X

    Subscribe to New Ads!

    Receive weekly ads in your inbox!



Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: I am Curious.... Would this idea fly??

  1. #1
    Xtreme Legend
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Plymouth (UK)
    Posts
    5,285

    I am Curious.... Would this idea fly??

    Some other projects and even on WCG have seen folks that rented computer power although usually for financial gain.

    I guess most of us here have to tread a fine line between spending on hardware and the power to run it and on those other life expenses that seem to get in the way.

    I am curious about just how much you other members like to be hands on with crunching. I would like to know because I have been toying with an idea that has been broached before I think.....

    That Idea is to physically locate some computer power in either a data center or somewhere that a member can do all of the maintenance but that somewhere should have the lowest cost for either co-location services or Kw/hours of electricity.

    Perhaps the more radical part of this idea is that we as a team fund something like a server rack or a blade server and then cores could be allocated pro rata in much the same way that costs would have to be.

    Ok, so this is just the very basic principle.... I invite your thoughts and comments


    My Biggest Fear Is When I die, My Wife Sells All My Stuff For What I Told Her I Paid For It.
    79 SB threads and 32 IB Threads across 4 rigs 111 threads Crunching!!

  2. #2
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,152
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Some other projects and even on WCG have seen folks that rented computer power although usually for financial gain.

    I guess most of us here have to tread a fine line between spending on hardware and the power to run it and on those other life expenses that seem to get in the way.

    I am curious about just how much you other members like to be hands on with crunching. I would like to know because I have been toying with an idea that has been broached before I think.....

    That Idea is to physically locate some computer power in either a data center or somewhere that a member can do all of the maintenance but that somewhere should have the lowest cost for either co-location services or Kw/hours of electricity.

    Perhaps the more radical part of this idea is that we as a team fund something like a server rack or a blade server and then cores could be allocated pro rata in much the same way that costs would have to be.

    Ok, so this is just the very basic principle.... I invite your thoughts and comments
    I agree - I would love to do this but I move around too much to babysit the rigs (Power at my brother's house is 7c/kwh...but they have to be able to handle the summer heat as they sit in a shed - otherwise AC drives up the cost). I have mine up that are just plug and play, been chugging for 3 years - total down time has been ~2 weeks/cruncher. Over 3 years that's not so bad...

    When I finally get out of school (if that ever happens) and get settled down, if power is cheap in the area I'd be willing to host machines for anyone who wants one under some agreement (Cost of the machine + .07*power draw or 0.11*power draw with an agreement to run long enough to justify the cost of the machine, or something to that effect). This works particularly well for you International crunchers with expensive power... but you don't get to play with the hardware (though I'd encourage remote log-ins so I don't have to manage software - just build, install and keep powered on...).

    Unfortunately I can't currently do this as I am not in a stable location - move too often to babysit any but the most stable rigs. But if someone else was up for it, would be a great team addition!


    24 hour prime stable? Please, I'm 24/7/365 WCG stable!

    So you can do Furmark, Can you Grid???

  3. #3
    Xtreme Legend
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Plymouth (UK)
    Posts
    5,285
    I currently pay 25.5 cents. My total usage is 1000Kw/h per month of which 900 roughly is on my rigs

    Taken over the year and using your rate as an example 900 (call it 800 if I run one rig here on my desk) so 800 * .185 * 12 = $1776 available per year towards a new rig/server/blade.

    I am sure you see the principle.

    Add to that the fact that hardware attracts a 20% premium in the form of VAT (effectively purchase tax) the whole idea is even more attractive for me
    Last edited by OldChap; 10-05-2014 at 02:08 PM.


    My Biggest Fear Is When I die, My Wife Sells All My Stuff For What I Told Her I Paid For It.
    79 SB threads and 32 IB Threads across 4 rigs 111 threads Crunching!!

  4. #4
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,048
    When I get my house (in November, nearly there!) I wouldn't mind babysitting rigs. Not sure exactly what my kWhr rate is going to be yet but I think I was told it is around 10-12 cents.

    Would be nice to heat the place in the winter Summer could suck though, at least it has a basement they could run in.
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

  5. #5
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,152
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    I currently pay 25.5 cents. My total usage is 1000Kw/h per month of which 900 roughly is on my rigs

    Taken over the year and using your rate as an example 900 (call it 800 if I run one rig here on my desk) so 800 * .185 * 12 = $1776 available per year towards a new rig/server/blade.

    I am sure you see the principle.

    Add to that the fact that hardware attracts a 20% premium in the form of VAT (effectively purchase tax) the whole idea is even more attractive for me
    Don't forget to mention the exchange rate! Y'all get killed there - how they do $199 for the part here and 199 pounds + VAT for the part there.

    Heck - you could probably put a premium on it and charge an extra 2c/kwh, the Aussies and European friends would be getting a screaming deal and the american guy would get a little for his efforts... at least if you were in an area with cheap electricity. I know we used to get 6c/kwh... Sadly though, my parents are at 9.6c/kwh, so brother's place would be best.

    Hopefully sparky can get a working setup for y'all though - he's the most probably near term solution...


    24 hour prime stable? Please, I'm 24/7/365 WCG stable!

    So you can do Furmark, Can you Grid???

  6. #6
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    448
    Right now we pay about .08/kW/hr here. I could probably put some rigs in the kitchen, but we are all maxed out on space everywhere else. In fact, I'm hunting for an "affordable" workshop space right now. I'm still kicking myself for not getting a space in this building up in North Philly 4 months ago. $1/sq foot with electricity and FIOS internet service included. However, the neighborhood at night is what worried me.

    I could check with my buddies old neighbor. I know he moved his businesses servers to a hosting facility. I never asked how much they pay for power, but I"m betting its a lot less than .08/kW/hr.
    Desktop rigs:
    Oysterhead- Intel i5-2320 CPU@3.0Ghz, Zalman 9500AT2, 8Gb Patriot 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM, 120Gb Kingston V200+ SSD, 1Tb Seagate HD, Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon 64 bit, LG 330W PSU

    Flying Frog Brigade-Intel Xeon W3520@2.66Ghz, 6Gb Hynix 1066Mhz DDR3 RAM, 640Gb Hitachi HD, 512Mb GDDR5 AMD HD4870, Mac OSX 10.6.8/Linux Mint 14 Cinnamon dual boot

    Laptop:
    Colonel Claypool-Intel T6600 Core 2 Duo, 4Gb 1066Mhz DDR3 RAM, 1Gb GDDR3 Nvidia 230M,240Gb Edge SATA6 SSD, Windows 7 Home 64 bit




  7. #7
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,048
    I have a basement I can put stuff in so space isn't too big a concern. Heck the house is a 3 bedroom and I'm single, so I could turn one room into a server room if necessary lol.
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

  8. #8
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    I have a basement I can put stuff in so space isn't too big a concern. Heck the house is a 3 bedroom and I'm single, so I could turn one room into a server room if necessary lol.
    Just be careful with power requirements! (And don't forget to tell the electrician to make them 240V as it has better efficiency!)

    I can see it now:
    Electrician: "Tell me again - why do you need 4 240V outlets each on their own 30 Amp breaker?"
    Sparky: "It's a, ahh... hobby of mine! See there's this thing called Distributive computing..."
    Electrician: "Hey man, it's ok - if you don't want to tell me, that's fine, I'm just saying, this is going to require upgrading the breaker to the street so you might want to get your story straight before the electric company starts asking questions..."



    24 hour prime stable? Please, I'm 24/7/365 WCG stable!

    So you can do Furmark, Can you Grid???

  9. #9
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    4,162
    A Bitcoin miner got a police raid and all of his miners confiscated because the electric company thought he had a grow house, pot, because his electric usage was so high. Guess the cops were embarrassed when they found rooms full of computers but since they found a wee bit of pot they had a reason to bust him. Why they took the PCs I only guess in the hopes they found something illegal on them so they didn't look so stupid.

  10. #10
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,048
    Quote Originally Posted by Otis11 View Post
    Just be careful with power requirements! (And don't forget to tell the electrician to make them 240V as it has better efficiency!)

    I can see it now:
    Electrician: "Tell me again - why do you need 4 240V outlets each on their own 30 Amp breaker?"
    Sparky: "It's a, ahh... hobby of mine! See there's this thing called Distributive computing..."
    Electrician: "Hey man, it's ok - if you don't want to tell me, that's fine, I'm just saying, this is going to require upgrading the breaker to the street so you might want to get your story straight before the electric company starts asking questions..."

    I AM the electrician, there's a reason for my name
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

  11. #11
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    4,162
    That's why they call Sparky Dr. Kill-a-watt.... "watt happened"? "watt did you do this time"?





    Last edited by PoppaGeek; 10-08-2014 at 06:28 AM.

  12. #12
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    I AM the electrician, there's a reason for my name
    Well yeah - normally I'm the electrician too, but when you have to change connections to the grid they're gonna ask for certification of the new work that's requiring the change...

    And just a thought - You might be able to negotiate lower electric rates based on usage - I know back in Texas, my parents found it was cheaper to pay a higher monthly connection fee and get lower per-kwh charges. This also allows them to draw a higher peak current, but I don't think they've ever gotten even close to that limit...


    24 hour prime stable? Please, I'm 24/7/365 WCG stable!

    So you can do Furmark, Can you Grid???

  13. #13
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Land o' 10,000 lakes
    Posts
    837
    Electric rates have gone up for me.
    Used to be ~$0.115/kWh
    Got my bill today, $0.1333/kWh

    This idea has been kicked around before, but I'm not aware of anyone actually going through with it.

    I'm almost always available on Steam to chat. Same username.

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    8,603
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Some other projects and even on WCG have seen folks that rented computer power although usually for financial gain.

    I guess most of us here have to tread a fine line between spending on hardware and the power to run it and on those other life expenses that seem to get in the way.

    I am curious about just how much you other members like to be hands on with crunching. I would like to know because I have been toying with an idea that has been broached before I think.....

    That Idea is to physically locate some computer power in either a data center or somewhere that a member can do all of the maintenance but that somewhere should have the lowest cost for either co-location services or Kw/hours of electricity.

    Perhaps the more radical part of this idea is that we as a team fund something like a server rack or a blade server and then cores could be allocated pro rata in much the same way that costs would have to be.

    Ok, so this is just the very basic principle.... I invite your thoughts and comments
    I remember 'Leviathan' from Venezuela had floated that idea before as his power costs were very low in that particular country for... some obvious reasons.

    I know a Flight Simulator Server which I help/helped manage with 24/7 access and near 100% uptime in the US, West Coast, was costing $100/month at a co-lo location. The big part of that cost was the space required from a mediocre GFX card which absolutely had to be installed. The server itself was no better than a i5. Nothing fancy whatsoever. It was bought and sent to the location.

  15. #15
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,048
    Quote Originally Posted by Otis11 View Post
    Well yeah - normally I'm the electrician too, but when you have to change connections to the grid they're gonna ask for certification of the new work that's requiring the change...

    And just a thought - You might be able to negotiate lower electric rates based on usage - I know back in Texas, my parents found it was cheaper to pay a higher monthly connection fee and get lower per-kwh charges. This also allows them to draw a higher peak current, but I don't think they've ever gotten even close to that limit...
    I think my grid connection would be ok. 150A isn't massive but should be enough, I mean while I'm willing to host some systems I'm not ready to put an entire 50kW worth of systems in my basement
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

  16. #16
    Xtreme Legend
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Plymouth (UK)
    Posts
    5,285
    150 Amps? No trouble if that is 220v.

    If we just had access to 80 then our bill would be in the order of $10,000 pa at a rate of $0.07


    Just think.....17Kw of free heating each winter


    My Biggest Fear Is When I die, My Wife Sells All My Stuff For What I Told Her I Paid For It.
    79 SB threads and 32 IB Threads across 4 rigs 111 threads Crunching!!

  17. #17
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    8,603
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    150 Amps? No trouble if that is 220v.

    If we just had access to 80 then our bill would be in the order of $10,000 pa at a rate of $0.07


    Just think.....17Kw of free heating each winter
    Nah it's 110V Stateside.

  18. #18
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    I think my grid connection would be ok. 150A isn't massive but should be enough, I mean while I'm willing to host some systems I'm not ready to put an entire 50kW worth of systems in my basement
    Where's you sense of duty? Where's your dedication?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    150 Amps? No trouble if that is 220v.

    If we just had access to 80 then our bill would be in the order of $10,000 pa at a rate of $0.07


    Just think.....17Kw of free heating each winter
    And 17kw of free heating each summer too!
    (Sparky might have the window's open all winter...)


    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] riptide View Post
    Nah it's 110V Stateside.
    Well it depends where he's measuring it from - while all my sockets are 120V, I have 240V coming into my house. So if Sparky's measuring 150A rail to rail, it's 220, if he's measuring rail to neutral and using both rails he only has 75A per rail.


    24 hour prime stable? Please, I'm 24/7/365 WCG stable!

    So you can do Furmark, Can you Grid???

  19. #19
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,048
    It is 150A rail to rail on the 240V input.

    See, my house has an old fuel oil furnance that is due to be replaced next year, and the tank is only 3/4 full, and winter is coming, so, "Free" heat would be welcome...
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

  20. #20
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    It is 150A rail to rail on the 240V input.

    See, my house has an old fuel oil furnance that is due to be replaced next year, and the tank is only 3/4 full, and winter is coming, so, "Free" heat would be welcome...
    If you're willing to do some babysitting and ready to permit the "Free" heat during the summer too, I'm very sure you're have a few takers...


    24 hour prime stable? Please, I'm 24/7/365 WCG stable!

    So you can do Furmark, Can you Grid???

  21. #21
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,048
    Depending on how many it is and how much extra it runs the AC I may be able to do summers also. I suppose if the total electric for them is getting paid either way I don't really care. I can babysit rigs
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

  22. #22
    Xtreme Legend
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Plymouth (UK)
    Posts
    5,285
    Working on data to get us all some comparative figures for various rigs/cpu's at the moment but essentially it should be the power hungry beasts that would most benefit from this idea. With that in mind some of the cheaper g5 servers that one sees around might be worth consideration (dual 5410's for example) or move i7-920 era stuff to you.


    My Biggest Fear Is When I die, My Wife Sells All My Stuff For What I Told Her I Paid For It.
    79 SB threads and 32 IB Threads across 4 rigs 111 threads Crunching!!

  23. #23
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,048
    As long as I have enough power left on the mains to allow me to run some power tools and compressors for my garage and I can still keep a reasonable temperature inside the house I'm fine with it

    We'd have to figure out how the money side would work though - I don't want someone thinking it is "income" and trying to tax me on it when it is just reimbursement for power usage.

    *edit* Dude, PG posted this pic in the Funnyz thread and dang it I want to build this in my basement now I could even do my mass watercool idea I had dreamed of a long time ago.

    Last edited by Sparky; 10-22-2014 at 08:49 AM.
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •