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Thread: [News] TSMC considers building plant in US

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    Join XS BOINC Team StyM's Avatar
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    [News] TSMC considers building plant in US

    http://www.fudzilla.com/news/42625-t...ng-plant-in-us

    Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company held its most recent investors conference on January 12th, during which company officials said that it has not ruled out the possibility of building a facility in the US as a response to recent nationalistic pleas to restore American manufacturing jobs.

    During the investors conference, company chairman Morris Chang said that fabricating chips in the US ?may not necessarily be a good thing,? though the option is still under preliminary consideration. He indicated that the foundry is already helping to create jobs in the US by allowing integrated device manufacturers to succeed on a global scale and expand their operations.

    TSMC also disclosed that revenues from customers based in North America accounted for 65 percent of its total wafer revenues in 2016. It projects revenues to stay about 60 percent this year, says Chang.
    "Although TSMC is very clear that it would be much more expensive to make chips outside of Taiwan, it's inevitable for the world's largest contract chipmaker to take 'Made in the U.S.' into consideration," said Sanford C. Bernstein analyst Mark Li. "The alternative is that it would lose Apple orders without moving to America."

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    Damm Trump policy may works ...

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    Now that we have a real American president who wants to help our country rather than destroy it. Four more days until we escape the event horizon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dengyong View Post
    Now that we have a real American president who wants to help our country rather than destroy it. Four more days until we escape the event horizon.
    If he doesn't get a firewall put on his Twitter account, I doubt he will even finish his presidency. I foresee his "legacy" to be the first President to go to war over social media

    er, I mean
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    Quote Originally Posted by StAndrew View Post
    If he doesn't get a firewall put on his Twitter account, I doubt he will even finish his presidency. I foresee his "legacy" to be the first President to go to war over social media

    er, I mean
    I smile every time he pisses someone off.... because he only pisses off the ones who deserve it. After 8 years of the worst and most anti-American president in US history, Trump can only make it better.

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    I'll send Trump a tweet "TSMC considers building plant in US" he'll get it done YEAH!
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    *ahem

    Let's not get all political and get stuff locked ok?
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    Xtreme Mentor dengyong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    *ahem

    Let's not get all political and get stuff locked ok?
    With so little traffic left on XS, why bother? Let the few remaining active members have a conversation. No one is forced to read it.

    Quote Originally Posted by techjesse View Post
    Thank you sir.

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    Hmm. Well the article DOES bring up Trump rather explicitly, so he does seem to be a part of the discussion so long as we discuss the article itself.

    So what exactly is it that's going to make it more expensive for TSMC to operate a fab in the US compared to Taiwan? Labor costs? Environmental regulations? I'm curious about that.

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    TSMC: Trump notwithstanding, new factories in the U.S. remain unlikely

    TSMC operates WaferTech, a 20-year-old chip factory in Camas. Long-sought expansion now appears very unlikely.

    Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. says it would require "a lot of sacrifices" to build more factories in the United States, regardless of what incentives president elect Donald Trump might offer.

    TSMC is a contract manufacturer, building chips for other electronics companies. It operates one U.S. factory, the 20-year-old WaferTech facility in Camas.

    TSMC designed WaferTech's 260-acre campus to accommodate multiple additional factories, called fabs in the chip industry's parlance. But WaferTech experienced a series of organizational and logistical setbacks in its early years, and additional work never materialized.

    WaferTech remains one of Clark County's largest employers, though, with more than 1,000 people working at the site. And civic leaders have long harbored hopes TSMC might yet expand in Camas.

    Not likely, longtime TSMC chairman Morris Chang told investors on a conference call after the company reported quarterly earnings last week.

    "I do not rule it out, but I see a lot of sacrifices that we and our customers will have to make if we do that," Chang said.

    TSMC has clustered its leading-edge fabs together in Taiwan to pool resources, including engineers, who commute between the facilities.

    "Now if we have a plant in the U.S., we won't be able to do that anymore," Chang said. He added that TSMC has thousands of vendors nearby in Taiwan.

    "These are things that we're going to lose if we set up a plant in the U.S.," he said. "And if we lose these things our customers will lose too."

    TSMC has said in the past that it is unlikely to expand in the U.S., but this is its fullest public explanation of why it will not.

    Elsewhere in the call, Chang praised Trump's goal of creating more jobs in the U.S., and took credit for "hundreds of thousands" of American jobs at fabless semiconductor companies who outsource their manufacturing to TSMC.

    The semiconductor industry is watching the Trump administration closely, not just for his approach to trade and jobs but also for his tolerance for Chinese investment in the U.S. chip sector.

    A panel commissioned by the Obama administration just issued a report warning that "a concerted push by China to reshape the market to favor their needs threatens the competitiveness of U.S. industry and the national and global benefits that an innovative U.S. industry brings."

    Lattice Semiconductor, Portland's largest tech company, is currently trying to sell its business to investors in China. That transaction is under review by federal regulators, and members of Congress have asked the feds to block it.

    While Chang said he embraces the report's recommendations, he said he's skeptical any U.S. administration would follow advisory recommendations, and indicated it's even less likely given the pending change in administrations.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-fo...nding_new.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by drmrlordx View Post
    Hmm. Well the article DOES bring up Trump rather explicitly, so he does seem to be a part of the discussion so long as we discuss the article itself.

    So what exactly is it that's going to make it more expensive for TSMC to operate a fab in the US compared to Taiwan? Labor costs? Environmental regulations? I'm curious about that.
    I'd wager its a healthy combination of both.

    Material costs are roughly the same, but you pay significantly more per hour to both build the fab facilities, and then staff them with quality line workers. For reference, UAW workers with decent standing make $28/hour, get paid 1.5x overtime (2x on Sundays) and are given full health benefits. Compound that with having to actually provide healthy working environments and clean up the waste properly and you end up with significantly higher costs.

    It's basically why a VW Golf costs so much more than a Ford Focus. Material wise the Golf is a tick better, but we put in significantly more electronics to make up for that. The big difference is in German manufacturing employees getting paid excellent salaries + benefits (not that UAW pay is bad for unskilled labor, but its still a lower percentage of our costs).
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans de Vries View Post

    JF-AMD posting: IPC increases!!!!!!! How many times did I tell you!!!

    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
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    Regards, Hans

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    Quote Originally Posted by madcho View Post
    Damm Trump policy may works ...
    Lowes --big box home improvement retailer based in western North Carolina-- is cutting over 2,500 store management and corporate HQ jobs.


    I missed the Trumptanic Tweet taking credit for that ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbortRetryFail? View Post
    Lowes --big box home improvement retailer based in western North Carolina-- is cutting over 2,500 store management and corporate HQ jobs.
    As a result of economic damage caused by the anti-American obama administration. Good will always triumph... the recovery starts tomorrow.

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    Enough with the politics. If you want to spew irrelevant slander go hang out on reddit.

    Keep this thread purely to discussion of TSMC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans de Vries View Post

    JF-AMD posting: IPC increases!!!!!!! How many times did I tell you!!!

    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    .....}
    until (interrupt by Movieman)


    Regards, Hans

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliG View Post
    Enough with the politics. If you want to spew irrelevant slander go hang out on reddit.

    Keep this thread purely to discussion of TSMC.
    There are currently 391 users online. 7 members and 384 guests

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    I didn't know about the Camas facility. The whole argument about engineers seems . . . fishy?

    Is it really that much of a problem for them that they can't hire more engineers (assuming they're available) to staff additional operations in Camas? Or are they stretching thin the talent that they have already? Other foundry operators do not seem to have this problem.

    Thanks for posting that regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliG View Post
    I'd wager its a healthy combination of both.

    Material costs are roughly the same, but you pay significantly more per hour to both build the fab facilities, and then staff them with quality line workers.
    How much does TSMC pay a quality line worker in Taiwan? I would assume that these workers are far above and beyond the skill and pay scale of someone working in (for example) a Chinese Foxconn facility with suicide nets.

    Compound that with having to actually provide healthy working environments and clean up the waste properly and you end up with significantly higher costs.
    I am also curious about the working environments in TSMC's fabs in Taiwan. As for toxic waste from fab operation:

    http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cg...ntext=cenv_fac

    That was written 17 years ago, so I would assume that things have changed somewhat . . . but the fact remains that fabs use some ugly stuff. I wonder what TSMC does with all their waste?

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