Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: [News] Drunk on GeForce Partner Program Koolaid, MSI Openly Slanders AMD Radeon

  1. #1
    Join XS BOINC Team StyM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Tropics
    Posts
    16,492

    [News] Drunk on GeForce Partner Program Koolaid, MSI Openly Slanders AMD Radeon

    https://www.techpowerup.com/242697/d...ers-amd-radeon

    MSI was caught openly slandering AMD Radeon graphics processors in promoting its MSI Gaming Series notebooks featuring NVIDIA GeForce graphics chips. The company is a signatory of the draconian GeForce Partner Program (GPP) by NVIDIA which, in boilerplate regulator-baiting language, tells its add-in card (AIC) partners not to use the same gaming sub-brand (eg: ASUS ROG, MSI Gaming, GIGABYTE Aorus, etc.,) for GPUs from any other brand (i.e. AMD Radeon). When it's in effect, ASUS, for example, can't sell an ROG Strix-branded Radeon graphics card, MSI can't sell an RX Vega 64 Gaming X, and it's probably why GIGABYTE stripped the RX 580 Gaming Box of Aorus branding.

    In one of its regional Facebook pages, an official Facebook page customer response handle was seen openly stating "NVIDIA currently are ahead in the GPU experience," (keyword being "experience" and not performance), suggesting that its competition is sub-par. The handle was responding to a question as to why the notebook didn't come with AMD Radeon graphics options. Facebook users were quick to torch the MSI handle with a flame-war, and MSI corporate redacted the post stating "We apologize for making an inappropriate comment. It did not represent MSI's official views."

  2. #2
    I am Xtreme zanzabar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    SF bay area, CA
    Posts
    15,861
    He isnt wrong, Im an amd fan boy and only bought a 480 since the 1070 was out of stock and a sale made it $160 when my old card died.
    5930k, R5E, samsung 8GBx4 d-die, vega 56, wd gold 8TB, wd 4TB red, 2TB raid1 wd blue 5400
    samsung 840 evo 500GB, HP EX 1TB NVME , CM690II, swiftech h220, corsair 750hxi

  3. #3
    Xtreme X.I.P. Particle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,218
    Anyone who couldn't sell a Vega graphics card today with this mining nonsense going on couldn't sell a glass of water to a man dying of thirst in the desert.
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Rule 3:
    When it comes to computer news, 70% of Internet rumors are outright fabricated, 20% are inaccurate enough to simply be discarded, and about 10% are based in reality. Grains of salt--become familiar with them.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

    Random Tip o' the Whatever
    You just can't win. If your product offers feature A instead of B, people will moan how A is stupid and it didn't offer B. If your product offers B instead of A, they'll likewise complain and rant about how anyone's retarded cousin could figure out A is what the market wants.

  4. #4
    One-Eyed Killing Machine
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Inside a pot
    Posts
    6,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Particle View Post
    Anyone who couldn't sell a Vega graphics card today with this mining nonsense going on couldn't sell a glass of water to a man dying of thirst in the desert.
    Actually it isn't all that good and beautiful.

    With AMD you are limited to Ethash based coins, most of them are of low value, not so bright future and with a low profitability, while the most profitable coin for the Radeons, Ethereum, there are ASIC coming out that will dominate its mining unless Vitalik does something about it ( not so sure about it ).

    In the other hand, with nVIDIA you can mine more coins granted it's performing better than AMD in quite a few algorithms, and it's a better gaming card as well for those who game and just mine on the side.
    Plus, they get to keep their values in the used market better than AMD cards do.
    Coding 24/7... Limited forums/PMs time.

    -Justice isn't blind, Justice is ashamed.

    Many thanks to: Sue Wu, Yiwen Lin, Steven Kuo, Crystal Chen, Vivian Lien, Joe Chan, Sascha Krohn, Joe James, Dan Snyder, Amy Deng, Jack Peterson, Hank Peng, Mafalda Cogliani, Olivia Lee, Marta Piccoli, Mike Clements, Alex Ruedinger, Oliver Baltuch, Korinna Dieck, Steffen Eisentein, Francois Piednoel, Tanja Markovic, Cyril Pelupessy (R.I.P. ), Juan J. Guerrero

  5. #5
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    324
    Vega is really good for mining Monero, which will fork itself to protect from new ASIC-miners. Ethereum will go Proof-of-Stake soon and make Ethash mining obsolete anyway.

    But I doubt people will buy a notebook for mining.

  6. #6
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by BenchZowner View Post
    Actually it isn't all that good and beautiful.

    With AMD you are limited to Ethash based coins, most of them are of low value, not so bright future and with a low profitability, while the most profitable coin for the Radeons, Ethereum, there are ASIC coming out that will dominate its mining unless Vitalik does something about it ( not so sure about it ).

    In the other hand, with nVIDIA you can mine more coins granted it's performing better than AMD in quite a few algorithms, and it's a better gaming card as well for those who game and just mine on the side.
    Plus, they get to keep their values in the used market better than AMD cards do.
    Uhm,
    1) You are not limited to ethash on amd`s , you can mine pretty much anything, they are better at ethash than nvidia and vegas KILL at monero (1/3 better performance than titan V)
    As for the keeping the value, i sold 290x in 2017 for almost the same price i bought it in 2014 ...
    Also sold my vega for 2x the price i bought it, they not only keep better value, but lose less performance over time.
    Intel 5960X@4.2Ghz[Prime stable]@4.5 [XTU stable] 1.24v NB@3.6ghz Asrock X99 Extreme 3 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance@3200 16-17-17
    Sapphire nitro+ VEGA 56 Samsung SSD 850 256GB Crucial MX100 512GB HDD:WD10TB WD:8TB Seagate8TB

  7. #7
    One-Eyed Killing Machine
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Inside a pot
    Posts
    6,334
    Quote Originally Posted by vario View Post
    Uhm,
    1) You are not limited to ethash on amd`s , you can mine pretty much anything, they are better at ethash than nvidia and vegas KILL at monero (1/3 better performance than titan V)
    As for the keeping the value, i sold 290x in 2017 for almost the same price i bought it in 2014 ...
    Also sold my vega for 2x the price i bought it, they not only keep better value, but lose less performance over time.
    Limited as in the other options are not good ( barely any profits, higher power consumption, worse per $ profits compared to the competitive offerings from nVIDIA.

    Like you said, Monero is forking and changing algorithm, which might make... AMD's cards useless for Monero and limit them to just Ethash ( Ethereum )...

    Sold a few 1060 3GBs for an internet cafe owner who happens to be a good customer of mine... he bought them for 220 euros, sold them for 350 euros each...

    For GPU mining horsepower nVIDIA is the best at the very moment, and that's what the big miners are hoarding right now.

    On the upside, with nVIDIA and its decent performance in most algorithms, you can mine coins that are decent without needing to focus on the very big and popular ones that have an ever increasing difficulty compared to unknown yet very profitable coins.
    Coding 24/7... Limited forums/PMs time.

    -Justice isn't blind, Justice is ashamed.

    Many thanks to: Sue Wu, Yiwen Lin, Steven Kuo, Crystal Chen, Vivian Lien, Joe Chan, Sascha Krohn, Joe James, Dan Snyder, Amy Deng, Jack Peterson, Hank Peng, Mafalda Cogliani, Olivia Lee, Marta Piccoli, Mike Clements, Alex Ruedinger, Oliver Baltuch, Korinna Dieck, Steffen Eisentein, Francois Piednoel, Tanja Markovic, Cyril Pelupessy (R.I.P. ), Juan J. Guerrero

  8. #8
    Xtreme X.I.P. Particle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,218
    Quote Originally Posted by BenchZowner View Post
    Limited as in the other options are not good ( barely any profits, higher power consumption, worse per $ profits compared to the competitive offerings from nVIDIA.

    Like you said, Monero is forking and changing algorithm, which might make... AMD's cards useless for Monero and limit them to just Ethash ( Ethereum )...

    Sold a few 1060 3GBs for an internet cafe owner who happens to be a good customer of mine... he bought them for 220 euros, sold them for 350 euros each...

    For GPU mining horsepower nVIDIA is the best at the very moment, and that's what the big miners are hoarding right now.

    On the upside, with nVIDIA and its decent performance in most algorithms, you can mine coins that are decent without needing to focus on the very big and popular ones that have an ever increasing difficulty compared to unknown yet very profitable coins.
    I can't say I understand your point. It would seem to essentially boil down to "Yeah, but maybe in the future it won't be as useful as it is today if everything changes in a way that isn't favorable to that architecture!" It's a "you don't say" observation. You could say that about anything and it would be every bit as valid while also being every bit as pointless.

    The only point that matters is that you could sell any number of Vega cards today that you could make if you were selling them at MSRP. Mining has driven prices to where they're still at 50+ percent over MSRP. That would indicate that demand still strongly outstrips supply. None of your other points matter since this thread of conversation started as a challenge to my assertion that Vega cards would be trivially easy to sell.
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Rule 3:
    When it comes to computer news, 70% of Internet rumors are outright fabricated, 20% are inaccurate enough to simply be discarded, and about 10% are based in reality. Grains of salt--become familiar with them.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

    Random Tip o' the Whatever
    You just can't win. If your product offers feature A instead of B, people will moan how A is stupid and it didn't offer B. If your product offers B instead of A, they'll likewise complain and rant about how anyone's retarded cousin could figure out A is what the market wants.

  9. #9
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,759
    This has already been rectified by MSI that it was the opinion of one employee and not the opinion of the company right?

    But can't argue with it to be honest! AMD had it in the bag for many years, only to launch one fiasco after the other. I'll leave it up to others where to point the blame. It's an abysmal state. No competition.

    Intel Core i7-3770K
    ASUS P8Z77-I DELUXE
    EVGA GTX 970 SC
    Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) Vengeance LP 1600
    Corsair H80
    120GB Samsung 840 EVO, 500GB WD Scorpio Blue, 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3
    Corsair RM650
    Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced
    OC: 5Ghz | +0.185 offset : 1.352v

  10. #10
    I am Xtreme zanzabar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    SF bay area, CA
    Posts
    15,861
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    This has already been rectified by MSI that it was the opinion of one employee and not the opinion of the company right?

    But can't argue with it to be honest! AMD had it in the bag for many years, only to launch one fiasco after the other. I'll leave it up to others where to point the blame. It's an abysmal state. No competition.
    What do you mean many years, until this current gen amd has had the best card in every category they had a card with gddr in.
    5930k, R5E, samsung 8GBx4 d-die, vega 56, wd gold 8TB, wd 4TB red, 2TB raid1 wd blue 5400
    samsung 840 evo 500GB, HP EX 1TB NVME , CM690II, swiftech h220, corsair 750hxi

  11. #11
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    This has already been rectified by MSI that it was the opinion of one employee and not the opinion of the company right?

    But can't argue with it to be honest! AMD had it in the bag for many years, only to launch one fiasco after the other. I'll leave it up to others where to point the blame. It's an abysmal state. No competition.
    If we step back and actually think about it, AMD always had a competition beside the fastest single chip cards, and yes they were more power hungry, however you always have had something for it, be it good mining performance (290x still rocks in this regard!, even tahiti) or freesync or some other amd quirk like vulkan or even mods like 6950 to 6970, however this exxagarated notion persists, its like a urban legend, "AMD Cards just SUCK balls man!" , ive had mostly AMD cards and really havent got any problems with them, and there was always something to tinker with (which i like!), of course they have had their weaknesses but its not like nvidia has had only non problematic winners and their aproach of everything proprietary is also not good for consumers.
    Lets look at 290x, at launch many were saying its an end for amd! That these cards are useless!
    But here we are 4 years later, these cards still mine, still compute, and are very good at gaming while reference models cooling sucked, that was pretty much it.
    I just dont get it, i mean yea, amd doesnt have 1080ti counterpart, mostly, but in some games its actually competetive even with it, and it does better at compute.Look at the sapphire nitro+ model, its quiet ! And if you tinker with it a bit, you get faster card that is less power hungry (just uv and oc the hbm2) .
    Intel 5960X@4.2Ghz[Prime stable]@4.5 [XTU stable] 1.24v NB@3.6ghz Asrock X99 Extreme 3 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance@3200 16-17-17
    Sapphire nitro+ VEGA 56 Samsung SSD 850 256GB Crucial MX100 512GB HDD:WD10TB WD:8TB Seagate8TB

  12. #12
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,043
    Heh, I'm still running a 7950 and OCed to 1000 core it still does what I want it to do. R6 Vegas at 1440p is fine for the most part, yeah frames could be higher sometimes but overall still quite usable.

    I've had both nvidia and ATI/AMD cards. Both have had their high and low points. Generally have had little issue with either of them. But, I tend to prefer running a Radeon. Why? Just because.
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

  13. #13
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    579
    The tools at TPU have trash talked AMD steady for years. Only reason they posted that was to get page hits.
    q9550 @ 444 x 8.5 1.3v - Venomous X
    p5q DLX
    Ocz RPR 1066 4 x 2g @ 1066
    eah5870 V2 @ 920/1250 - HR-03gt
    Antec Fusion Remote MAX
    Xonar HDAV1.3
    Ocz zx850w


  14. #14
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,402
    I used to like MSI brand, I liked their motherboard and graphic card ...
    until I read this public statement ...

    I hope they read this :
    Monopoly in computing is getting more and more the electronics of desktop boring. No matter who's is wining at a time, There is no point to buy anything more. With monopoly R&D developpement decrease. Innovation too !!!
    People that buy desktop have already older desktop for the most. Why buy new stuff without any innovation. If now selling marketing bull what you sell MSI, I am not gonna buy again any.

    Sadly justice is too slow or let prople do what they want with monopoly or price cartels.

    I know competition can be hard. But this is same game that everybody plays. You will save your ass for a few years, but you'll gonna kill the buisness on what you're living on.
    Best way to live in competition, is invest in R&D, and let creative & innovative people work.

    Why graphic cards are just ing same board of the reference board from nvidia/AMD ? 99% of time with a new heatsink if you're lucky.

    Don't cry after this ... it's your fault.

  15. #15
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    US, MI
    Posts
    1,680
    I don't care tbh, msi is still good in my book.
    The issue I have with them is that they put out cards, along with a bunch of other companies that have coil wine (1080ti's).
    I NEVER want that to happen again, spent 800+ on a card that squeal's like mad depending on what it's running.
    I rma'ed it, the 2nd card isn't as bad, but still, they outright refused to talk to me after the 2nd rma (looking at you newegg ).
    I wanted my $ back, I didn't want the card after that.
    And... I'm stuck with it, I'de be tempted to sell it for a profit, but I'de be screwed again with a 2gb card, the 680 lightning.
    Which is a gaming nogo on 4k, even with 1080p sometimes (I managed to get it up to par but still).
    In linux, ff running, it uses up most of the ram, had to disable triple buffer to get a bit more free.

    On normal usage the crappy pos 1080ti is ok, gaming, wear headphones if you don't want tinnitus...^^
    I think this is f!@#'ing bs imo.
    You just gotta live with it, thanks to the no refund policy.
    Last edited by NEOAethyr; 04-02-2018 at 02:32 AM.

  16. #16
    One-Eyed Killing Machine
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Inside a pot
    Posts
    6,334
    Your coil whine might go away totally with another PSU ( not that it's worth it to try 2-3 PSUs until you find one that it stops squealing with ).

    Real stupid problems are like the one Gigabyte has been having with the Aorus 1080 Ti with the fan scratching the metallic shroud ( frame )... talk about epic fail.
    Coding 24/7... Limited forums/PMs time.

    -Justice isn't blind, Justice is ashamed.

    Many thanks to: Sue Wu, Yiwen Lin, Steven Kuo, Crystal Chen, Vivian Lien, Joe Chan, Sascha Krohn, Joe James, Dan Snyder, Amy Deng, Jack Peterson, Hank Peng, Mafalda Cogliani, Olivia Lee, Marta Piccoli, Mike Clements, Alex Ruedinger, Oliver Baltuch, Korinna Dieck, Steffen Eisentein, Francois Piednoel, Tanja Markovic, Cyril Pelupessy (R.I.P. ), Juan J. Guerrero

  17. #17
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    US, MI
    Posts
    1,680
    I was thinking that too, even though I have a delta baised psu.
    The 12v rail is high, 12.5 or 12.6 last time I checked.
    Came that way .

    When I can afford a spare, I'll do that.
    That will probably be a few more years, waiting for tigerlake or better.
    Also got to build a newer pc for my brother, likely a year before that.

    It's not to bad half the time though.
    I plan on adding some noise/sound reduction to my case in some form or another as well.
    Which should help absorb some of it.

    Some times it's slightly noticeable.
    Which does tick me off, not used to that on premium hardware.
    Headphones helps but still.
    Makes a buzzing ticking noise, maybe with a slight squeal. (with certain loads, it's not even gpu % baised, it's kinda odd)
    The 1st card was 2-3x worse though like i think I said before.
    Last edited by NEOAethyr; 04-29-2018 at 09:26 AM.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •