[News] Google software engineer calls for end to diversity

[StyM]

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/44238-g...d-to-diversity

A senior software engineer at Google has opened a can of worms by calling for the company to abandon it diversity initiatives in favour of ?ideological diversity?.

In a document titled ?Google?s Ideological Echo Chamber? the 10 page rant argues that the gender gaps at Google are the result of biological differences between men and women, and that the company shouldn?t offer programs that help under-represented groups.

The author also alleged that politically conservative employees are discriminated against, and that achieving ?ideological equality? should be a priority. He feels that conservative political feelings should be a protected class because they are not looked after by anti-discrimination laws like race, religion, age, sex, citizenship, familial status, or one?s disability, or veteran status are.

Numerous Google employees voiced their outrage over the existence of the document, and indicated that the author?s management chain and HR have been made aware of it.

?I value diversity and inclusion, am not denying that sexism exists, and don?t endorse using stereotypes.? The author goes on to speak to perceived biases within Google, and how that is detrimental to the company.

Basically after starting out by saying ?I am not a misogynist or racist? the writer then goes into a rant about how inferior women are and then says white men are vulnerable. The writer thought that women were unsuited for tech because they like people, whilst men like things.

However what is more alarming, is that while the document is angering women and minorities working at Google there is a small vocal section of the company, let's call them white backward males who think that women should be at home and in the kitchen rather than programming who agree.

This has put Google?s new VP of Diversity, Danielle Brown, on the spot. She has sent a memo to Google employees, saying that she ?found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender,? and that it?s not a ?viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages?.

She went on to write that a diverse workplace is a central part of the company?s culture.

Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we'll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul, she wrote.

[drmrlordx]

Surprised nobody around here has anything to say about it.

Diversity initiatives a witchhunt against white conservative males? Noooooo, say it ain't so!

[AliG]

Surprised nobody around here has anything to say about it.

Diversity initiatives a witchhunt against white conservative males? Noooooo, say it ain't so!

I think that any reasonable person would agree that memo was wrong. Even if that's the type of thinking you support, what kind of idiot sends a discriminatory email throughout the company? That would be the equivalent of writing an email to the product development listserv explaining students from University Y should never be hired for stupid reasons A,B,C.

You just don't do that type of stuff.

[alpha0ne]

Sacked for making a personal statement, George must be turning in his grave

[vario]

Any kind of systemic discrimination, and yes, that could also be against white man, because it CAN be against anybody, produces people who feel that they are being discriminated and it builds up in them over time, sometimes they accept it in some weird self loathing way, sometimes they rationally oppose it while knowing it isnt really "all of them other ones" fault, and other people radicalize and become racist/sexist etc.And i have to say, world and especially US is in a weird state, where sometimes it seems, only white males are capable of doing wrong.Its just not true, everybody can be and often are a shi*tty people .Complex answers, are hard. So people on both sides oversimplify things and then go to "war" with these simple concepts in mind, along the way they radicalize, and you have a fanatic know.People who dont listen and dont analyze, they just "know".
This guy, and people who voted in trump are not all the same, but a large portion of people had just enough of constant bashing for no real reason.Nobody alive today should be blamed for slavery, they had nothing to do with it. Cultural appropriation is some invented problem, all cultures everywhere and everytime took from another, There is little to none systemic sexism i mean besides the one that favor woman and i could talk all day.Of course, in the us at least its pretty evident that there is bias in police work against black and hispanic people, there are simple ways to overcome that, but it seems no one wants to really do them, and most importantly, police in the US militarizes, they behave like soldiers and a not caretakers of the people and land , "to protect and serve" is a dead motto.But its just bad police force, bad training, bad law.Its not because they are all racist sexist misogynistic idiots.
If any race/gender is treated better than the other in a SYSTEMIC way, people will find it unjust and the hate will build up.

[StyM]

Google employee behind 'echo chamber' diversity memo fired

[AliG]

Sacked for making a personal statement, George must be turning in his grave

Why? Freedom of speech means you can't be held accountable by the government. It does not, and never was meant to, prevent employers from enacting their own policies. That's capitalism #Merica.

It's not different than not being allowed to wear heavy goth in the office (well, most companies anyways). Just because freedom of expression protects you from the police doesn't mean you can't be sent home by your boss.

[Particle]

I think that any reasonable person would agree that memo was wrong. Even if that's the type of thinking you support, what kind of idiot sends a discriminatory email throughout the company? That would be the equivalent of writing an email to the product development listserv explaining students from University Y should never be hired for stupid reasons A,B,C.

You just don't do that type of stuff.

Research scientists actually in the fields in question would seem to disagree with your assessment. What you've written would also seem to suggest you may not have actually read the contents of the memo. The tone and content weren't discriminatory. Don't let journalists and commentators do the thinking for you.

[xlink]

"People who make conservative statements are discriminated against... I'm going to outline my general thoughts and back it up with research"

several days later

"you're fired"

[iddqd]

If anyone actually bothered to read what he says, it makes sense - broadly, anyway. Unfortunately, (as the author of the memo himself rightly points out) these opinions are extremely against the 'correct' opinions you're allowed to have in their messed up cult-like corporate culture.
I actually would not even consider working at Google, albeit for slightly different reasons... but it's not a good place to work either way. Unless you're a workaholic and don't mind spending your entire life at work, which I'm not really all about.

Allow me to rephrase his central argument in terms that are... more palatable:

There are fewer female graduates in CS, CE and EE than their male counterparts. This is a fact that you can't really argue about... then he goes on to theorize why this is the case. I don't care, and you shouldn't either. I also don't care that only like 5% of nursing students are male. Apparently men don't want to be nurses or something..?
Anyway, by this virtue alone, there are going to be more talented male engineers than female ones. There's just way more of them in general! It's a no-brainer, really. So if you try to discriminate in order to artificially create a 50/50 gender ratio, you're going to run out of talented female engineers really quickly. And then be forced to hire a bunch of mediocre ones because there aren't any talented ones left. This is obviously not the most efficient way of doing things. But on the other hand, Google has so much money that maybe they don't really care if they're wasting some of it.

[StAndrew]

He has a good argument but doesn't do well in presenting it. Either way, the issue is not weather he is wrong or right or even if he is acting socially appropriate. The issue is that he is exposing the realities of silicon valley. I'm sure Google and other tech companies understand and agree with him, deep inside, but they take must take an exaggerated and politically correct stance on "equal opportunity" as to appear relevant with social trends. Its all smoke and mirrors; the danger is this illusion can be shattered if logic is applied.

"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, 'You are mad; you are not like us.' " - St Anthony the Great

[AliG]

If anyone actually bothered to read what he says, it makes sense - broadly, anyway. Unfortunately, (as the author of the memo himself rightly points out) these opinions are extremely against the 'correct' opinions you're allowed to have in their messed up cult-like corporate culture.
I actually would not even consider working at Google, albeit for slightly different reasons... but it's not a good place to work either way. Unless you're a workaholic and don't mind spending your entire life at work, which I'm not really all about.

Allow me to rephrase his central argument in terms that are... more palatable:

Here's the problem, Google has very clear policies on behavior that makes employees uncomfortable due to their race, religion, gender, etc. If your behavior infringes upon those rules, HR can rightfully fire you. Intent doesn't matter. Anyone who's stupid enough to send that type of documentation across the company frankly does deserve to lose their job - half of being an engineer is how well you work with others.

He has a good argument but doesn't do well in presenting it. Either way, the issue is not weather he is wrong or right or even if he is acting socially appropriate. The issue is that he is exposing the realities of silicon valley. I'm sure Google and other tech companies understand and agree with him, deep inside, but they take must take an exaggerated and politically correct stance on "equal opportunity" as to appear relevant with social trends. Its all smoke and mirrors; the danger is this illusion can be shattered if logic is applied.

"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, 'You are mad; you are not like us.' " - St Anthony the Great

Presentation is everything in the work place. If your bosses think you even have a slight possibility of rocking the boat and causing culture problems, they'll find a reason to have you silenced.

[drmrlordx]

I think that any reasonable person would agree that memo was wrong. Even if that's the type of thinking you support, what kind of idiot sends a discriminatory email throughout the company? That would be the equivalent of writing an email to the product development listserv explaining students from University Y should never be hired for stupid reasons A,B,C.

You just don't do that type of stuff.

It's obvious the guy was willing to get fired in order to stoke controversy. He probably knew what he was doing.

At the same time, you have to wonder how many times the guy has watched semi-competent employees muddle along in the name of diversity. There are plenty of half-arsed white dudes out there that would get sacked in a heartbeat. Who needs those guys? Nobody! Seriously, nobody. At least not a top-of-the-line corporation like Alphabet.

But wipe out a diversity hire? Nahhhh. Gotta get them quotas up. Intel is apparently the same way these days.

[AliG]

It's obvious the guy was willing to get fired in order to stoke controversy. He probably knew what he was doing.

At the same time, you have to wonder how many times the guy has watched semi-competent employees muddle along in the name of diversity. There are plenty of half-arsed white dudes out there that would get sacked in a heartbeat. Who needs those guys? Nobody! Seriously, nobody. At least not a top-of-the-line corporation like Alphabet.

But wipe out a diversity hire? Nahhhh. Gotta get them quotas up. Intel is apparently the same way these days.

I'll give you that I've questioned whether someone was a diversity hire before. But I'm smart enough to at least take a second to re-evaluate the situation before using the company's listserv to put that person on notice.

I also throw out that I don't think white guys get sacked for incompetence any more readily - at least not in the EE industry. Maybe CS is different, but I've seen tons of incompetent people just get "reassigned" to roles that are harder to screw up.

[drmrlordx]

I also throw out that I don't think white guys get sacked for incompetence any more readily - at least not in the EE industry. Maybe CS is different, but I've seen tons of incompetent people just get "reassigned" to roles that are harder to screw up.

The problem with firing anyone is that most employees are also an investment. It's expensive to hire anyone in the US at least, and I expect that it's the same in the Eurozone as well as countries like Japan and S. Korea. But at the same time, at least in the US, dudebro white guys who act like they're a part of the meritocracy need to practice what they preach. If they can't hack it, they need to get out, moreso than anyone else (in my opinion). What is their excuse for being second-rate?

I wonder where James Demore fell on the competence scale at Alphabet. And was he on someone's blacklist?

[iddqd]

Here's the problem, Google has very clear policies on behavior that makes employees uncomfortable due to their race, religion, gender, etc. If your behavior infringes upon those rules, HR can rightfully fire you. Intent doesn't matter. Anyone who's stupid enough to send that type of documentation across the company frankly does deserve to lose their job - half of being an engineer is how well you work with others.

Oh, it ain't about that. Actually, they're free to fire you for any (or no) reason whatsoever. It's not like these workers have unions or a state that protects their livelihood. This guy refused to drink the corporate kool aid, and worse yet - he wouldn't shut up about it. You can't tolerate this sort of behavior if you want to run a successful cult! Dissenters must be removed, or at least silenced.

[NEOAethyr]

Research scientists actually in the fields in question would seem to disagree with your assessment. What you've written would also seem to suggest you may not have actually read the contents of the memo. The tone and content weren't discriminatory. Don't let journalists and commentators do the thinking for you.

Exactly, watch out for the main stream narrative...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN1vEfqHGro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSihA_OWexQ

[El Mano]

I think he was right.
Nobody ever gave me nothing for free just because I'm a white male.
Today they are bombing us with this "diversity" thing and they want us to hire blacks not because of what they know but because of being black. Same with women, muslims etc.

I absolutely disagree with this. You should hire the best guy for the job, neverminding his race or sex.
And if the best person for the job is white, then so be it.

When the next Olympics come, your country is not going to make a diverse athletics team by picking half blacks and half whites if these whites are slower than other possible runners, is it?
Then why should companies do it?
If the whole basket team is black nobody cares. But if a movie's cast does not feature at least a black guy then it's not diverse enough.
You can claim to be proud of being black and/or gay but it's offensive to say you're proud of being white and heterosexual.

Democracy is also about letting other people voice their ideas even when you disagree.

He has been fired because of his social and political ideas. It should not be allowed.

[AliG]

I think he was right.
Nobody ever gave me nothing for free just because I'm a white male.
Today they are bombing us with this "diversity" thing and they want us to hire blacks not because of what they know but because of being black. Same with women, muslims etc.

I absolutely disagree with this. You should hire the best guy for the job, neverminding his race or sex.
And if the best person for the job is white, then so be it.

When the next Olympics come, your country is not going to make a diverse athletics team by picking half blacks and half whites if these whites are slower than other possible runners, is it?
Then why should companies do it?
If the whole basket team is black nobody cares. But if a movie's cast does not feature at least a black guy then it's not diverse enough.
You can claim to be proud of being black and/or gay but it's offensive to say you're proud of being white and heterosexual.

Democracy is also about letting other people voice their ideas even when you disagree.

He has been fired because of his social and political ideas. It should not be allowed.

You realize you're just empowering everyone who believes that white males are privileged when you write in this style, right?

See discussion above, the guy was fired for causing problems in the office. If you're stupid enough to send something politically charged to the company listserv, you frankly deserve to lose your job.

[StAndrew]

I think he was right.
Nobody ever gave me nothing for free just because I'm a white male.
Today they are bombing us with this "diversity" thing and they want us to hire blacks not because of what they know but because of being black. Same with women, muslims etc.

I absolutely disagree with this. You should hire the best guy for the job, neverminding his race or sex.
And if the best person for the job is white, then so be it.

When the next Olympics come, your country is not going to make a diverse athletics team by picking half blacks and half whites if these whites are slower than other possible runners, is it?
Then why should companies do it?
If the whole basket team is black nobody cares. But if a movie's cast does not feature at least a black guy then it's not diverse enough.
You can claim to be proud of being black and/or gay but it's offensive to say you're proud of being white and heterosexual.

Democracy is also about letting other people voice their ideas even when you disagree.

He has been fired because of his social and political ideas. It should not be allowed.

Write with tact and let the convictions of your ideals speak for themselves. Use divisive language and you just give the other side of the argument validation for ignoring and undermining your core message.

[EternityZX9]

I agree a lot of what AliG has said.

To me this person:

A. Has no social intelligence and/or B. Was looking to get fired

I mean, in "Corporate America" what did this person really think would be the end result releasing this email? He only mentions the current phobia induced working environment multiple times in the memo?!

Furthermore I'm not exactly sure how you "quantify" his line of thinking and arguments into solid facts. And at the very least he should have had way more tact with how to address this issue in a corporate environment.

[AliG]

I

Furthermore I'm not exactly sure how you "quantify" his line of thinking and arguments into solid facts. And at the very least he should have had way more tact with how to address this issue in a corporate environment.

I think that's the crux of the matter. Your employer dictates a set of expectations with regards to how you conduct yourself in the office; breaking those rules in a manner that attracts national attention is just asking for trouble.

[StyM]

Assange wants fired Google employee to work for him

[AliG]

Yeah if he goes to work for wikileaks his career in the US is ruined lol.

Then again, I'm fairly certain he's too hot to touch for any job he'd want anyways. Almost all tech companies will probably blacklist him for a few years. Can you imagine being the manager that introduces him to your team?

[StyM]

Google cancels all-hands meeting due to safety concerns