[News] Intel and Trump Announce $7B for Fab 42 Targeting 7nm

[StyM]

https://www.enterprisetech.com/2017/...targeting-7nm/

In what may be an attempt by President Trump to reset his turbulent relationship with the high tech industry, he and Intel CEO Brian Krzanich today announced plans to invest more than $7 billion to complete Fab 42, which when completed will be the most advanced semiconductor factory in the world according to Intel. The new fab is targeting use of a 7 nanometer (nm) manufacturing process.

A report in the Wall Street Journal today noted, ?It wasn?t immediately clear what role the Trump administration might be playing in facilitating the plant?s opening. Mr. Trump and his aides talk often about reducing the cost of doing business in the U.S. by easing regulatory and other burdens. The official said Wednesday Intel officials are expected to emphasize the administration?s tax and regulatory overhaul agenda.?

There?s been much discussion around 10nm and 7nm process technology and Intel?s plans to use them. Other major semiconductor manufacturers have forged ahead and in the summer of 2015 IBM announced ?the world?s first 7nm node test chips with functioning transistors, accomplished via a partnership with GLOBALFOUNDRIES and Samsung at SUNY Polytechnic Institute?s Colleges of Nanoscale Science and Engineering (SUNY Poly CNSE).? It noted production 7nm chips are at least two years away, but that IBM has delivered on its promise to develop the process node.? (See HPCwire article, IBM First to 7nm Process with Working Transistors)

?Intel is a global manufacturing and technology company, yet we think of ourselves as a leading American innovation enterprise,? said Krzanich in the release announcing the deal. ?America has a unique combination of talent, a vibrant business environment and access to global markets, which has enabled U.S. companies like Intel to foster economic growth and innovation. Our factories support jobs ? high-wage, high-tech manufacturing jobs that are the economic engines of the states where they are located.?

Krazanich discussed the investment in an email to Intel employees.

Intel is largest U.S. high-technology capital expenditure investor ($5.1 billion in the U.S. 2015) and its third largest investor in global R&D ($12.1 billion in 20151). The majority of Intel?s manufacturing and R&D is in the United States. As a result, Intel employs more than 50,000 people in the United States, while directly supporting almost half a million other U.S. jobs across a range of industries, including semiconductor tooling, software, logistics, channels, OEMs and other manufacturers that incorporate our products into theirs.

Intel says completion of Fab 42 in three to four years will directly create approximately 3,000 high-tech, high-wage Intel jobs for process engineers, equipment technicians, and facilities-support engineers and technicians who will work at the site. Combined with the indirect impact on businesses that will help support the factory?s operations, Fab 42 is expected to create more than 10,000 total long-term jobs in Arizona.

[dengyong]

It's good to have a real American president working for the people again. I think he's the best and most patriotic president I've seen in my 51 years.

[vario]

Something i dont get, what has trump to do with it ?
Intel was planning 7nm no matter who wins the election.
They surely have the money to build.
So, whats the connection ?

[dengyong]

Something i dont get, what has Trump to do with it ?
Intel was planning 7nm no matter who wins the election.
They surely have the money to build.
So, whats the connection ?

He's talking to the heads of large companies, asking them to manufacture their products in the US. He's reaching out to them rather than driving them away as our former administration did. President Trump is a nationalist and that's a good thing.

[vario]

He's talking to the heads of large companies, asking them to manufacture their products in the US. He's reaching out to them rather than driving them away as our former administration did. President Trump is a nationalist and that's a good thing.

I mean besides the fact that you seem to be extremely political on the subject, Intel was gonna build the fab anyway.
Glofo has build fishkill 14nm under obama.
To me it seems that trump just got on the bandwagon to get some points and thats all.
Unless goverment added some cash incentives, and if thats the case its double funny, because thats the kinda thing socialist european union does , and intel isnt really tight on cash.

[dengyong]

I mean besides the fact that you seem to be extremely political on the subject, Intel was gonna build the fab anyway.
Glofo has build fishkill 14nm under obama.
To me it seems that trump just got on the bandwagon to get some points and thats all.
Unless goverment added some cash incentives, and if thats the case its double funny, because thats the kinda thing socialist european union does , and intel isnt really tight on cash.

This article has a political part, there no way around it. Tax rates and regulation will be far less under the Trump administration. Those two issues drove manufacturing out of the US so our new president will use them to bring it back... as the left cries.

[ZenEffect]

as the left cries.

and this is where you turn a news debate into a quasi-political debate

good job, you have only continued to show how ignorant and disrespectful you actually are. give yourself a pat on the back

[vario]

and this is where you turn a news debate into a quasi-political debate

good job, you have only continued to show how ignorant and disrespectful you actually are. give yourself a pat on the back

Dude, with that nick, AMD should just send you one, you are obviously a prophet :-D

[ZenEffect]

Dude, with that nick, AMD should just send you one, you are obviously a prophet :-D

I get enough perks.

[dengyong]

and this is where you turn a news debate into a quasi-political debate

good job, you have only continued to show how ignorant and disrespectful you actually are. give yourself a pat on the back

You \ boys always try to throw jabs and then cry like babies when you get it back. All you're doing is trying to stir to get a thread that you don't like deleted. Shows what a cowardly loser you are.

[AliG]

I get enough perks.

Does that imply testing & research occurs at AMD?

[ZenEffect]

Does that imply testing & research occurs at AMD?

no, I work for a major video game publisher.

[ZenEffect]

You \ boys always try to throw jabs and then cry like babies when you get it back. All you're doing is trying to stir to get a thread that you don't like deleted. Shows what a cowardly loser you are.

Thank you for reiterating my point with your persistent ignorance. The more you post, the more you show how small minded you actually are. Keep it up, you are doing great!

[NEOAethyr]

Thank you for reiterating my point with your persistent ignorance. The more you post, the more you show how small minded you actually are. Keep it up, you are doing great!

Now now dude ^^, there's no point in this, dengyong is just happy to see some things attempted to be made here.
And besides, even if it did have a trade off, it will be balanced out somewhere, sometimes it may cost more to do the right thing.

It does the country no good at all if there's no real low level tech hardware jobs, we can pretend all we want we're all intellectual at help desk or whatever, but if that's as far as it goes, why even bother having a university?
I know we already have some jobs (what's left..., a half or quarter of what used to be..), obviously, but it hasn't been enough.

Making next gen chips here, awesome .
They didn't have to go that far but it's cool.
I would of went for cases, psu's, and ram/rom chips, and maybe a few more pcb maker plants/companies.

And whether or not the plant was already being built here, I don't know the answer on this one.
But does it really matter?, why gripe when it's all good ..?

And really, like I said, even if there was a trade off, 7nm intel's aren't a bad investment.

One thing I would keep an eye on, this is off topic.
Is the fact that amd has that 1700 around $300 right?, they did that deal with china recently..., if china is making the chips expect prices for those to go up from taxes in eu exit countries.
Just saying, in march it may be $325, in a few more months it could be $400~.
Could happen.
They will try to reduce dependency of china goods somehow, and trump has talked about hiking the taxes up on this very topic in the past.

I'm not against trade, and having respect for our neighbors.
But mass immigration is genocide, unless there's no choice like say japan sinks lol (you get the idea).
Refugee does not = immagrant.
It means you can help them, in a camp, and then most of them go home.
The eu thinks they can keep pushing for this displacement of it's own people, they're the ones that started this crap with the cia, they keep meddling in other people's affairs and screw things up.
Overthrowing iraq, gadafi, and working on assad next..., got the mafti freaking out..., then they have the b@lls to call putin a baby killer when he's the one cleaning up there mess, and probably taking advantaged of it no less (omg Allepo lol (no soap for the arabs...), what about Damascus?, did you not see it coming duh... ? )
The us is protected in a bubble from the real goings of international things, to much corruption and deceit, the democrats have no clue what is going on in my opinion.
It's not a free for all, I don't goto france, germany or england and demand they pay for my room and board, car and food + cash.
Then march there streets and.... ^^

Mmm
Back to china anyways, we just have to reduce reliance on them so much, we were taking to much advantage of it and destroying there env.
We need some of those tech jobs too, china can't be the only place to get a tech job.
We just gotta keep them off japan's back, though I'm not sure the us can in this respect, germany perhaps could but there's no leader there as far as I know, they banned so many parties it's so random now.
I don't think in the end they will have much respect for people in the us, if it came down to it.
Germany on the other hand is the only potential mediator I think in this situation.
Russia is right on top of this as well, this is a pretty important time for japan, they're getting there lands back.
However the islands that china still holds from japan is the issue, and I can understand japan's side of it, and I get china's side, it's just china gets aggressive about it.
Which is understandable, but it needs to be limited, and of course the us was supposed to defend japan, but we've been slacking since I assume clinton's days ^^.
I don't know, but japan want's it's own nukes, it's slowly working on it's own navy, which was never supposed to happen, only because we screwed up like millennial libtards.
And people wonder were the words from the president of the Philippines came from...

I think there's nothing to be neg of quite yet lol, even though it is ww3, been it's been like that before the election ended.
We saved america from hillary's war with russia, all good in my book lol.
And besides, if that happened, we would of been shot in the back in the eu if it would of came down to it, there's no way they would of trusted us.
Now we have to set an example, maybe help out greece with there camps, etc (you can't let people rot, the un/eu camps for refugee's, then there's the other camps but that's another topic, and the ones in...).

edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHlD39nPneQ

If the democrats still in office don't make themselves useful, they'll end up with the eu, in the past.
Sorry for all the offtopic, but the issue is more complicated then calling someone cheeto or comparing them with a gargoyle from 700 years ago.
I don't know..., it's like no one watched documentaries on rome or anything lol. , seriously though, some of these lessens are from back then and it's all like wtf... (like not ignoring your military, or who fights for you, and having some sort of sanity limit on the boarders, history repeats and it seems while people like to throw that phrase out there, there seems to be few that have learned anything from it)

[dasa]

lol he really has turned the usa into the dsa
d=divided

[Buckeye]

Ok guys, lets tone it down a bit ok

[Greg83]

with how high intels been priced, its nice to see they'll be using that money to produce the facilities in the usa instead of isreal this time. isn't that the 2 places intel builds foundaries?

oh and isn't the 7nm the end game for silicon transistors? isn't it all graphine or other noble gas's from then on?

end game for silicon transistors, foundries in america isn't so bad, trump might even manage to get the xbox scorpion SOI based on zen made in jersey like xbox ones were. and get them to update those global foundries for zen too. plus all those ibm foundries now global foundries with 7nm quickly approaching i wouldn't be amazed if america produces its own silicon for its own transistors while euro-asia produces its own too, to reduce on fuel costs.

now if only trump can get the silicon mining in the usa too, and manufacturing to group together into manufacturing cities where you don't live there unless you work in those plants like shisheng , then we'll really be competitive. in america's.

can't wait for the south american market to be untapped. maybe with the new wall going up and regulations strictly enforced , the economy of mexico will improve from additional jobs, the loss of organized crime in the area's should increase their lives plenty without that trade controlling them and extend the highways paved instead of dirt roads right into columbia and beyond.

[vario]

with how high intels been priced, its nice to see they'll be using that money to produce the facilities in the usa instead of isreal this time. isn't that the 2 places intel builds foundaries?

oh and isn't the 7nm the end game for silicon transistors? isn't it all graphine or other noble gas's from then on?

end game for silicon transistors, foundries in america isn't so bad, trump might even manage to get the xbox scorpion SOI based on zen made in jersey like xbox ones were. and get them to update those global foundries for zen too. plus all those ibm foundries now global foundries with 7nm quickly approaching i wouldn't be amazed if america produces its own silicon for its own transistors while euro-asia produces its own too, to reduce on fuel costs.

now if only trump can get the silicon mining in the usa too, and manufacturing to group together into manufacturing cities where you don't live there unless you work in those plants like shisheng , then we'll really be competitive. in america's.

can't wait for the south american market to be untapped. maybe with the new wall going up and regulations strictly enforced , the economy of mexico will improve from additional jobs, the loss of organized crime in the area's should increase their lives plenty without that trade controlling them and extend the highways paved instead of dirt roads right into columbia and beyond.

Well, intel had the choice of building its high priority top of the line new fab in middle east, where costs arent exactly that much lower and there is significant turmoil atm, and in the us.Yes a hard choice that needed mr orange direct involvment in the negotiations ;-) .
Crediting trump for this is like crediting obama for NY glofo 14nm fab.Hes been in office like a month , he doesnt know about the subject and his people are in disarray/chaos time.Yes for sure it was all trump .
As for scorpio, as AMD`s new fab of the choice is glofo in NY, its pretty sure it will be made there, although i dont know anything about SOI or that the cores are going to be ZEN instead of jaguar ones, any source on that ?
Anyhoo, as we dont have any details yet, the most probable thing i see is that intel got some taxbreaks in exchange for putting trumps name on that, hes good with this sort of thing.

[AliG]

Well, intel had the choice of building its high priority top of the line new fab in middle east, where costs arent exactly that much lower and there is significant turmoil atm, and in the us.Yes a hard choice that needed mr orange direct involvment in the negotiations ;-) .
Crediting trump for this is like crediting obama for NY glofo 14nm fab.Hes been in office like a month , he doesnt know about the subject and his people are in disarray/chaos time.Yes for sure it was all trump .
As for scorpio, as AMD`s new fab of the choice is glofo in NY, its pretty sure it will be made there, although i dont know anything about SOI or that the cores are going to be ZEN instead of jaguar ones, any source on that ?
Anyhoo, as we dont have any details yet, the most probable thing i see is that intel got some taxbreaks in exchange for putting trumps name on that, hes good with this sort of thing.

I'm just waiting for those upper-middle class tax breaks to be honest. As a young person breaking 6 figures, I have voted towards paying my fair share towards infrastructure and health care. BUT, if conservative states don't want my money, I'm perfectly fine with just investing it.

It's just one of those ironic double-edged sword things. The states that have fought tooth and nail against increasing federal subsidiaries are typically those who benefit the most from federal aid. You're already seeing NY respond by working towards providing free public college for their own residents (though as a moderate I think it's foolhearty to not require people to major in something where there is a clear need, i.e. how Germany does education). It's just unfortunate that places that seriously need educational support tend to actively fight against the necessary federal taxes.

Just to pick an example from my own experience, Kentucky is a truly beautiful state. I loved travelling around there when I supported the truck plant, and frankly Louisville has some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. The problem is their public k-12 system is horrible. Almost everyone I know that was middle class sent their kids to private school, leaving those without money to deal with underserved classrooms. The irony was that the people who had the money for private school typically voted for a staggered tax to pay for school (which wouldn't actually require the poor to pay anything), but those without quality jobs voted against it. You can point to whatever reason you want (most likely propaganda from wealthy), but the sad fact you see people actively fight against resources that benefit them far more than those who pay for it.

[AbortRetryFail?]

Intel and Trump Announce $7B for Fab 42 Targeting 7nm

Me thinks "Fab-42" is an inside joke at Intel. It's secret Chipzilla internal code for "-Can This Project" __ This is closely related to how reform the "Tax and Regulatory Environment" is secret code language for "Loot the US Treasury"


Isn't Intel employment yuuuggge in AZ, anyway? They have absorbed 1K+ jobs in the region from other failed Fab(ulous)-42 projects.

Intel does not have a capacity problem; they have a utilization problem. A modern 7nm foundry running at 80% will be great, but will only further exacerbate the problem. Pushing beyond 2020 helps but may be more dependent on their version of EUV, and the shuttering/consolidation of other facilities.

My Understanding: In 2017 TSMC will enter risk production at 7nm using a 'stepped-immersion' lithography process (don't really know what that means) with Samsung soon to follow with a 'limited' EUV (nobody seems to know what that really means).

GloFo has their 7nm fingers in both immersion and Samsung EUV lithography ...

[qcmadness]

Me thinks "Fab-42" is an inside joke at Intel. It's secret Chipzilla internal code for "-Can This Project" __ This is closely related to how reform the "Tax and Regulatory Environment" is secret code language for "Loot the US Treasury"


Isn't Intel employment yuuuggge in AZ, anyway? They have absorbed 1K+ jobs in the region from other failed Fab(ulous)-42 projects.

Intel does not have a capacity problem; they have a utilization problem. A modern 7nm foundry running at 80% will be great, but will only further exacerbate the problem. Pushing beyond 2020 helps but may be more dependent on their version of EUV, and the shuttering/consolidation of other facilities.

My Understanding: In 2017 TSMC will enter risk production at 7nm using a 'stepped-immersion' lithography process (don't really know what that means) with Samsung soon to follow with a 'limited' EUV (nobody seems to know what that really means).

GloFo has their 7nm fingers in both immersion and Samsung EUV lithography ...

When Intel announced Fab 42 project for 7nm, I would expect Intel to close another fab.
I can't find the fab utilization data from Intel, but I would expect 75-80% utilization.

[NEOAethyr]

Me thinks "Fab-42" is an inside joke at Intel. It's secret Chipzilla internal code for "-Can This Project" __ This is closely related to how reform the "Tax and Regulatory Environment" is secret code language for "Loot the US Treasury"


Isn't Intel employment yuuuggge in AZ, anyway? They have absorbed 1K+ jobs in the region from other failed Fab(ulous)-42 projects.

Intel does not have a capacity problem; they have a utilization problem. A modern 7nm foundry running at 80% will be great, but will only further exacerbate the problem. Pushing beyond 2020 helps but may be more dependent on their version of EUV, and the shuttering/consolidation of other facilities.

My Understanding: In 2017 TSMC will enter risk production at 7nm using a 'stepped-immersion' lithography process (don't really know what that means) with Samsung soon to follow with a 'limited' EUV (nobody seems to know what that really means).

GloFo has their 7nm fingers in both immersion and Samsung EUV lithography ...

EUV would means something todo with UV litho.
Either extended or enhanced, just guesses.
Looking it up it means Extreme UV Litho.

Lithography is a method of printing and layering things, the resolution in the nm scales.
It's also a 3d printing method, though that's a bit diff then making chips.

Lithography are how our chips are made, EUV is a type of it, likely at thee edge of the tech.
Greg83 mentioned 7nm may be the end of silicone, it may be, and I remember reading that the end is coming sooner or later, I don't know if it was 7nm or not though.

After UV, there's only x ray and then gamma.
Not sure if that sorta thing will even be attempted.
We'll likely move on to nano carbon or something before we try messing around with drawing circuits using x rays.

[drmrlordx]

with how high intels been priced, its nice to see they'll be using that money to produce the facilities in the usa instead of isreal this time. isn't that the 2 places intel builds foundaries?

I'm pretty sure they have at least one in China:

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1328078

now if only trump can get the silicon mining in the usa too, and manufacturing to group together into manufacturing cities where you don't live there unless you work in those plants like shisheng , then we'll really be competitive.

We might go there, especially if UBI never takes hold. Though I think things would shape up differently here than in China.

I have voted towards paying my fair share towards infrastructure and health care.

Just an FYI, but legally; morally; and ethically there is no fair share in the U.S.A. You aren't held responsible for any advantages you had from birth, nor are you supposed to be penalized for "doing better than someone else". We don't have nobility in this country; there is no "noblesse oblige". The closest we could come to a "fair share" in the US would be to estimate the sum total benefits you've received from the government and then to hand you a bill should there have been any discrepancy between that sum and what you paid in taxes. Set aside Social Security and Medicare for a moment since those weren't supposed to be financial holes.

Your income and age don't intrinsically make you more responsible for paying the public expenses than anyone else. If you are genuinely interested in using your economic advantage to help others, stop voting for politicians who will force you to do so through government mandate and use your own money to help on your own time. Or invest, which produces its own societal benefits.

It's just one of those ironic double-edged sword things. The states that have fought tooth and nail against increasing federal subsidiaries are typically those who benefit the most from federal aid.

When someone is paying your bills, they call the shots. Those who pay the most into the Federal treasury through taxation essentially own the Federal government and those who depend on it. Political action can only go so far. A vote against Federal subsidy is a vote for freedom, including all its costs. Sometimes freedom is difficult.

but the sad fact you see people actively fight against resources that benefit them far more than those who pay for it.

There is nothing sad about people who are willing to endure poverty for the sake of freedom. Maybe someday they'll find a way out of poverty. Odds are they'll do it mostly on their own, if at all.

Huey P. Long-style paternalism has had its day, and it was never that good even in the beginning.

[AliG]

Just an FYI, but legally; morally; and ethically there is no fair share in the U.S.A. You aren't held responsible for any advantages you had from birth, nor are you supposed to be penalized for "doing better than someone else". We don't have nobility in this country; there is no "noblesse oblige". The closest we could come to a "fair share" in the US would be to estimate the sum total benefits you've received from the government and then to hand you a bill should there have been any discrepancy between that sum and what you paid in taxes. Set aside Social Security and Medicare for a moment since those weren't supposed to be financial holes.

I dunno, I think there are certain things that I clearly benefited from by growing up in a progressive city. There's really no way I'd have gotten to where I am without having a robust public school system (and I literally wouldn't be alive if it weren't for medicare paying for my childhood surgery). These are things that were provided to me by the tax dollars of others, and I think it's reasonable for me to pass that on to the next generation.

As I noted earlier, I'm perfectly fine with letting conservative states let me re-invest my money locally. Just seems odd to me that they wouldn't want my help.

[drmrlordx]

Public schools are mandatory in every state. Ignoring the Dept. of Education in DC, the existence of independent school authorities is a manifestation of all powers not assigned to the federal government being delegated to the states. Perhaps there are some that argue that there should be no public education at all (and perhaps they also argue against public water/electric/gas utilities). Reducto ad absurdum does not necessarily strengthen the case for public subsidy of everything.

I am sure they would like your help in the form of charity or even voluntary lump-sum payments to the governmental organization of your choice. What they do not want is further taxation (generally speaking).

At this point I am getting pretty far off-topic. I would like to add that President Trump's attempts to badger, bully, and coerce companies to open new facilities in the US represents an entirely different form of paternalism. He also threatens to make us less free in his own special way.