Haswell-e Discussion and **Soon** Owners Thread

[NKrader]

This may seem a little early but, I know there has to be a few people out there like me that are ready for this refresh and getting one!

What your thoughts on this refresh? What ya getting?

Me, I'm gonna be picking up a 5960x on release day! So stoked for 16 thread beast!

[Vicey]

I would have liked to see more innovation on the chipset side. From what I understand the X99 chipset still uses a 32nm process the same as the Z97 broadwell chipset does. It still has more USB 2.0 than USB 3.0 (8 USB 2.0 and 6 USB 3.0). It doesn't offer native Thunderbolt support, still no 10Gb ethernet. I'm happy it offers 10 SATA 3.0 but there's no SATA Express and the built in PCIe controller in the chipset is only gen 2.

On the memory side, we have an expensive move to DDR4 which we won't benefit from when we go to buy our rigs. The low voltages will benefit the XEON E5 and E7 v3 processors so data centres can lower power consumption with 1.2v and lower memory. For consumers the benefits of a higher bandwidth ceiling are not present at launch and we already have DDR3 kits at 2400MHz - 3200MHz available. Of course those higher kits (DDR3 3200MHz) are very very expensive but so is DDR4.

Then on the CPU's Intel is supposedly going to differentiate their Haswell-E chips not just by CPU Count, Clock Speed and Caches but also the amount of PCIe lanes available with the lowest end six core (Core i7 5820K) having x16 x8 x4 instead of x16 x16 x8 like the 5960X and 5930k.

So overall for me it's a mixed bag. I can look past the DDR4 being not such a great deal at the start of the platforms life, I can forgive Intel wanting to differentiate their processors by PCIe lane availability.

But the chipset.. this really drills home the point even more than X79 and X58 did that this is a server chipset, I don't think any of us were under any allusions that this was the case with X58 or X79, it wasn't hidden from us we all knew it was a XEON chipset sold for enthusiasts so we could get more cores, more memory and more PCIe lanes over LGA 1156, 1155 and 1150 platforms but now it's really starting to get on my nerves when they are not delivering enthusiast features.

To me Sata Express is a high end feature that should be included in the chipset of an enthusiast platform. But it won't be which puts us at the mercy of 3rd party OEM implementations that will more than likely not perform that great. Same story with USB 3.0, finally we actually have six in the chipset but they still included 8 USB 2.0. In my opinion it should have two USB 2.0 headers on the motherboard only for legacy cases but the back IO should all be USB3.0 at this point. Again at the mercy of 3rd party chips if we want a full compliment.

Finally there is Thunderbolt. Now admittedly this is not a chipset feature it's a separate IC. But Intel seems to have an aversion to supporting a display port passthrough system for dedicated GPU's. Asus brought out a card which does pass through but it required compatibility with their motherboards. Why Intel is not integrating Thunderbolt in to their enthusiast chipset is kinda ridiculous considering the amount of money we are paying. Same situation with 10Gb ethernet. Intel has the technology they have the IC's they just won't integrate it. We've had 1Gb networking on motherboards for like a decade as a standard feature. It's time for some innovation especially when our SSD's can hit 550MB/s over SATA but our networking maxes out at 125MB until you buy a dedicated network card that will likely cost more than your whole motherboard.

Now I know I'm ragging on the platform with this critique. But I'm not an Intel hater or anything, I have two X79 and a C602 E5 XEON setup. There very fast, I just wish there was more innovation in the feature sets. Them giving us server chipsets on enthusiast boards is getting annoying when the 1150 consumer stuff has more features built in.

Will I upgrade? I dunno, I may wait until a k version of the 8 Core is released. The 5960X whilst incredibly fast is a bit rich for my blood after I pay out for a new motherboard and DDR4 memory.

[NKrader]

Haha, people still trying to drive home "differences" and what I find funny is there really isn't much real world difference between 2600k and Haswell, we don't upgrade for performance boost anymore we upgrade cuz we want to. I don't care about any of the "new" "amazing" features. I won't use sata express or thunderbolt or any of the other gimmicky crap, I am only upgrading to x99 for more power efficiency and 2 more cores, period.

[zalbard]

I would have liked to see more innovation on the chipset side.
-snip-

Excellent post. I absolutely agree.

2 extra cores are definitely nice, but the chipset (which is refreshed a lot less often than on mainstream platforms) doesn't seem to be ahead of X79 at all.

I won't use sata express or thunderbolt or any of the other gimmicky crap

That's too bad, because we've reached the limits of SATA3 a couple of years ago.

While Intel offers M.2 storage support, this is definitely a temporary solution because M.2 is designed for [compact] mobile platforms, and SATA-E is supposed to be its desktop counterpart.

If M.2 is there at all... I am not certain.

[Vicey]

Haha, people still trying to drive home "differences" and what I find funny is there really isn't much real world difference between 2600k and Haswell, we don't upgrade for performance boost anymore we upgrade cuz we want to. I don't care about any of the "new" "amazing" features. I won't use sata express or thunderbolt or any of the other gimmicky crap, I am only upgrading to x99 for more power efficiency and 2 more cores, period.

I understand this want you have to upgrade to the latest and greatest thing. But in my opinion the X99 platform doesn't represent technical innovation it represents a brute force approach akin to the Pentium 4's ever increasing clock speeds and MXM dual-die dual core solution.

Maybe I'm just changing as a person but I no longer see a muscle car as interesting when we have Teslas on the road. I think you can tell which I think the X99 platform is.

[FlanK3r]

Im sp?ending money for 5960x too and R5E. My CPU will be not first days after NDA, but maybe 1 month later. Very expensive platfrom and need some time for the cash . But Im looking forward for multithreads benchmarks. I cant imagine how crazy it will be with 16 threads. Uffff.

[NKrader]

Excellent post. I absolutely agree.

2 extra cores are definitely nice, but the chipset (which is refreshed a lot less often than on mainstream platforms) doesn't seem to be ahead of X79 at all.


That's too bad, because we've reached the limits of SATA3 a couple of years ago.

While Intel offers M.2 storage support, this is definitely a temporary solution because M.2 is designed for [compact] mobile platforms, and SATA-E is supposed to be its desktop counterpart.

If M.2 is there at all... I am not certain.

i just this year started using drives other than green drives, trust me, current ssd are more than fast enough for anything im going to do, i dont really care if i have to wait 1 second for somthing to load instead of 0.0000001 second. its all so little time its quite irrelivant

I understand this want you have to upgrade to the latest and greatest thing. But in my opinion the X99 platform doesn't represent technical innovation it represents a brute force approach akin to the Pentium 4's ever increasing clock speeds and MXM dual-die dual core solution.

Maybe I'm just changing as a person but I no longer see a muscle car as interesting when we have Teslas on the road. I think you can tell which I think the X99 platform is.

except when you actually use all of that, 99% of the time i owned my 4930k it was at 100% usage. more cores are always usefull for some people. so what your saying contradicts how I feel, this cpu with its processingpower/watt is the best its ever been and i couldnt be happier.

and the correct comparison is more like a big truck vs a tesla, yes most people dont need the big truck but if you tow a trailer etc and need that much power then the tesla is just silly and not enough.

Im sp?ending money for 5960x too and R5E. My CPU will be not first days after NDA, but maybe 1 month later. Very expensive platfrom and need some time for the cash . But Im looking forward for multithreads benchmarks. I cant imagine how crazy it will be with 16 threads. Uffff.

i cant wait for all them points per watt for WCG!!!

[Vicey]

except when you actually use all of that, 99% of the time i owned my 4930k it was at 100% usage. more cores are always usefull for some people. so what your saying contradicts how I feel, this cpu with its processingpower/watt is the best its ever been and i couldnt be happier.[/B]

uhhh....

there really isn't much real world difference between 2600k and Haswell, we don't upgrade for performance boost anymore we upgrade cuz we want to.

I think you contradict yourself all on your own without me haha

[Xel_NaGa]

Prepare your wallets boys...
AND this is only on ENG samples/ Beta boards/ beta bios


4.5 @ 1.29vcore

4.3 @ 1.25vcore

managerman:

Was only able to test the 5960x so far, but it took forever trying to dial in the settings on the motherboard I am using. Obviously still beta bios and beta motherboard drivers...It will be good when someone a lot smarter than me comes out with an X99, Haswell-E Overclocking guide.

1.) I was able to hit 4.3Ghz (stock 3.0Ghz) ...not bad considering it was not as easy as just raising the multiplier and core voltage....lots of weirdness in power settings that I had to play around with to finally get "stable" at 4.3Ghz

2.) Had issues with having one or both Speedstep and C States being disabled..caused a crazy "Phantom" load on the CPU when no process was actually causing the load...I ended up keeping them enabled and setting windows to "performance" in the power options.

3.) HOT HOT HOT!! My Corsair H100i was no match for the heat that the 8 cores was producing. I was only at 1.25 volts on the vcore and my temps, while running small FTT in Prime 95, were easily in the 90's on some cores. Adding anymore voltaage would shoot temps to over 100C and shutdown would occur. I'm sure with more robust cooling higher voltage and speeds can be achieved.

4.) Adding voltage and speed to the ring bus adds more heat! I was however able to get the ring bus up to 3.5ghz at 1.17v...

5.) The 16GB of DDR4-2666 would only run at 2133, anything higher and the machine was not stable. I assume better MB bios will help this issue...

6.) Lots of temp variation between the 8 cores. Almost 15C observed in some cases....

7.) Disclaimer: This was only a quick test. Take the information with a grain of salt......not to the bank....wink.gif

Overall I am pretty excited about the 5960x....When BIOS' mature and the experts come out with more and better overclocking guides for Haswell-E...it should be pretty interesting....

Next up 5820k...

-M

Sauce

[FlanK3r]

whats board? Nice to see 16 threads in desktop now

[lutjens]

I find it hard to get excited about an 8-core chip that we should have had an earlier version of three years ago. Also, waiting 4.5 years to go from the introduction of the 6-core i7-980x to the introduction of the i7-5960X is ridiculous IMO. If the top Xeons were unlocked to provide a truly high-end option, it wouldn't matter, as at least a top-tier product would be available (albeit at a high price). But since all top-tier DP Xeons (the only ones substantially better than the i7s) are locked, we do without a high-end, tweakable option.

I've used an 8-core E5-2687W on my RIVE...and maxed it out at 100% easily...so this one won't be much different, except for finally having unlocked multipliers (approx 900MHz greater clock speeds) and better IPC. Nice, but not awe-inspiring...

I'll only be truly excited if the top Xeons end up unlocked as has been rumored. The lack of any subsequent confirmation of this is making it look less and less likely, though (as is the refusal of those who do know for sure to provide any information on the subject)...