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Thread: Mt gox bitcoin exchange is bankrupt. 850,000 bitcoins lost.

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    Mt gox bitcoin exchange is bankrupt. 850,000 bitcoins lost.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1705005

    Feel bad by those affected. There's probably a whole lot of chinese people, who are losing their entirely livelyhood and more.

    Probably a lot of people even here affected. This event is a prime example of why virtual currency is flawed and why something mined with computer technology and accordingly effected by the flaws of computer technology, make cryptocurrency, unable to be a currency, volatility.
    Last edited by tajoh111; 02-28-2014 at 09:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1705005

    Feel bad by those affected. There's probably a whole lot of chinese people, who are losing their entirely livelyhood and more.

    Probably a lot of people even here affected
    anyone who still had money in mtgox diserved to loose it, they were always shady.

    there is nothing wrong with bitcoin and no one is really all that suprised by this happening.


    this is getting so old.
    Last edited by NKrader; 02-28-2014 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NKrader View Post
    anyone who still had money in mtgox diserved to loose it, they were always shady.

    there is nothing wrong with bitcoin and no one is really all that suprised by this happening.


    this is getting so old.
    Its the shear volume of the bitcoins that makes this event significant. When 7 percent of the worlds bitcoins get whipped out like that, its huge. In modern history, I can't think of any time where something wiped out a resource or currency where 7% of it it disappeared or stolen. If this was USA currency, it would be like hundreds of billions of dollars disappearing maybe even trillions.

    Plus that bitcoin gif you posted doesn't make it isn't any less true. Something that can change its value 20-30% over night, double or triple or decrease by a similar amount over a month represents the word unstable very well. Particularly when you consider it is a currency. If Bitcoin is to be taken seriously as a currency, it needs to be stable 1st.
    Last edited by tajoh111; 02-28-2014 at 11:41 AM.
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    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A1Q0I520140227

    Mt. Gox had 600,000 customers at the time, the research report said - 30 percent from the United States, 10 percent from Britain and just 300 in Japan. Given that most users are overseas, any court case to retrieve missing funds would be more likely in the United States than Japan, said Ken Kiyohara, a lawyer at Jones Day. "It probably comes under the (Japanese) Financial Services Agency's (FSA) remit, but giving a reason for that in one sentence is impossible," he said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NKrader View Post
    anyone who still had money in mtgox diserved to loose it, they were always shady.

    there is nothing wrong with bitcoin and no one is really all that suprised by this happening.


    this is getting so old.
    Uh huh. So I deserved to loose the BTC I had in Mt. Gox because I'm a long-time-span BTC trader, and only made a trade every few weeks/months when the market had dramatic changes? Sorry I don't have the time to constantly troll the bitcoin forums.
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    I never jumped on the Bitcoin bandwagon, and (if only for the state of my electricity bill) I am glad I never did. The number of people jumping around saying smugly "I told you so" must be pretty galling to the people who wasted so much time and real money on this scam. The fact that the REAL money spent on making Bitcoins PER YEAR far exceeds the total possible value of ALL those already minted/mined is very telling. But the story and insightful comments here are VERY apposite: http://www.dailytech.com/The+Death+o...ticle34390.htm

    I can't help agreeing with the concensus there that on any rational evaluation, this was a classic pyramid scam set up to benefit those in at the start while paupering those who joined later. You can't really separate out the fraudulent exchange from the (surprise, surprise: secret) source of the currency, either. The potential long-term benefits of government-independent cyber-currency are an interesting twist in this sorry story, and yet to be proven fully, but THIS currency attempt, and this criminal exchange which systematically stole users' funds in what looks VERY suspiciously like an inside job rather than outside hacking, has neatly put that debate back for years.

    It's going to be interesting to watch individuals try to sue these people through whatever courts they think will help. Since the entire premise was that this was an UNregulated currency, no government financial authority or regulator is going to touch this unlicensed, unregulated gambling and speculation with a barge pole. And since there is nothing backing the worth of what has been lost (some digital hashes) I'll bet most civil authorities are likely to ask what crime exactly has been committed?
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    I personally have a gut feeling bitcoin will be relegated to only illegal activity 10 years from now. The US government refused to regulate it (or at least under Yellen the Federal Reserve wants no part of it), and the way the currency is de-identified it makes it particularly vulnerable to hacking. This is only the beginning, and I think you'll see a lot of the respectable people who invested great wealth will pull out of the market for more traditional investments. I'll be surprised if the average person even remembers it in a few years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans de Vries View Post

    JF-AMD posting: IPC increases!!!!!!! How many times did I tell you!!!

    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    .....}
    until (interrupt by Movieman)


    Regards, Hans

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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head View Post
    Uh huh. So I deserved to loose the BTC I had in Mt. Gox because I'm a long-time-span BTC trader, and only made a trade every few weeks/months when the market had dramatic changes? Sorry I don't have the time to constantly troll the bitcoin forums.
    I feel sorry for you, but the bold part is pretty much 101 when it comes to BTC.

    If you're going to invest real money into something as heavily volatile as BTC, you NEED to be trolling the forums constantly.

    You need to be ahead of the game at every point or your investment can disappear in a heartbeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbagz View Post
    I feel sorry for you, but the bold part is pretty much 101 when it comes to BTC.

    If you're going to invest real money into something as heavily volatile as BTC, you NEED to be trolling the forums constantly.

    You need to be ahead of the game at every point or your investment can disappear in a heartbeat.

    -PB
    This is why I'm a big fan of Burton Malkiel, as you might beat the market every now and then by betting on volatility and extreme growth, but >90% of the time the SP500 wins in the long run
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans de Vries View Post

    JF-AMD posting: IPC increases!!!!!!! How many times did I tell you!!!

    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    .....}
    until (interrupt by Movieman)


    Regards, Hans

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbagz View Post
    I feel sorry for you, but the bold part is pretty much 101 when it comes to BTC.

    If you're going to invest real money into something as heavily volatile as BTC, you NEED to be trolling the forums constantly.

    You need to be ahead of the game at every point or your investment can disappear in a heartbeat.

    -PB
    I never put any real money into it. I got in on BTC early, back in late 2010/early 2011. Mined some coins, sold some, and basically stopped caring when the difficulty got too high for my 4770 to be profitable. My most recent money came from playing around with Doge (I got in when the difficulty was about 10), and selling those. I had been using Mt. Gox successfully since the beginning and had no reason to doubt them.
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    Why were people putting their entire livlihood into a digital currency, some of whom no doubt paid little attention to the finer details? It's no better than investing heavily into the stock market. NEVER put all your eggs in one basket and never count the chickens before they hatch. Yea, they've lost out on the cost of electricity, at least the hardware can be sold on or re-purposed.
    Quote Originally Posted by T_M View Post
    Not sure i totally follow anything you said, but regardless of that you helped me come up with a very good idea....
    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    you sigged that?

    why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by K404 View Post
    Why were people putting their entire livlihood into a digital currency, some of whom no doubt paid little attention to the finer details? It's no better than investing heavily into the stock market. NEVER put all your eggs in one basket and never count the chickens before they hatch. Yea, they've lost out on the cost of electricity, at least the hardware can be sold on or re-purposed.
    For the same reason people "invest" in the lottery.

    I'm almost always available on Steam to chat. Same username.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K404 View Post
    Why were people putting their entire livlihood into a digital currency, some of whom no doubt paid little attention to the finer details? It's no better than investing heavily into the stock market. NEVER put all your eggs in one basket and never count the chickens before they hatch. Yea, they've lost out on the cost of electricity, at least the hardware can be sold on or re-purposed.
    Bitcoin mining hardware can't be sold on or re-purposed. All the ASIC designs do is an SHA-256 hashing function.

    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head View Post
    Uh huh. So I deserved to loose the BTC I had in Mt. Gox because I'm a long-time-span BTC trader, and only made a trade every few weeks/months when the market had dramatic changes? Sorry I don't have the time to constantly troll the bitcoin forums.
    Not saying you "deserved to lose" them, but I was under the impression that only idiots used Mt. Gox or kept a majority of their coins in an exchange platform. (Not saying you're an idiot personally...)
    If you only made a trade every few weeks/months then you should have had your coins in cold wallet, not an exchange. A USB drive would have worked well for you.
    Last edited by BeepBeep2; 03-01-2014 at 07:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1705005

    Feel bad by those affected. There's probably a whole lot of chinese people, who are losing their entirely livelyhood and more.

    Probably a lot of people even here affected. This event is a prime example of why virtual currency is flawed and why something mined with computer technology and accordingly effected by the flaws of computer technology, make cryptocurrency, unable to be a currency, volatility.
    Huh? Chinese people have a bigger problem to worry about, something along the lines of $3.7 Trillion US dollars they can never collect but can only roll over treasury bonds in perpetuity...

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    they've been trading those off slowly for the past few years...
    この世界には 人の運命を司る 何らかの超越的な 〝律〝...... 〝神の手〝が 存在するのだろうか? 少なくとも 人は 自らの意志さえ 自由にはできな

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    Quote Originally Posted by astrallite View Post
    Huh? Chinese people have a bigger problem to worry about, something along the lines of $3.7 Trillion US dollars they can never collect but can only roll over treasury bonds in perpetuity...
    SWING . . . . and a MISS !!!
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    Foreign Holders of US Treasury Debt


    China held $1.27T as of December, 2013. And, a country does not "roll over treasury bonds in perpetuity" -- interest on US Treasury paper is received quarterly, and principle is returned at end of term.

    Total holdings are roughly in line with those over the last 3 years ... $1.2T to $1.3T.

    And, interesting enough (I'll be the first to admit I'm not really Mr. International High Finance) as China untethers the Yuan in a more open fashion in the market, and its value rises against other foreign currencies, they will likely be cashing-in some of the 'marketable' US securities held.

    AND, with the appreciation in value of the Yuan against other foreign currencies, those exports from China will not look so attractive around the world.

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    If one good thing will come out of bitcoin, it's that the myriads of failed Radeon graphics cards used for mining hitting the market reveal what a shoddy job their engineering team did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBeep2 View Post
    Bitcoin mining hardware can't be sold on or re-purposed. All the ASIC designs do is an SHA-256 hashing function.
    Well, if users had arrays of 7990 (etc,) they can be sold off as gaming cards, or they could start mining on another server. They still have their hardware, the value of it did not suddenly go to 0.
    Quote Originally Posted by T_M View Post
    Not sure i totally follow anything you said, but regardless of that you helped me come up with a very good idea....
    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    you sigged that?

    why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mockingbird View Post
    If one good thing will come out of bitcoin, it's that the myriads of failed Radeon graphics cards used for mining hitting the market reveal what a shoddy job their engineering team did.
    Im trying to figure out what you are trying to say here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mockingbird View Post
    If one good thing will come out of bitcoin, it's that the myriads of failed Radeon graphics cards used for mining hitting the market reveal what a shoddy job their engineering team did.
    You mean the fact that there hasn't been an outbreak of RMAs over the last few years?
    Or are you talking about how AMD hasn't had to recall cards like Nvidia during bumpgate?

    Last edited by LordEC911; 03-02-2014 at 12:02 PM.
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    Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.

    Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordEC911 View Post
    You mean the fact that there hasn't been an outbreak of RMAs over the last few years?
    There haven't?

    Early 4870s didn't have issues with qimonda GDDR5 degrading?
    The GSOD issue on 5870?
    Desktop corruption on Tahiti? I sent in an rma for this one before I found out that it was a common software issues.
    Black screen issues on r9 290x?

    Yeah, neither amd or nvidia has a perfect track record. Stop being such a fanboy.
    Last edited by BababooeyHTJ; 03-04-2014 at 03:29 PM.

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    there is now an official statement on the mtgox website:

    At the start of February 2014, illegal access through the abuse of a bug in the bitcoin system resulted in an increase in incomplete bitcoin transfer transactions and we discovered that there was a possibility that bitcoins had been illicitly moved through the abuse of this bug.
    As a result of our internal investigation, we found that a large amount of bitcoins had disappeared. Although the complete extent is not yet known, we found that approximately 750,000 bitcoins deposited by users and approximately 100,000 bitcoins belonging to us had disappeared.
    We believe that there is a high probability that these bitcoins were stolen as a result of an abuse of this bug and we have asked an expert to look at the possibility of a criminal complaint and undertake proper procedures.
    On the same day (24th), we found out large discrepancies between the amount of cash held in financial institutions and the amount deposited from our users. The amounts are still under investigation and may vary but they approximate JPY 2.8 billion.
    Also it looks like mtgox was not the only exchange affected, FlexCoin is gone as well after bitcoins where stolen, although it was a much smaller amount.

    Flexcoin is shutting down.

    On March 2nd 2014 Flexcoin was attacked and robbed of all coins in the hot wallet. The attacker made off with 896 BTC, dividing them into these two addresses:

    1NDkevapt4SWYFEmquCDBSf7DLMTNVggdu

    1QFcC5JitGwpFKqRDd9QNH3eGN56dCNgy6

    As Flexcoin does not have the resources, assets, or otherwise to come back from this loss, we are closing our doors immediately.
    Users who put their coins into cold storage will be contacted by Flexcoin and asked to verify their identity. Once identified, cold storage coins will be transferred out free of charge. Cold storage coins were held offline and not within reach of the attacker. All other users will be directed to Flexcoin's "Terms of service" located at "Flexcoin.com/118.html" a document which was agreed on, upon signing up with Flexcoin.


    Flexcoin will attempt to work with law enforcement to trace the source of the hack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by naokaji View Post
    Also it looks like mtgox was not the only exchange affected, FlexCoin is gone as well after bitcoins where stolen, although it was a much smaller amount.
    That's why I think bitcoin isn't safe enough for general investment. A lot of major players are getting hacked right now
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans de Vries View Post

    JF-AMD posting: IPC increases!!!!!!! How many times did I tell you!!!

    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    terrace215 post: IPC decreases, The more I post the more it decreases.
    .....}
    until (interrupt by Movieman)


    Regards, Hans

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    Quote Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ View Post
    There haven't?

    Early 4870s didn't have issues with qimonda GDDR5 degrading?
    The GSOD issue on 5870?
    Desktop corruption on Tahiti? I sent in an rma for this one before I found out that it was a common software issues.
    Black screen issues on r9 290x?

    Yeah, neither amd or nvidia has a perfect track record. Stop being such a fanboy.
    Was it the Qimonda GDDR5 degrading on the 48xx that caused the failures? I thought there was a problem with the reference VRM deisgn... I've got a non-reference 4890 with qimonda.

    nVidia had bumpgate, but I never see their recent stuff on the market as defective. ATI/AMD OTOH, plenty of cards, not to mention their shoddy laptop chipsets (4200) which were just as shoddy as nVidia MCP and are failing en masse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordEC911 View Post
    You mean the fact that there hasn't been an outbreak of RMAs over the last few years?
    Oh, you wanna talk RMA numberz LordEC911 ? Really ?


    http://www.hardware.fr/articles/893-...raphiques.html


    http://www.hardware.fr/articles/911-...raphiques.html

    Dat are officials numbers from a famous french e-tailer, the same one which throw away Pitcairn from their rigs because of an enormous RMA rate.
    It's certainly not the huge bumpgate failure but it's quite a shame to see AMD cards far less reliable than nVidia's ones.

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