Where is AMD going these days ?

[Maxforces]

pclab.pl are not the best web...They dont know nothing about throtling of FX-9590 and what doing against it . There was 9590 review, but really not good. Not many reviewers knwo, with 9590 you must cooling VRM area as bonus for non throtling. But this is different story. I like examples hardware.fr. Or hardwarecanucks. Anandtech is "sh1t" few last years. Still good looks Computerbase, overclocked, TomsHW is not bad...ANd of course PCtuning from czech (most of reviewers are overclockers - OBR, me, Froxic)

for your information clock was steady.
I know why you do not like their review witch is obvious
g.Foyle (Mateusz Brzostek) he has set all settings, he is part of pclab .
I laughed from the bold sentence.

[BeepBeep2]

I may get some flack for this, but I'm a longtime AMD user too... I've been messing with/tweaking computers for over 30 yrs!
While it's true that AMD hasn't offered anything interesting in the "high performance" category since the 1090T, I'm still not ready to buy into the AMD is dead rhetoric that we've heard for I can't remember how long!

I'm not a hardcore gamer, so in that sense I may be in the minority. The one thing I do with my rig that requires performance is encoding and this OC'd 9370 does really well in that area even when compared to Intel systems that cost substantially more... YES, when it's running flat out, it does use excess power but under normal circumstances (using power saving features), it's not really a hog at all!

For everyday tasks (Surfing/E-mail/Text Editing) the few nanoseconds lost compared to higher priced systems is a non-factor.

I know this is XS, and I'd love to see AMD pull a rabbit out of their hat that could compete in benchmarks.
In all honesty though they're still competitive for modern uses, and generally they still offer a good "bang for the buck".

I have 3 rigs that are running AMD APU's, 2 HTPC's and a NAS, plus an FX rig for performance...
I have no complaints about any of these machines!!!

Intel stumbled into an awesome uArch with C2D by working on low powered mobile chips.
Hopefully AMD can do the same thing with their APU's...

AMD is dead.
I don't know, really. Steamroller wasn't what I thought it was going to be, some Desktop APU x86 performance actually got...slower on flagship parts than last year's flagship, so much for 20% boost.

Even on the GPU side, I see AMD slipping back vs NVIDIA, I hope they have something to match Maxwell because if not, AMD is in for a rough ride. Q4 earnings looked terrible for CPU side with GPU growing immensely and still just barely saving the day.

Considering Intel is on 14nm in 6-8 months, I worry...

[vvulture]

Gonna have my 2cents worth..

I too was an avid AMD fan for nearly 20yrs until 2 months ago when i ditched my 8350 for a 4770k..

- For everyday use, i agree there is no noticeable difference...

- As far as gaming is concerned tho, there is a HUGE difference !! My 8350 simply could not push my CF 7970's to their full potential.. Getting an average of 30 - 40% more FPS than before.
I know it's not all about FPS, but the more you can squeeze out of your GPU(s), the longer they will serve your purpose.

[FlanK3r]

Beep: GPU part is not problem, the performance is very close, higher power consumption of hawai is die and computing units...This is the reason. Nvidia has no compute GPU (only Titan or older GTX480/580). Hawai is something as GTX480/580...Not only pure gaming vard as GTX680/780.

CPU part is harder...Im curious about 14nm Boradwell, how much change it power consumption in desktop, how OC ability etc...28nm at AMD with Excavator could be back as HKMG...

Maxforces : I dont believe much PClab...This guy has some OC experience, but I dont beleive deep knowledge of tweaking AMD CPUs (because are not so popular as Intel side in this days). I spent months in Phenom II tweaking and FX tweaking. Otherwise at Intel side maybe only 5-10% all CPU time. But I did some OC quides for Intel too . But back to the topic.

There is some little chance for AMD...some big core at 28nm in 2015 with more than 8 threads. Without this will be AMD enthusiast segment dead (unfortunatelly) and AMD will be good in lowend and lower middle segment with APUs.

[Maxforces]

Maxforces : I dont believe much PClab...This guy has some OC experience, but I dont beleive deep knowledge of tweaking AMD CPUs (because are not so popular as Intel side in this days). I spent months in Phenom II tweaking and FX tweaking. Otherwise at Intel side maybe only 5-10% all CPU time. But I did some OC quides for Intel too . But back to the topic.

seriously??Really some OC experience.
You dont have beleive only check.
http://hwbot.org/submission/2214191_...8150_7926_mhz/
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2047452

[BeepBeep2]

Beep: GPU part is not problem, the performance is very close, higher power consumption of hawai is die and computing units...This is the reason. Nvidia has no compute GPU (only Titan or older GTX480/580). Hawai is something as GTX480/580...Not only pure gaming vard as GTX680/780.

CPU part is harder...Im curious about 14nm Boradwell, how much change it power consumption in desktop, how OC ability etc...28nm at AMD with Excavator could be back as HKMG...

Yes, but look at the performance of the 750 Ti. I hope AMD has something much better than Hawaii soon.
CPU wise, AMD is back to the slaughtering that took place with C2Q vs A64 X2...and the company has much less chance of coming back.
Server roadmap completely trash, meanwhile Intel releasing 15C/30T CPUs...

First, AMD says "We can compete in mobile space", but enters market too little too late on x86 side and furthermore failed to create a viable solution...Bay Trail to save the day for x86 while AMD simply answers "Uhh, ARM is more efficient."

I feel a bit worried about AMD's future especially considering they are focusing on low-margin sales...

[Miwo]

Speaking of strictly gaming, Intel is just going to make the situtation worse in May with release of the Pentium 20th Anniversary Edition Haswell. Going by the name, I would speculate its going to be a Dual-Core Unlocked 'K' of the Haswell G3220 Processor w/3M cache able to run on Z87/Z97 boards. If that turns out to be true,... get ready for the '$100 Intel vs $350 FX-9590 Gaming Articles' . With the exception of a few highly multithreaded games (BF4), most games are just console ports that will play just fine on a Haswell dual-core setup (especially at high resolution). Things are not going to look good for AMD in that comparison. Good gaming marketing for Intel IMO, since price advantage has really been only one of the few things AMD Gamers can cling on to right now.

OCing for cheap has been the #1 reason why I have supported AMD for the past decade. I know this is XtremeSystems and not CheapAssSystems, but for me I find the most joy in pushing bang/buck systems. My wallet is happier with that too. So for me, I'm ready to 'upgrade' my FX-6300 gaming setup to the 20th Anniversary edition Pentium dualcore, as stupid as that may sound. Z97 + Anniversary Pentium , then upgrade path to Broadwell sounds fun

[vario]

Speaking of strictly gaming, Intel is just going to make the situtation worse in May with release of the Pentium 20th Anniversary Edition Haswell. Going by the name, I would speculate its going to be a Dual-Core Unlocked 'K' of the Haswell G3220 Processor w/3M cache able to run on Z87/Z97 boards. If that turns out to be true,... get ready for the '$100 Intel vs $350 FX-9590 Gaming Articles' . With the exception of a few highly multithreaded games (BF4), most games are just console ports that will play just fine on a Haswell dual-core setup (especially at high resolution). Things are not going to look good for AMD in that comparison. Good gaming marketing for Intel IMO, since price advantage has really been only one of the few things AMD Gamers can cling on to right now.

OCing for cheap has been the #1 reason why I have supported AMD for the past decade. I know this is XtremeSystems and not CheapAssSystems, but for me I find the most joy in pushing bang/buck systems. My wallet is happier with that too. So for me, I'm ready to 'upgrade' my FX-6300 gaming setup to the 20th Anniversary edition Pentium dualcore, as stupid as that may sound. Z97 + Anniversary Pentium , then upgrade path to Broadwell sounds fun

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...0_5.html#sect0

As you see, its muddy, newer games tend to behave better even on "crappy" amd 4 module`s than on 2 core core i3, and pentium has less cache if i remember correctly and no HT.
Buying NOW a 2 core intel for gaming isnt that smart of an idea.Really 4 core is where its at now.

[Zloyd]

Wonder if there is a large market for a unlocked dual core. It would make a great budget gaming chip @ 100$

[Kobaltrock]

Ugh, just read AMD's financial report...

The CPU division is down another 12%.
GPU is doing better--hell, it is carrying AMD now.

Their next move is to have ARM based server chips, and low powered x86 "Mullins" for tablets.
AMD has no plans for x86 CPUs in the mid to high end for 2014 (and I bet 2015/16)

It seems to me that AMD just doesn't think that they would sell mid to high end desktop CPUs even if they were faster than what Intel has.
They seem to forget that when AMD did make CPUs faster than what Intel had, they DID sell more units, until, Intel struck back, and we haven't heard a peep from AMD since then.

I just don't like the direction AMD is heading. Even with the new agreement with Samsung to use their node process, that will take at least 1 year for them to produce anything of value, they aren't putting enough $$$ on the R&D side of the high end CPU / server side to make anything worthwhile for people who want something high-end once again.

[ilkkahy]

Competing years and years obsessively with intel resulted in huge amount of debt and near bankruptcy of the company so that is why they had to make change to strategies. If they had continued with old strategy there might not be amd anymore. The future is in hsa.

[Yeroon]

If i read the financial report at Anand properly, that includes a (the final?) 200M payment to GF from its penalty.
Kobaltrock, I think you're missing that fact that AMD was plagued with poor supply chain/management in areas/times where/when they had the upper hand (Llano?). This seems to be corrected.
I don't think AMD needs to catch up in performance, even on the high end, just get the power consumption down to get rid of the huge perf/watt bias towards intel there is now. Thats probably the biggest problem to the performance, not only is it slower, it uses more power at the same time. Its hard to justify that nowadays in the sff, typical user builds. The Cat cores lacking a turbo doesn't help their poor ST performance either.
Anyone know what the die size difference is between the Cat cores and the SR cores? How many Cat cores could you stick on the same die size as a 3 module SR?

[vario]

If i read the financial report at Anand properly, that includes a (the final?) 200M payment to GF from its penalty.
Kobaltrock, I think you're missing that fact that AMD was plagued with poor supply chain/management in areas/times where/when they had the upper hand (Llano?). This seems to be corrected.
I don't think AMD needs to catch up in performance, even on the high end, just get the power consumption down to get rid of the huge perf/watt bias towards intel there is now. Thats probably the biggest problem to the performance, not only is it slower, it uses more power at the same time. Its hard to justify that nowadays in the sff, typical user builds. The Cat cores lacking a turbo doesn't help their poor ST performance either.
Anyone know what the die size difference is between the Cat cores and the SR cores? How many Cat cores could you stick on the same die size as a 3 module SR?

I think you're confused ,cat cores as you describe them, which is kabini based on jaguar now are very low power (from tablet and up) socs that do very well both performance and power wise with intel.They're pretty much better in almost everything, what is power hungry and inefficient are the bulldozer cores, piledriver and steamroller now.
As for size, all i can say that theyre tiny.
2 module kaveri with a gpu has a 247mm2 die size it has 512 GCN shaders
4 core kabini with a gpu AND FCH is 107mm2 it has 128 GCN shaders

Someone with brain could probably extrapolate rough sizes of cores

[Yeroon]

Yes, there is a larger perf/watt bias when talking about the larger cores. However the Cat cores are also facing this against the bay trail atoms. Just check out Anands 5350 review with Intel's C2750 8c/20w Atom. Its performance/watt, and even straight up performance in some situations, is impressive. Its price tag puts it in a different category compared to AMD's apu's (large and small).
My somewhat assumption-ed math gives me around 4 Jag cores to 1 SR module in terms of die size, or 8 Jag / SR module when comparing TDP's. A gcn core based off of kaveri being 47% gpu gives about 15mm^2 per CU.

[NEOAethyr]

Competing years and years obsessively with intel resulted in huge amount of debt and near bankruptcy of the company so that is why they had to make change to strategies. If they had continued with old strategy there might not be amd anymore. The future is in hsa.

I don't really agree.
Amd's stock doubled after people started buying up the 1st batches of athlon's on the slot a platform.

People started talking bailouts after the 2nd gen of fx chips came out.

Tiny mobos and low wattage cpu's/apu's are great for tv boxes, but not anything else.
However, arm is reaching right into this market, and it's gonna stay, smart tv's all use arm, even the breakout box ver's to convert a normal tv to a smart tv use arm.

...
If you're gonna build a rig, you're gonna build the best you can get your hands on, at an affordable price.
That's what amd used to offer.

If you buy a pre-built, you're gonna get intel regardless.
The only market for them is enthusiasts.
And they just blew us off :\.

[vario]

Yes, there is a larger perf/watt bias when talking about the larger cores. However the Cat cores are also facing this against the bay trail atoms. Just check out Anands 5350 review with Intel's C2750 8c/20w Atom. Its performance/watt, and even straight up performance in some situations, is impressive. Its price tag puts it in a different category compared to AMD's apu's (large and small).
My somewhat assumption-ed math gives me around 4 Jag cores to 1 SR module in terms of die size, or 8 Jag / SR module when comparing TDP's. A gcn core based off of kaveri being 47% gpu gives about 15mm^2 per CU.

C2750 is an 8 core 171$ chip and its avoton not bay trail.
Bay trail is the Celeron J1800/1900 which are yes lower power but they are VERY RARELY comparable performance wise ,they are around 2x as slow GPU wise, they dont have some functionality like AES in hardware,they are between comparable up to more than two times slower cpu wise and are built on lower node process.Theres no comparison to the bulldozer vs sandybridge/ivy/haswell cores.

[DefStar]

AMD's more-cores equals more-performance made a-lot of sense theoretically, it just didn't work out that way in real-world applications. AMD will learn not to 'put all their eggs in one basket' from this experience and hopefully regain their competitive edge. If AMD would have had billions of $ saved up to throw at their R&D department i'm sure we would be seeing a much more competitive AMD. Unfortunately, Intel's questionable market strategy paid off and they are a good jump-hop-and a-skip ahead of AMD. Intel dominates the market, AMD's company moral is most-likely pretty low given the constant lay-offs and restructering of the company...this effects productivity, creativity, and efficiency as constant fear grips the company...not being able to take creative chances due to diminished financial resources. The talent pool becomes much smaller as promising employees jump ship or become wooed by companies able to pay substantially more, and give company stock that is worth something.
I'm guessing AMD will refuse to give up and eventually become competitive in the x86 market again...but i'm in no way an investor or business major...just a Computer Scientist.

[Yeroon]

AMD's more-cores equals more-performance made a-lot of sense theoretically, it just didn't work out that way in real-world applications. AMD will learn not to 'put all their eggs in one basket' from this experience and hopefully regain their competitive edge. If AMD would have had billions of $ saved up to throw at their R&D department i'm sure we would be seeing a much more competitive AMD. Unfortunately, Intel's questionable market strategy paid off and they are a good jump-hop-and a-skip ahead of AMD. Intel dominates the market, AMD's company moral is most-likely pretty low given the constant lay-offs and restructering of the company...this effects productivity, creativity, and efficiency as constant fear grips the company...not being able to take creative chances due to diminished financial resources. The talent pool becomes much smaller as promising employees jump ship or become wooed by companies able to pay substantially more, and give company stock that is worth something.
I'm guessing AMD will refuse to give up and eventually become competitive in the x86 market again...but i'm in no way an investor or business major...just a Computer Scientist.

They made some pretty big "talent pool" improvements somewhat recently. It also seems that they have very much been creative with the change in leadership, the apu's, HSA, HUMA, Mantle, semi-custom chips, and realizing the market is a whole lot bigger than just the little box that is traditional x86. The ARM server chip is coming out soon I believe as well.

[haylui]

AMD's more-cores equals more-performance made a-lot of sense theoretically, it just didn't work out that way in real-world applications. AMD will learn not to 'put all their eggs in one basket' from this experience and hopefully regain their competitive edge. If AMD would have had billions of $ saved up to throw at their R&D department i'm sure we would be seeing a much more competitive AMD. Unfortunately, Intel's questionable market strategy paid off and they are a good jump-hop-and a-skip ahead of AMD. Intel dominates the market, AMD's company moral is most-likely pretty low given the constant lay-offs and restructering of the company...this effects productivity, creativity, and efficiency as constant fear grips the company...not being able to take creative chances due to diminished financial resources. The talent pool becomes much smaller as promising employees jump ship or become wooed by companies able to pay substantially more, and give company stock that is worth something.
I'm guessing AMD will refuse to give up and eventually become competitive in the x86 market again...but i'm in no way an investor or business major...just a Computer Scientist.

In business perspective, AMD doesn't need to cling on x86 architecture solely. There is much more to explore outside x86. Anyway x86 is just one of the micro-architecture created by a company that produces microprocessor, nothing spectacular.

[vario]

Yes, there is a larger perf/watt bias when talking about the larger cores. However the Cat cores are also facing this against the bay trail atoms. Just check out Anands 5350 review with Intel's C2750 8c/20w Atom. Its performance/watt, and even straight up performance in some situations, is impressive. Its price tag puts it in a different category compared to AMD's apu's (large and small).
My somewhat assumption-ed math gives me around 4 Jag cores to 1 SR module in terms of die size, or 8 Jag / SR module when comparing TDP's. A gcn core based off of kaveri being 47% gpu gives about 15mm^2 per CU.

Thought would share some official info:


16 core jaguar could be interesting chip for some servers, and cheap to make.But noooo, theyre gonna go arm with no x86 and a mass of competitors.Also jaguar cores are ready for around a year and arm still isnt.

[Kobaltrock]

So, they have a new plan... a new x86 core, and ARM.
Looks like the ARM stuff will be out first, and then the new x86 core, but, it looks like late 2017 for that, unless they have been working on it, but, I highly doubt that, they just don't have enough people for that.

I sure hope they don't make another bulldozer mistake, heck, I just hope they can survive that long without a new CPU design.

[FlanK3r]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7989/a...6-socs-in-2015
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7991/a...64bit-x86-core

Skybridge project or codename for new 20nm CPU

[cab]

Maybe the desktop is dying. I can hook up a keyboard to my Nexus 7 and do all my work just as well as on my desktop... Snapdragon quad core and a paper thin battery that lasts 9 hours. I even tried it for GPS navigation in my car, but it poops out without an internet connection.

Anyway, the A8 & A10 are excellent value. My A8 quad laptop overall outperforms Intel at the same price.

[Dnomi]

There is some little chance for AMD...some big core at 28nm in 2015 with more than 8 threads. Without this will be AMD enthusiast segment dead (unfortunatelly) and AMD will be good in lowend and lower middle segment with APUs.

"All they need to do is": Release a desktop 16 core Jaguar@+3ghz, with dual channel DDR5, and PCI-Express 3.0 x16. That's High end, also next year... :-) Right now a 8 core Jaguar@+3ghz would do as middle/high end, it's a real strong core Athlon x4 5350 have.. ATM mine is running great with a HD7950, and is replacing my FX-8320. Yes its slower, but it's not bad:-)

So.. Jaguar has a great future, but 4 cores, single channel memory, and 2.05ghz is just not enough... I guess they cant make it run much faster than 2ghz ATM.

[haylui]

"All they need to do is": Release a desktop 16 core Jaguar@+3ghz, with dual channel DDR5, and PCI-Express 3.0 x16. That's High end, also next year... :-) Right now a 8 core Jaguar@+3ghz would do as middle/high end, it's a real strong core Athlon x4 5350 have.. ATM mine is running great with a HD7950, and is replacing my FX-8320. Yes its slower, but it's not bad:-)

So.. Jaguar has a great future, but 4 cores, single channel memory, and 2.05ghz is just not enough... I guess they cant make it run much faster than 2ghz ATM.

looks like automated design paid off in the end vs manually tweaked FX cores