New Computer build, what do you think?

[PoppaGeek]

I am looking to do a new PC build. I already know most of what I want for it but I do have a few questions about the CPU and a Liquid Cooler system. The main motivation for the build:

I really like the new Nvidia GTX 970 4gig and want one. I fear my 1055T 6 core @ 3.5gz is not enough to feed it. I have had good luck with Asus and EVGA GPUs and will most likely get the Asus STRIX.

While gaming has become problematic for me as my health deteriorates I still like trying and sometimes just goofing around in a game like Watch Dogs, doing the QR codes, finding Slenderman in the alley, hacking web cams and sometimes just tearing up the place and seeing how long I can survive, is still fun. Several new games are suggesting 4gz 8 cores.

That leads to the CPU. I am probably going to get a AMD FX. For those who do not know me I have not bought an Intel since the Pentium 2. I have read many reviews and forums and the only concern I have is the wattage of the FX chips when under a 24/7 100% load. They seem to do OK points wise. I am looking at the FX-8350 and leaving it at 4gz. I know some of you are running FX-8xxx chips and would like to hear what you have to say about them. Please specify the model.

That leads to the second question. Cooling. I have never used liquid cooling. From the looks of the reviews I have seen Cooler Master CPU liquid cooler kits seem to get good customer reviews. I am looking for a low hassle easy to get up and going cooler. Remember I am 63 and have problems with games. So hoses, connectors, radiators and reservoirs is getting to be too much.

I have a Asus 660 TI and a ASUS 270x. Happy with both.
ASUS STRIX-GTX970-DC20C-4GD5

Gigabyte AM3+ AMD 970 SATA 6Gbps USB 3.0 ATX DDR3 1800 AMD Motherboard GA-970A-UD3P

I have wanted the HAF EVO since it came out.
Cooler Master HAF XB EVO

16 gigs ram, probably Gskill, Crucial or Muskin

To recap my questions are:

Your comments on owning and using a AMD FX-8xxx CPU? Wattage, heat, WCG performance? I am sure it will be fine for games.

Liquid cooling: Cooler Master kits OK? Single fan 120 radiator or dual 240? I am thinking the dual rad might be better for 24/7 100% load for a FX-8xxx???

The AMD FX 9370 H20 Cooled AM3+ 8C DT 220W BE H2O is very interesting, good price and I like the whole kit idea but 220 Watts makes me want to scream like a little girl and run in the other direction! Should I man up and undervolt and underclock it?

Thanks!

[vario]

Get the new minor revision chips, 8320E/8370/E , they will suck less power and be better air clockers (possibly med water too) ,Dave has his at 5ghz around now, but realistically speaking, 4,5ghz should be no problem and at a below 200W region.
Oh , and about thoughts on using one, to be frank, any sustained load above 1.4v will be very hard on your mobo/power delivery/cooling.There is a sweet spot with these chips , i would shoot for a 8370E at 1.4v and 4.5ghz

[PoppaGeek]

Get the new minor revision chips, 8320E/8370/E , they will suck less power and be better air clockers (possibly med water too) ,Dave has his at 5ghz around now, but realistically speaking, 4,5ghz should be no problem and at a below 200W region.
Oh , and about thoughts on using one, to be frank, any sustained load above 1.4v will be very hard on your mobo/power delivery/cooling.There is a sweet spot with these chips , i would shoot for a 8370E at 1.4v and 4.5ghz

Good info. Thanks!

[vario]

Good info. Thanks!

No prob, you should just read dave`s tests here

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...38#post5239038

Or contact him to get more precise info

[PoppaGeek]

Just found out this MB supports both Crossfire AND Nvidai SLI.

GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

[MaxCFM]

Just found out this MB supports both Crossfire AND Nvidai SLI.

GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

I have one of those sitting in its box, great MB! I run its big bother the UD7 version of it as my main rig for now. I built the UD3 MB for a project that is now heading in a different direction using Intel chips so its now gathering dust.

[PoppaGeek]

My current PC was built spring of 2009.

1055T @ 3.5gz
8 gigs ram
MSI GD-70
2 7870 Crossfire.
256 gig Samsung SSD
2 500 gig WD HD
Win 8.1

I was surprised by Win 8.1 After all I read I thought I would hate it. Nope I like it. I do not use the Metro like interface but everything else has been fine. I especially like how it handles dual monitor setups.

I also have 2 other 6 cores. One a Linux Mint desktop and a Vista machine for grandkids to game with me.

Truthfully my main machine does fine. 5 years on and it still plays any game I want more than fine. Watch Dogs, Elite Dangerous, 7 Days to Die, Rift. Elite Dangerous spreads evenly over the 6 cores and never goes over 50% and uses Crossfire perfectly. So it is butter smooth as I crash into asteroids, star docks, space trash and other ships. I suck so badly in a space ship. Even the Thrustmaster joystick was little help. It will be the first online game I am banned from.

So reason for a new build:

Many games are coming out that had a "Recommended" AMD 8 core, 64 bit OS, usually just listing Win 7 and 8. Vista is no longer listed as a supported OS for new AMD GPU drivers and some games. Will run but not supported. Personally I think it is great that there are games supporting 8 cores, requiring a 64bit OS and 8 gigs.

I think a shinny new GTX 970 deserves an faster CPU. Comments? 3.5 fast enough?

This may very well be the last PC I ever build. Want something a bit more current than a 1055T on a GD-70.

A 63 year old fool needs decent hardware to embarrass his ancestors and disgrace his heritage playing a game made for 20-30 year olds. Did you know the Star Docks will destroy your space ship for certain, uh, infractions? BANG and your space junk.

Note:
I have zero experience with Liquid Cooling. Does anyone have any experience with these new kits like the CORSAIR Hydro Series H100i or the Cooler Master series? Please don't leave me to Newegg reviews for knowledge and enlightenment.

Anyone thinking of a new PC build?

[OldChap]

From the top I don't have much to offer for advice really

I have owned an amd cpu but it was a 5050e powering a router so I will pass the baton on this cpu choice unless you want to talk about Intel. On the speed front, get as fast as you can whilst keeping an eye on power use.

With win7 about to become a bit sparse in that new oem purchases will soon no longer be supported by MS and as you like win 8 anyway I get the feeling that this might be a decision already made.

You mention getting 8 gigs. If your pockets are deep enough splash out and get 16. I am not a gamer (perhaps I should have said so before) but I do see many of the things I run behaving better with 16.

budget for an ssd too. A 256GB for os and games can be had for various price/performance bands. This IS something I have researched and I have purchased some in the past year.

Water cooling: I did win an AiO cooler which I put in my boy's rig. There have been no complaints using this dual width rad but top performance it is not. I may need to re-fit it with a view to getting things to run cooler.

If you want to build water cooling from separates then maybe I might have more to offer in the way of guidance.

Ask away if you need more from me

[Otis11]

Note:
I have zero experience with Liquid Cooling. Does anyone have any experience with these new kits like the CORSAIR Hydro Series H100i or the Cooler Master series? Please don't leave me to Newegg reviews for knowledge and enlightenment.

Anyone thinking of a new PC build?

I used the Corsair H100 in a 4930k build running 4.5 Ghz. Under WCG the two weeks I, ah, stress tested it, temps were very reasonable - Don't remember exactly, but iirc it was mid to upper 50C. I've also used the H60s a lot (I think I'm on number 5? - 4 currently running, one gathering dust) - had mixed reviews at first as it can be difficult to get the system mounted without getting air bubbles in the tim and slowly degrading the performance over time. (Remounting the HS fixed it, but took a few tried) They seem to have improved that with the latest revision as the new ones I got had slightly better mounting. Still not great, but given the price/performance, I'm willing to put up with the small one time annoyance.

The H60s are on 2700ks and 3770ks running between 4.2 and 4.5 - temps always very reasonable (Upper 50s).

I should note also that the included fans are adequate, but you can get improved performance with stronger fans or additional fans to put in push-pull...

Don't know how much heat the AMD chips put out, but that should give you a good reference.

Let me know if there's anything else I can help with!

Edit: reading OC post - a small SSD is very important. Your whole system will feel so much faster... it's night and day. Even the slow SSDs are lighting compared to any HDD. If budget allows, I'd also recommend the 16 gigs - windows 7 and 8 both cache files with high probability of being accessed in the extra ram, so while you may not see it being used, it will help commonly used programs respond faster.

[Sparky]

LOVE my SSD. I have had one in my main rig for a while now, and in my laptop. Put an old 64GB SSD in my parents' PC and it breathed new life into that old Core 2 system.

Then I go to work and sit there drumming my fingers as my work PC churns on an archaic HD.

[Otis11]

LOVE my SSD. I have had one in my main rig for a while now, and in my laptop. Put an old 64GB SSD in my parents' PC and it breathed new life into that old Core 2 system.

Then I go to work and sit there drumming my fingers as my work PC churns on an archaic HD.

This. Just this. Go SSD and you'll never go back to a purely HDD system ever again. Only for storing large amounts of media...

I never did try having a SSD "buffer" like they were advertising - Ya know, having a 24 GB SSD that has nothing on it but caches commonly used files. Anyone know how effectively that works? Can it be done without changing the install? Would love to add a little SSD to my parents computer as it's slow as crap, but actually has a decent CPU... But way too much on it to try and uninstall/reinstall/move...

[yojimbo197]

This. Just this. Go SSD and you'll never go back to a purely HDD system ever again. Only for storing large amounts of media...

I never did try having a SSD "buffer" like they were advertising - Ya know, having a 24 GB SSD that has nothing on it but caches commonly used files. Anyone know how effectively that works? Can it be done without changing the install? Would love to add a little SSD to my parents computer as it's slow as crap, but actually has a decent CPU... But way too much on it to try and uninstall/reinstall/move...

When I first started using SSD's, I didn't leave any free space. But when I was helping OC set up a Linux distro on a Kingston HyperX SSD for Movieman, part of the instruction set was to set up a minimum "free space" cache, along with a swap cache. I did that with my Kingston V200 and it made it peppier than it used to be(Though part of the pep may be that I also installed LM17 with the newer kernel). The other thing I did was scrub the drive completely using the drive eraser on my Parted Magic disc. Supposedly this sort of scrubbing will return the SSD to "out of the box" performance. I just did this to the 128Gb SSD in a Lenovo T410s I refurbed last week and it speeded up W7, even from a supposedly "clean install".

If you are going to use anything besides the basic stuff in Windows on your new cruncher, you probably want to get a 240-256Gb SSD. 120-128Gb drives are a bit on the small side for W7+Office package+other programs.

[PoppaGeek]

This. Just this. Go SSD and you'll never go back to a purely HDD system ever again. Only for storing large amounts of media...

I never did try having a SSD "buffer" like they were advertising - Ya know, having a 24 GB SSD that has nothing on it but caches commonly used files. Anyone know how effectively that works? Can it be done without changing the install? Would love to add a little SSD to my parents computer as it's slow as crap, but actually has a decent CPU... But way too much on it to try and uninstall/reinstall/move...

I put a 128 gig SSD on the Win 8.1 main PC. The 2 500 gig HDs that had the Vista install along with tons of documents, pics and games are still there. Showed Steam where the games were, create a few shortcuts to the pictures directory and documents. Everything still there. Only had to re-install a few programs but most of them had updates anyway. It was real easy and I lost nothing. Besides a very fast boot time alt-tab out of and back to a game is almost instant now. Sweet.

Also put a 32 gig SSD on desktop Linux box and mounted a 500 gig HD. And a 64 gig SSD for my Linux Laptop. It now comes out of hibernation almost instantly. All this and all the SSDs are on older SATA controllers. While I am sure a newer SATA 3 controller would look good under benchmarks the biggest advantage is just going from HD to SSD.



Still thinking on what to build. Made a mistake and poked around Ebay. How does 32 2.4 cores, 2 Opterons and MB for $350 sound? Makes me feel faint. Maybe my 1055T with 7870 crossfire will be good for a few more years.......

[Sparky]

Dude I get some sweet (and expensive) ideas floating in my head too when I browse places like that.

[Otis11]

When I first started using SSD's, I didn't leave any free space. But when I was helping OC set up a Linux distro on a Kingston HyperX SSD for Movieman, part of the instruction set was to set up a minimum "free space" cache, along with a swap cache. I did that with my Kingston V200 and it made it peppier than it used to be(Though part of the pep may be that I also installed LM17 with the newer kernel). The other thing I did was scrub the drive completely using the drive eraser on my Parted Magic disc. Supposedly this sort of scrubbing will return the SSD to "out of the box" performance. I just did this to the 128Gb SSD in a Lenovo T410s I refurbed last week and it speeded up W7, even from a supposedly "clean install".

If you are going to use anything besides the basic stuff in Windows on your new cruncher, you probably want to get a 240-256Gb SSD. 120-128Gb drives are a bit on the small side for W7+Office package+other programs.

So you can't just set it up as a cache? Like, put it in empty, change a BIOS setting and it just puts the most accessed stuff on there?

And really? That much? The computer in question only had 240GB HDD... I mean it's W7, MS Office, Budget Pro, Chrome, FFox, TurboTax, Itunes... That might actually be everything. I'd be surprised if much didn't fit on a 64 GB that wasn't media... so as a cache I'd be surprised if 24 GB or so wasn't sufficient, but would probably go with slightly bigger, say 40-60 GB as those tend to be cheap...

And PG - EPay is a bad idea... the ideas it gives you... many times that nights dreams cost more than I can afford...

[PoppaGeek]

Dude I get some sweet (and expensive) ideas floating in my head too when I browse places like that.

32 cores. What that would mean is some decent RAC on one machine, easier to deal with heat so could run in summer......

I feel weak

[Kingcarcas]

200GB SSDs are finally affordable, I was thinking Intel 12 or 16 threaded beast but they are of course ..expensive. Tons of AMD cores might be the way to go for me.

Do you guys know what the deal is with servers now days? They have some weird Standard, i couldn't find a case/psu for them (SSI EEB?) ....

[Otis11]

200GB SSDs are finally affordable, I was thinking Intel 12 or 16 threaded beast but they are of course ..expensive. Tons of AMD cores might be the way to go for me.

Do you guys know what the deal is with servers now days? They have some weird Standard, i couldn't find a case/psu for them (SSI EEB?) ....

That brings up an interesting point... but in looking at it, it appears that Intel and AMD are pretty even at price points when you compare Intel threads to AMD cores... which might actually be an apt comparison (?). I think the tie breaker goes to intel for our work though as it has lower power consumption - which at 24/7, in non-negligible... Thoughts?

[OldChap]

Low power cores is king for me because of the cost of electricity here.

I think I would consider running lots of "atom" cores if I could get them cheap enough. and figure a way of running from a single power source. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157475 for example. Certainly worth a trial at least.

I tried amd for a short while on one rig.... older gen for sure but it was a power hog.

[PoppaGeek]

I know Intel has much better thermals and power requirements. And while I do poke around threads discussing them and browse Newegg's selection I really do not know enough about them to get very far. My biggest problem now is when someone is talking about an Intel chip and I go to Newegg to check it out the damn thing costs as much as I was going to spend on the whole damn build. I want more than a quad-core but anything more than that is too $$$$$. Unless I am really missing something.

I went with AMD for years in the beginning because of a Economics article I read once in The Economist. It was what would happen to the WORLD economy if AMD feel and Intel had no competition. This was not a fan boys opinion or Newegg review or some enthusiasts web site. it was an economics analysis in a respected publication. Anyway, I like to do my part so I always went with AMD when I could. While I have pretty happy with it all I am no fan boy. I love Nvidia GPUs. Love AMD GPUS? Try them under Linux. Why Linus flicked off Nvidia and not AMD i dunno. My experience with Radeons under Linux is the stuff of nightmares and horror. I am also tired of the heat to gigahertz of AMD CPUs.

But it is what I know. I can get 8 cores for under $200. They OC well. Or I can get 32 x 2.3gz cores and just game on what I have now. I do not see either option as being bad, would probably be fun.

I am open to an Intel but I need to be lead by the hand and NOT shown a chip that is as much as a AMD CPU AND motherboard combined.

The world CPU market has changed enough with the need for smartphone and tablet chips and completion from Samsung, ARM and AMD has branched out from just PC CPUs so I do not THINK Intel is threat it once was.

Anyway. I need more caffeine. Later.

[OldChap]

How would this compare?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-X79A-GD6...item35dd896552

I bought a similar setup 2nd hand that runs just fine at around 180w crunching @ 2.5. I seem to remember paying about GBP200 for the cpu and <GBP100 for the MB. then it is plus ram, cooler and psu

[PoppaGeek]

How would this compare?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-X79A-GD6...item35dd896552

I bought a similar setup 2nd hand that runs just fine at around 180w crunching @ 2.5. I seem to remember paying about GBP200 for the cpu and <GBP100 for the MB. then it is plus ram, cooler and psu

Would this have OC capabilities? I like the looks of the MB, 3 PCIe slots.

[OldChap]

The Board yes, the cpu not so much....might get 107 bclk

[PoppaGeek]

Newegg - Haswell

OK from what I understand these are the new Intel i7's. They seem to OC to 4.2 and above, I'd like a cooler 4gz I think, and have HT. Also I understand you do not get 100% of HT so not really 8 x 4gz. Right? With AMD I just core x gz to compare. That does not work with Intel HT right?

I found several Gigabyte and MSI MBs for LGA 1150 around $140. So $140 + $320 or so? So $480-$500 for CPU and MB. AMD would be $180 + $120 = $300. My electric is .095 kw/h. I am not sure I will save enough on power alone in 2-3 years.

Am I right or wrong? I do not know if I am looking at this right.

EDIT:
Correction. A 8 core AMD can be had for $139 that does 4gz easy.
So AMD = $260-270

[stoneageman]

Why Linus flicked off Nvidia and not AMD i dunno

Two reasons spring to mind. Their support for the open source nouveau drivers was poor & their binary drivers were crippled, regarding being able to adjust clocks & showing performance information. Both issues have now been, for the most part, addressed.