[News] Microsoft Lifts "Spying" Components in Windows 10 for Chinese Government Versi

[StyM]

https://www.techpowerup.com/231799/m...rnment-version

Reports have started coming in that Microsoft has finalized its special, "non-spying" edition of Windows 10 for the Chinese government. In a joint-venture with China's own CTEC (China Electronics Technology Group), the Redmond-based company has apparently managed to deliver what they themselves thought impossible: a version of their operating system that doesn't spy on its users.

China's government previously banned Windows 8 and its derivatives, citing security concerns, and later launched an anti-monopoly probe against Microsoft. This meant that Microsoft was largely left out of China's huge state-backed enterprises in China - and one can imagine how lucrative a market this one is. Microsoft surely wouldn't be willing to allow such a chance of revenue to just jostle over to the Linux field, following the Chinese government's attempts to craft a custom OS (Kylin, which failed) and recent efforts with new NeoKylin initiative. Microsoft isn't willing to relent so as to what and how were features cut from their Windows 10 version that leads it to continue normal functions even without the heavily baked-in, essential, flaunted telemetry features. What is true, though, is that the company did say telemetry and data collection was so deeply embedded on their operating system that removing them would break it at a fundamental level which is, apparently, only the case if you don't have the money (or potential revenue) to pony up for a custom edition.

[vario]

What a time to live in.
In capitalist societies you get trojan horse from the goverment/corporation.
In communist china you get nom spying version.
Thats irony for you.

[MattiasNYC]

What a time to live in.
In capitalist societies you get trojan horse from the goverment/corporation.
In communist china you get nom spying version.
Thats irony for you.

Is it? Some spammer copy/pasts a millionth assertion based on "reports", i.e. zero confirmed sources, and you leap to the above?

No wonder the US election turned out the way it did.

Words have no meaning.

Truth is dead.

Hurrah.

[NEOAethyr]

@ vario, Totally agree.
@ MattiasNYC, I think it's pretty darned obvious something is messed up here.
You just need to open your eyes, so you can read the truth for yourself...

MS is treating westerners like crap.
And why?, because all that b!tching we did about spyware meant nothing because people think it's the latest and greatest.
And in reality, it's not necessary, unless you count dx12, which is ms's way of keeping you onboard.
And in that sense, I'm glad vulkan is getting more press and I hope all future games go that route...
Because gaming is really what windows has the most of, there's a few other types of apps, but it's mostly about gaming.

If the market shifts to a diff os, the support will come with it -> more mature software.
Linux can be done, there can be competition.
This is coming from someone that used to hate linux btw, with it's mess, it's gotten a bit better and I've been "digging my way out", I can see light at the end .

This kind of marketing that ms is doing is exactly why I won't continue to use there newer stuff, it's crazy and it looks and runs like crap.
I'm being as honest as I can there on that one.

It's no wonder macos has gotten more popular ^^.

[vario]

Is it? Some spammer copy/pasts a millionth assertion based on "reports", i.e. zero confirmed sources, and you leap to the above?

No wonder the US election turned out the way it did.

Words have no meaning.

Truth is dead.

Hurrah.

Uhm, im not sure what are you talking about.
StyM ,the golden guy , that links to us news, rarely links to pure speculation.
Add to that, techpowerup is rather reputable site.
Add to that, there are a ton of reports from different sources about this.
Here, have a bit more detailed read
https://thenextweb.com/microsoft/201...#.tnw_mNX0WT7c

"Ralph Haupter, Microsoft?s CEO for the Greater China region has revealed that the company?s made a Chinese government-approved version of Windows 10."

Well of course everybody can lie. but there are levels dude. Its not "alternative facts" conway facts ;-) .

"Partnering with a state-run technology and defense company, CETC, Microsoft created its specialized version of Windows, officially called Zhuangongban, to comply with governmental standards."

Here , have a different source.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/microso...ent-1490097182

Wall street journal good enough for ya ?

[MattiasNYC]

I'm not sure what your arguments are at this point. It seems to me that the concern of the Chinese government is very well founded. Any OS lies at the very bottom of a computer and if you're going to deploy something like Win10 or OSX in government agencies in a place like China you're going to have security concerns. That's only natural. Whether or not this affects users is completely unknown to us because there's no statement by MS on exactly what changed.

But reading the headline here it makes it seem like there either was "'spying' components" targeting the Chinese (or other) governments by the US government using Windows 10 and that those are now removed, or that there were "'spying' components" targeting the user which are now removed for Chinese users but not others. That's the only way to read it.

Yet no details on the changes.

[vario]

I'm not sure what your arguments are at this point. It seems to me that the concern of the Chinese government is very well founded. Any OS lies at the very bottom of a computer and if you're going to deploy something like Win10 or OSX in government agencies in a place like China you're going to have security concerns. That's only natural. Whether or not this affects users is completely unknown to us because there's no statement by MS on exactly what changed.

But reading the headline here it makes it seem like there either was "'spying' components" targeting the Chinese (or other) governments by the US government using Windows 10 and that those are now removed, or that there were "'spying' components" targeting the user which are now removed for Chinese users but not others. That's the only way to read it.

Yet no details on the changes.

Ah, i understand.
Well, it is widely known that ms has spying components targeting users. Thats a fact.
And as for goverment cooperation, i guess in case of windows 10 there wasnt any leak confirming that.
Although going back with other leaks that occurred around ms (and other big it corporations) its pretty safe to assume so.
I guess chinese goverment was confident of it also. So they demanded their own version , and got what they wanted.
Only logical conclusion is the removal of the spying components. Of course MS could publicly say what it changed and what not. But as they do not , best guess its that it wouldnt make them look good. So they wont.Assuming just because ms denies what exactly happened, that nothing happened is pretty naive.
I would like to point out that the title used quotation marks around the spying word as to not seem like its definitely IT. Although everybody thinks so.
Also i would like to clarify, if someone/something gathers information about what im doing without my knowledge and explicit permit, i consider this spying.
A good example is gmail, google reads your email and analyzes it, if in the 90`s it would become public that every letter is scanned and analyzed by the postal service, people would go nuts.But it seems times change.

[MattiasNYC]

Ah, i understand.
Well, it is widely known that ms has spying components targeting users. Thats a fact.

It most certainly is not a fact. Unless of course we decide to define "spying" in some weird contemporary way.

And as for goverment cooperation, i guess in case of windows 10 there wasnt any leak confirming that.
Although going back with other leaks that occurred around ms (and other big it corporations) its pretty safe to assume so.
I guess chinese goverment was confident of it also. So they demanded their own version , and got what they wanted.
Only logical conclusion is the removal of the spying components. Of course MS could publicly say what it changed and what not. But as they do not , best guess its that it wouldnt make them look good. So they wont.

Ah, but there are alternatives other than purely removing components of the OS. There is also adding or changing components. These processes that are (as far as we actually know) mislabeled "spying" are telemetry transmissions that go up to MS' servers. I could see instances where MS would modify the destination of said transmissions and keep those domestic to China. If that was the case then the information could be sent to a Chinese entity which in cooperation with MS could provide the services telemetry normally provides without the data leaving China. It'd be de facto protection of the Chinese government, but without the need to actually eradicate telemetry and thereby cripple Windows 10.

Assuming just because ms denies what exactly happened, that nothing happened is pretty naive.

Who is saying that MS is denying what?

I would like to point out that the title used quotation marks around the spying word as to not seem like its definitely IT. Although everybody thinks so.

"everybody thinks so" means little. In some parts of the world 'everybody' thinks the planet is around 6-10,000 years old, and in other parts 'everybody' thinks a prophet flew to the heavens on a winged horse.

Also i would like to clarify, if someone/something gathers information about what im doing without my knowledge and explicit permit, i consider this spying.
A good example is gmail, google reads your email and analyzes it, if in the 90`s it would become public that every letter is scanned and analyzed by the postal service, people would go nuts.But it seems times change.

In the case of Gmail as well as Windows 10 you do actually sign an agreement with the provider of the service, and that agreement tells you that these corporations will send telemetry data to their servers. To me the important points to keep in mind are:

- As far as I know no personal data has been taken from a customer and then sold/used by a third party via MS in violation of the terms of service and where the customer then suffered from it.

- As far as I know the telemetry gathered is anonymized, so while you could possibly snoop on the transmission you'd only get the IP and encrypted data but no personal information to tie it to.

- The very point of getting Windows 10 over some other OS includes services that rely heavily on that telemetry. You can't personalize search results without a search history, and you can't use Cortana without her accessing MS servers. So for those who want that user experiences this is just the way it'll have to be. Like, have to be.

- Microsoft is actually one corporation that has wisely complied with domestic legislation when it needed to, but fought the US government when it was clear that the latter was overreaching. It not only went to court to protect the privacy of customers' data on servers abroad, but at least temporarily won in the courts. That to me is encouraging...

- as opposed to Yahoo, which was my email provider for quite some time until the second 1 Billion account breach was reported and I started getting messages saying how my account had been compromised; the point being that there's a lot more to this than just whining about big bad Microsoft.

- Who am I protecting myself against really?;
--- Is resisting Microsoft something I should do because I don't trust MS itself? I don't think so, since they try to protect my data against the government when data is stored abroad.
--- Is it resisting MS because it will take my data and hand over private information to a third party without my consent? I don't think so, because I've seen absolutely zero evidence of that happening so far.
--- Is it resisting MS because they'd sell my anonymized data to make money? Well, at that point I have to ask myself if there's evidence that is happening (haven't seen it) and to which degree it actually hurts me that MS is making money off of data I generate. After all, it's a corporation in a capitalist system so it needs to make a profit.
--- Is it resisting MS to protect myself from the US government? Well, good luck to me then. Only way at that point is to disconnect almost completely and take huge steps to anonymize communications. On the other hand, why would I? I actually don't have anything to hide and I'm completely uninteresting.

[drmrlordx]

What a time to live in.
In capitalist societies you get trojan horse from the goverment/corporation.
In communist china you get nom spying version.
Thats irony for you.

Do remember that the ChiComs will simply add their own spyware to replace the stuff that comes bundled in "normal" Win10.

[vario]

Do remember that the ChiComs will simply add their own spyware to replace the stuff that comes bundled in "normal" Win10.

Well yes probably, but as with all cheap chinese knockoffs it will be less efficient, more bug ridden, and will contain led

[drmrlordx]

Well yes probably, but as with all cheap chinese knockoffs it will be less efficient, more bug ridden, and will contain led

Or diethylene glycol, or formaldehyde, or melamine, or . . .