AMD is dead.
I don't know, really. Steamroller wasn't what I thought it was going to be, some Desktop APU x86 performance actually got...slower on flagship parts than last year's flagship, so much for 20% boost.
Even on the GPU side, I see AMD slipping back vs NVIDIA, I hope they have something to match Maxwell because if not, AMD is in for a rough ride. Q4 earnings looked terrible for CPU side with GPU growing immensely and still just barely saving the day.
Considering Intel is on 14nm in 6-8 months, I worry...
Last edited by BeepBeep2; 03-30-2014 at 09:12 AM.
Smile
Gonna have my 2cents worth..
I too was an avid AMD fan for nearly 20yrs until 2 months ago when i ditched my 8350 for a 4770k..
- For everyday use, i agree there is no noticeable difference...
- As far as gaming is concerned tho, there is a HUGE difference !! My 8350 simply could not push my CF 7970's to their full potential.. Getting an average of 30 - 40% more FPS than before.
I know it's not all about FPS, but the more you can squeeze out of your GPU(s), the longer they will serve your purpose.
AMD FX-8350 Stock
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Beep: GPU part is not problem, the performance is very close, higher power consumption of hawai is die and computing units...This is the reason. Nvidia has no compute GPU (only Titan or older GTX480/580). Hawai is something as GTX480/580...Not only pure gaming vard as GTX680/780.
CPU part is harder...Im curious about 14nm Boradwell, how much change it power consumption in desktop, how OC ability etc...28nm at AMD with Excavator could be back as HKMG...
Maxforces : I dont believe much PClab...This guy has some OC experience, but I dont beleive deep knowledge of tweaking AMD CPUs (because are not so popular as Intel side in this days). I spent months in Phenom II tweaking and FX tweaking. Otherwise at Intel side maybe only 5-10% all CPU time. But I did some OC quides for Intel too . But back to the topic.
There is some little chance for AMD...some big core at 28nm in 2015 with more than 8 threads. Without this will be AMD enthusiast segment dead (unfortunatelly) and AMD will be good in lowend and lower middle segment with APUs.
ROG Power PCs - Intel and AMD
CPUs:i9-7900X, i9-9900K, i7-6950X, i7-5960X, i7-8086K, i7-8700K, 4x i7-7700K, i3-7350K, 2x i7-6700K, i5-6600K, R7-2700X, 4x R5 2600X, R5 2400G, R3 1200, R7-1800X, R7-1700X, 3x AMD FX-9590, 1x AMD FX-9370, 4x AMD FX-8350,1x AMD FX-8320,1x AMD FX-8300, 2x AMD FX-6300,2x AMD FX-4300, 3x AMD FX-8150, 2x AMD FX-8120 125 and 95W, AMD X2 555 BE, AMD x4 965 BE C2 and C3, AMD X4 970 BE, AMD x4 975 BE, AMD x4 980 BE, AMD X6 1090T BE, AMD X6 1100T BE, A10-7870K, Athlon 845, Athlon 860K,AMD A10-7850K, AMD A10-6800K, A8-6600K, 2x AMD A10-5800K, AMD A10-5600K, AMD A8-3850, AMD A8-3870K, 2x AMD A64 3000+, AMD 64+ X2 4600+ EE, Intel i7-980X, Intel i7-2600K, Intel i7-3770K,2x i7-4770K, Intel i7-3930KAMD Cinebench R10 challenge AMD Cinebench R15 thread Intel Cinebench R15 thread
seriously??Really some OC experience.
You dont have beleive only check.
http://hwbot.org/submission/2214191_...8150_7926_mhz/
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2047452
Yes, but look at the performance of the 750 Ti. I hope AMD has something much better than Hawaii soon.
CPU wise, AMD is back to the slaughtering that took place with C2Q vs A64 X2...and the company has much less chance of coming back.
Server roadmap completely trash, meanwhile Intel releasing 15C/30T CPUs...
First, AMD says "We can compete in mobile space", but enters market too little too late on x86 side and furthermore failed to create a viable solution...Bay Trail to save the day for x86 while AMD simply answers "Uhh, ARM is more efficient."
I feel a bit worried about AMD's future especially considering they are focusing on low-margin sales...
Smile
Speaking of strictly gaming, Intel is just going to make the situtation worse in May with release of the Pentium 20th Anniversary Edition Haswell. Going by the name, I would speculate its going to be a Dual-Core Unlocked 'K' of the Haswell G3220 Processor w/3M cache able to run on Z87/Z97 boards. If that turns out to be true,... get ready for the '$100 Intel vs $350 FX-9590 Gaming Articles' . With the exception of a few highly multithreaded games (BF4), most games are just console ports that will play just fine on a Haswell dual-core setup (especially at high resolution). Things are not going to look good for AMD in that comparison. Good gaming marketing for Intel IMO, since price advantage has really been only one of the few things AMD Gamers can cling on to right now.
OCing for cheap has been the #1 reason why I have supported AMD for the past decade. I know this is XtremeSystems and not CheapAssSystems, but for me I find the most joy in pushing bang/buck systems. My wallet is happier with that too. So for me, I'm ready to 'upgrade' my FX-6300 gaming setup to the 20th Anniversary edition Pentium dualcore, as stupid as that may sound. Z97 + Anniversary Pentium , then upgrade path to Broadwell sounds fun
Last edited by Miwo; 04-01-2014 at 09:04 AM.
'Gaming' AMD FX-6300 @ 4.5GHz | Asus M5A97 | 16GB DDR3 2133MHz | GTX760 2GB + Antec Kuhler620 mod | Crucial m4 64GB + WD Blue 2x1TB Str
'HTPC' AMD A8-3820 @ 3.5GHz | Biostar TA75A+ | 4GB DDR3 | Momentus XT 500GB | Radeon 7950 3GB
'Twitch' AMD 720BE @ 3.5GHz | Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2P | 4GB DDR3 | Avermedia Game Broadcaster
Desktop Audio: Optical Out > Matrix mini DAC > Virtue Audio ONE.2 > Tannoy Reveal Monitors + Energy Encore 8 Sub
HTPC: Optoma HD131XE Projector + Yamaha RX-V463 + 3.2 Speaker Setup
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...0_5.html#sect0
As you see, its muddy, newer games tend to behave better even on "crappy" amd 4 module`s than on 2 core core i3, and pentium has less cache if i remember correctly and no HT.
Buying NOW a 2 core intel for gaming isnt that smart of an idea.Really 4 core is where its at now.
Intel 5960X@4.2Ghz[Prime stable]@4.5 [XTU stable] 1.24v NB@3.6ghz Asrock X99 Extreme 3 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance@3200 16-17-17
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Wonder if there is a large market for a unlocked dual core. It would make a great budget gaming chip @ 100$
Ugh, just read AMD's financial report...
The CPU division is down another 12%.
GPU is doing better--hell, it is carrying AMD now.
Their next move is to have ARM based server chips, and low powered x86 "Mullins" for tablets.
AMD has no plans for x86 CPUs in the mid to high end for 2014 (and I bet 2015/16)
It seems to me that AMD just doesn't think that they would sell mid to high end desktop CPUs even if they were faster than what Intel has.
They seem to forget that when AMD did make CPUs faster than what Intel had, they DID sell more units, until, Intel struck back, and we haven't heard a peep from AMD since then.
I just don't like the direction AMD is heading. Even with the new agreement with Samsung to use their node process, that will take at least 1 year for them to produce anything of value, they aren't putting enough $$$ on the R&D side of the high end CPU / server side to make anything worthwhile for people who want something high-end once again.
Competing years and years obsessively with intel resulted in huge amount of debt and near bankruptcy of the company so that is why they had to make change to strategies. If they had continued with old strategy there might not be amd anymore. The future is in hsa.
"I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood."
If i read the financial report at Anand properly, that includes a (the final?) 200M payment to GF from its penalty.
Kobaltrock, I think you're missing that fact that AMD was plagued with poor supply chain/management in areas/times where/when they had the upper hand (Llano?). This seems to be corrected.
I don't think AMD needs to catch up in performance, even on the high end, just get the power consumption down to get rid of the huge perf/watt bias towards intel there is now. Thats probably the biggest problem to the performance, not only is it slower, it uses more power at the same time. Its hard to justify that nowadays in the sff, typical user builds. The Cat cores lacking a turbo doesn't help their poor ST performance either.
Anyone know what the die size difference is between the Cat cores and the SR cores? How many Cat cores could you stick on the same die size as a 3 module SR?
Richland 6790K @ 4.713 Ghz / 2208 NB / 1123 gpu / 2304 Ram [96 Bclk]
F2A85-M Pro, Mushkin Black 2133, iGPU (8760D)
9.7L case (excluding 230mm fan) or 11.6L w/2nd rad fan
I think you're confused ,cat cores as you describe them, which is kabini based on jaguar now are very low power (from tablet and up) socs that do very well both performance and power wise with intel.They're pretty much better in almost everything, what is power hungry and inefficient are the bulldozer cores, piledriver and steamroller now.
As for size, all i can say that theyre tiny.
2 module kaveri with a gpu has a 247mm2 die size it has 512 GCN shaders
4 core kabini with a gpu AND FCH is 107mm2 it has 128 GCN shaders
Someone with brain could probably extrapolate rough sizes of cores
Intel 5960X@4.2Ghz[Prime stable]@4.5 [XTU stable] 1.24v NB@3.6ghz Asrock X99 Extreme 3 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance@3200 16-17-17
Sapphire nitro+ VEGA 56 Samsung SSD 850 256GB Crucial MX100 512GB HDD:WD10TB WD:8TB Seagate8TB
Yes, there is a larger perf/watt bias when talking about the larger cores. However the Cat cores are also facing this against the bay trail atoms. Just check out Anands 5350 review with Intel's C2750 8c/20w Atom. Its performance/watt, and even straight up performance in some situations, is impressive. Its price tag puts it in a different category compared to AMD's apu's (large and small).
My somewhat assumption-ed math gives me around 4 Jag cores to 1 SR module in terms of die size, or 8 Jag / SR module when comparing TDP's. A gcn core based off of kaveri being 47% gpu gives about 15mm^2 per CU.
Richland 6790K @ 4.713 Ghz / 2208 NB / 1123 gpu / 2304 Ram [96 Bclk]
F2A85-M Pro, Mushkin Black 2133, iGPU (8760D)
9.7L case (excluding 230mm fan) or 11.6L w/2nd rad fan
I don't really agree.
Amd's stock doubled after people started buying up the 1st batches of athlon's on the slot a platform.
People started talking bailouts after the 2nd gen of fx chips came out.
Tiny mobos and low wattage cpu's/apu's are great for tv boxes, but not anything else.
However, arm is reaching right into this market, and it's gonna stay, smart tv's all use arm, even the breakout box ver's to convert a normal tv to a smart tv use arm.
...
If you're gonna build a rig, you're gonna build the best you can get your hands on, at an affordable price.
That's what amd used to offer.
If you buy a pre-built, you're gonna get intel regardless.
The only market for them is enthusiasts.
And they just blew us off :\.
Last edited by NEOAethyr; 04-18-2014 at 09:40 PM. Reason: I think I said to much, edited out that stuff
C2750 is an 8 core 171$ chip and its avoton not bay trail.
Bay trail is the Celeron J1800/1900 which are yes lower power but they are VERY RARELY comparable performance wise ,they are around 2x as slow GPU wise, they dont have some functionality like AES in hardware,they are between comparable up to more than two times slower cpu wise and are built on lower node process.Theres no comparison to the bulldozer vs sandybridge/ivy/haswell cores.
Last edited by vario; 04-20-2014 at 01:58 AM.
Intel 5960X@4.2Ghz[Prime stable]@4.5 [XTU stable] 1.24v NB@3.6ghz Asrock X99 Extreme 3 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance@3200 16-17-17
Sapphire nitro+ VEGA 56 Samsung SSD 850 256GB Crucial MX100 512GB HDD:WD10TB WD:8TB Seagate8TB
AMD's more-cores equals more-performance made a-lot of sense theoretically, it just didn't work out that way in real-world applications. AMD will learn not to 'put all their eggs in one basket' from this experience and hopefully regain their competitive edge. If AMD would have had billions of $ saved up to throw at their R&D department i'm sure we would be seeing a much more competitive AMD. Unfortunately, Intel's questionable market strategy paid off and they are a good jump-hop-and a-skip ahead of AMD. Intel dominates the market, AMD's company moral is most-likely pretty low given the constant lay-offs and restructering of the company...this effects productivity, creativity, and efficiency as constant fear grips the company...not being able to take creative chances due to diminished financial resources. The talent pool becomes much smaller as promising employees jump ship or become wooed by companies able to pay substantially more, and give company stock that is worth something.
I'm guessing AMD will refuse to give up and eventually become competitive in the x86 market again...but i'm in no way an investor or business major...just a Computer Scientist.
Custom case laser cut from a 3/16" thick sheet of brushed Aluminum 8"x80" & cold formed into a box then anodized black with 1/2" Poly-carbonate side panels..[.fully modular, all aluminum mounting brackets, HD bays, and mobo tray are removable...down to the bare box
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Does it ever shock anyone else when your hear someone use Darwin's "survival of the fittest" to justify genocide?
They made some pretty big "talent pool" improvements somewhat recently. It also seems that they have very much been creative with the change in leadership, the apu's, HSA, HUMA, Mantle, semi-custom chips, and realizing the market is a whole lot bigger than just the little box that is traditional x86. The ARM server chip is coming out soon I believe as well.
Richland 6790K @ 4.713 Ghz / 2208 NB / 1123 gpu / 2304 Ram [96 Bclk]
F2A85-M Pro, Mushkin Black 2133, iGPU (8760D)
9.7L case (excluding 230mm fan) or 11.6L w/2nd rad fan
Main Rig:
Processor & Motherboard:AMD Ryzen5 1400 ' Gigabyte B450M-DS3H
Random Access Memory Module:Adata XPG DDR4 3000 MHz 2x8GB
Graphic Card:XFX RX 580 4GB
Power Supply Unit:FSP AURUM 92+ Series PT-650M
Storage Unit:Crucial MX 500 240GB SATA III SSD
Processor Heatsink Fan:AMD Wraith Spire RGB
Chasis:Thermaltake Level 10GTS Black
Last edited by vario; 04-24-2014 at 04:32 AM.
Intel 5960X@4.2Ghz[Prime stable]@4.5 [XTU stable] 1.24v NB@3.6ghz Asrock X99 Extreme 3 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance@3200 16-17-17
Sapphire nitro+ VEGA 56 Samsung SSD 850 256GB Crucial MX100 512GB HDD:WD10TB WD:8TB Seagate8TB
So, they have a new plan... a new x86 core, and ARM.
Looks like the ARM stuff will be out first, and then the new x86 core, but, it looks like late 2017 for that, unless they have been working on it, but, I highly doubt that, they just don't have enough people for that.
I sure hope they don't make another bulldozer mistake, heck, I just hope they can survive that long without a new CPU design.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7989/a...6-socs-in-2015
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7991/a...64bit-x86-core
Skybridge project or codename for new 20nm CPU
ROG Power PCs - Intel and AMD
CPUs:i9-7900X, i9-9900K, i7-6950X, i7-5960X, i7-8086K, i7-8700K, 4x i7-7700K, i3-7350K, 2x i7-6700K, i5-6600K, R7-2700X, 4x R5 2600X, R5 2400G, R3 1200, R7-1800X, R7-1700X, 3x AMD FX-9590, 1x AMD FX-9370, 4x AMD FX-8350,1x AMD FX-8320,1x AMD FX-8300, 2x AMD FX-6300,2x AMD FX-4300, 3x AMD FX-8150, 2x AMD FX-8120 125 and 95W, AMD X2 555 BE, AMD x4 965 BE C2 and C3, AMD X4 970 BE, AMD x4 975 BE, AMD x4 980 BE, AMD X6 1090T BE, AMD X6 1100T BE, A10-7870K, Athlon 845, Athlon 860K,AMD A10-7850K, AMD A10-6800K, A8-6600K, 2x AMD A10-5800K, AMD A10-5600K, AMD A8-3850, AMD A8-3870K, 2x AMD A64 3000+, AMD 64+ X2 4600+ EE, Intel i7-980X, Intel i7-2600K, Intel i7-3770K,2x i7-4770K, Intel i7-3930KAMD Cinebench R10 challenge AMD Cinebench R15 thread Intel Cinebench R15 thread
Maybe the desktop is dying. I can hook up a keyboard to my Nexus 7 and do all my work just as well as on my desktop... Snapdragon quad core and a paper thin battery that lasts 9 hours. I even tried it for GPS navigation in my car, but it poops out without an internet connection.
Anyway, the A8 & A10 are excellent value. My A8 quad laptop overall outperforms Intel at the same price.
"All they need to do is": Release a desktop 16 core Jaguar@+3ghz, with dual channel DDR5, and PCI-Express 3.0 x16. That's High end, also next year... :-) Right now a 8 core Jaguar@+3ghz would do as middle/high end, it's a real strong core Athlon x4 5350 have.. ATM mine is running great with a HD7950, and is replacing my FX-8320. Yes its slower, but it's not bad:-)
So.. Jaguar has a great future, but 4 cores, single channel memory, and 2.05ghz is just not enough... I guess they cant make it run much faster than 2ghz ATM.
Main Rig:
Processor & Motherboard:AMD Ryzen5 1400 ' Gigabyte B450M-DS3H
Random Access Memory Module:Adata XPG DDR4 3000 MHz 2x8GB
Graphic Card:XFX RX 580 4GB
Power Supply Unit:FSP AURUM 92+ Series PT-650M
Storage Unit:Crucial MX 500 240GB SATA III SSD
Processor Heatsink Fan:AMD Wraith Spire RGB
Chasis:Thermaltake Level 10GTS Black
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