useful, I'm just glad to be rid of clock stretching.

Cheers,
PiLsY (mostly retired)

[mongoled]

Dude, just saying hi!

Great work

:P

Thats what I love about this place, the real hard core always come back



Glad to see you still mingling!

Still waiting to see if MSI will make available to us X370 titanum owners all the overclocking features that are available to the X570 platform.

Until then, just reading up.

Really wanted to try this technique (well i did but it didnt work as exepcted, will revist it on a non-beta bios) as soon as I got my CPU (3600x) but the manual OC stuff is not working properly.

[PiLsY]

Hey man

My B450i on Click Lite bios only has a single option for this - you can set your vcore mode to "AMD Overclocking" on the oc page in bios and set a max VID limit. This behaves exactly as the gigabyte does above, however without the max turbo speed setting being available its only really useful for undervolting. Having said that it works really well with a 3600...I still get 4.2 all core boost but now I never see over 1.425v, cores park when not in use and temps are down around 8c. Noticeable probably because its running on the wraith RGB cooler not water. 3600 vid scale is a mess, mine massively overvolts at 4ghz and below, but then hits FIT limits due to being overvolted and cant boost over 4.1ghz.

Powerplay tables for ryzen would be amazing.

[mongoled]

Hey man

My B450i on Click Lite bios only has a single option for this - you can set your vcore mode to "AMD Overclocking" on the oc page in bios and set a max VID limit. This behaves exactly as the gigabyte does above, however without the max turbo speed setting being available its only really useful for undervolting. Having said that it works really well with a 3600...I still get 4.2 all core boost but now I never see over 1.425v, cores park when not in use and temps are down around 8c. Noticeable probably because its running on the wraith RGB cooler not water. 3600 vid scale is a mess, mine massively overvolts at 4ghz and below, but then hits FIT limits due to being overvolted and cant boost over 4.1ghz.

Powerplay tables for ryzen would be amazing.

But thats the feature I need (max turbo VID setting) !!!!



Thanks for that info, I saw that I also have the "AMD Overclocking" in my BIOS but im trying real hard not to brake anything, LOL

Here is where im at for now, PBO is on auto






Im going to wait for more mature BIOS before pushing some more.

And yup you are 100% right, these chips are crying for us to be given the tools to really push them!

Unleash the trojan

[Charles Wirth]

A name I have not seen in years, welcome back and thanks info.

[PiLsY]

Thanks boss! I'm a bit rusty though...I need to sort some image hosting out as well I haven't really forum'd since I last posted here.

MSI have released new bios versions for the older chipsets which apparently now expose the proper controls to do this. I'll update and test, but that's great if so as the 3600 gains most from this method of clocking and is the likeliest partner for an older gen board.

Also this bypasses the 20x multi low limit in Ryzen master and straight multi setting. You can go down to 5.5x for running with no heatsink. Roman will need to update his video I guess No idea what the top end is, I have no sub ambient anymore sadly.

[muzz]

Nice to see ya PiLsY!
I see you saw what I saw and said " Yeah, I'm doing it...and BTW I'm getting back on Xtreme" Woot!
I haven't built ANYTHING since the 1090, so much learning to do, but I'll do it!

[PiLsY]

Hey muzz, good to see another old boy back. And yup, Im still addicted...theres just been nothing really good or properly new since x58 for me. This is actual new stuff to learn about, the way the chips now handling idling is awesome. Everyone is so hooked on seeing mhz and voltage drop on demand they cant seem to understand that this is different, new and to my mind better. Once you can park and wake cores in 1ms, then why bother downclocking? Itll take more time - this method is basically "get the job done as quick as possible and go back to bed". Just like a contractor paid by the hour :P

Correction to my previous post - cPPT and cTDP reductions are needed to force the 5.5x multi. These only seem to work when using this clocking method. The 20x limitation seems to be windows level, but is overridden when power limited.

[PiLsY]

Annoyingly the new bios for the MSI B450i Gaming AC still does not have these controls exposed in bios. It does not have the AMD Overclocking section at all. This section has apparently been exposed on the X370 and X470 boards using this bios though. Unsure if any MSI B350 or B450 boards have it or even if MSI intend to make it user configurable at all.
Also this latest bios is bugged on my board. cTDP and cPPT are both limited to 65w max. Makes PBO useless and makes boosting at all under heavy load kinda hard tbh. Only plus point to this bios, they added the ability to save bios profiles (but only to a fat32 usb disk). I would avoid this release if using the B450i.

[PiLsY]

I played with the CCX tool last night and was surprised to find that its VID setting is modifying this value. This means that if you dont have these options in bios you can just grab the updated CCX tool and use that. Remember not to go over 1425mv VID and to keep your bios vcore on normal/auto if you want to stay in AMD safe limits.

Similar rules apply, if you want to get VID load scaling and core power saving features make sure your vcore is on normal/auto in bios. If you set your vcore to manual in bios and then use the tool all power saving and management features are disabled.

I did find though that you need a delta of 100mhz or more between cores to be faster in Cinebench R20 than running the cores all synchronised. 4425mhz on all cores is faster than 4425+4475 in 4+4 config. Ryzen 3000 really likes things in sync it seems. Obviously single core workloads will be faster as long as you are using W10 v1903 and the 7/7 or newer chipset drivers as scheduling behaviour will by default pass a single core workload to the fastest single core. Im pretty sure in games using 8 threads or less this would be faster.

[muzz]

Good stuff, I'll be back checking on this stuff when I upgrade the stock cooler to something that resembles adequate.

Thanks

[PiLsY]

Now briefly explained in Der8auer's latest video, thought he uses this method for underclocking

[muzz]

Awesome stuff PiLs, gonna work on this when the new cooler comes in(just ordered, stock cooler is trash).

Thx for the info bud.

G