Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: FM2+ Chipsets

  1. #1
    Xtreme Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    State of Confusion, USA
    Posts
    2,513

    FM2+ Chipsets

    I'm getting ready to upgrade my HTPC. I'm going with an FM2+ board so it will be ready for Kaveri in a few months.

    Do the A88 chipsets offer any advantage over the A75's? I've tried googling it and can't find any info on the differences...
    I purchased parts yesterday, including an Asus A88XM-A http://www.microcenter.com/product/4...MD_Motherboard
    After starting the build I realized this board only has one (1) on-board fan header (other than the CPU header).
    This just won't do for my build...

    MicroCenter has a limited selection of mATX FM2+ boards and the only other one I saw that would meet my needs is the ASRock FM2A75M Pro 4+:
    http://www.microcenter.com/product/4...MD_Motherboard

    Does anyone know if/what drawbacks the older A75 chpset might have with Kaveri?

    I'm not worried about overclocking this build, so if it's just a matter of more I/O on the A88 I'll go with the ASrock.
    It has more than enough I/O for my needs in an HTPC....

    Thanks,
    Dave
    AMD FX-8350 (1237 PGN) | Asus Crosshair V Formula (bios 1703) | G.Skill 2133 CL9 @ 2230 9-11-10 | Sapphire HD 6870 | Samsung 830 128Gb SSD / 2 WD 1Tb Black SATA3 storage | Corsair TX750 PSU
    Watercooled ST 120.3 & TC 120.1 / MCP35X XSPC Top / Apogee HD Block | WIN7 64 Bit HP | Corsair 800D Obsidian Case








    First Computer: Commodore Vic 20 (circa 1981).

  2. #2
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    317
    You can always add something like this, if you really don't want to use a fan controller.
    Strix X470-F | R5 2600X, PBO OC + TRUE Bk Rev.A, 2xGT AP-15 | 4x8GB Flare X 3200C14 @3200MHz/CL14-14-14-34-1T| Strix RTX2070S Advanced 8GB @1830/1750 | SB Z | M500 240GB, DT01ACA200, AD-7243S | Lian-Li PC-B70: FC5V2 + 2xNB PK-2, 2xNB PL-2 | RM750

  3. #3
    Xtreme Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    State of Confusion, USA
    Posts
    2,513
    Thanks AlleyViper ...

    As long as I've been messing with computers I've never seen those. Too bad I already took the board back and swapped it out for the ASRock Pro 4+...
    I'll definitely keep that cable in mind for future builds though!

    Since my (impatient) self couldn't wait for a reply before retuning the A88 board, I'm still curious about the differences between chipsets w/Kaveri.
    I realize Kaveri isn't out to the general public yet, but I was hoping some of the guru's who get advanced access to new AMD products might chime in...

    The Stilt, Flank3r, I know both you guys get beta testing rights on new AMD gear.
    As long as the question doesn't violate NDA would either one of you care to offer some insight?
    AMD FX-8350 (1237 PGN) | Asus Crosshair V Formula (bios 1703) | G.Skill 2133 CL9 @ 2230 9-11-10 | Sapphire HD 6870 | Samsung 830 128Gb SSD / 2 WD 1Tb Black SATA3 storage | Corsair TX750 PSU
    Watercooled ST 120.3 & TC 120.1 / MCP35X XSPC Top / Apogee HD Block | WIN7 64 Bit HP | Corsair 800D Obsidian Case








    First Computer: Commodore Vic 20 (circa 1981).

  4. #4
    Xtreme Legend
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    1,697
    The A88X chipset offers nothing new compared to A85X.
    In fact it is worse than it's predecessor.

    A88X has an upgraded AHCI / RAID controller which makes it unable (as it currently appears) to run over 106MHz BCLK while AHCI is enabled. Personally I would rather see the top tier FM2+ motherboard using A85X FCH instead of the A88X.

  5. #5
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    138
    That's a shame.. I want to buy the Asus A88X-PRO and get the top kaveri model at launch. This board is nowhere to be found in Romania... Now, i'm not so sure which board would be best for overclocking and still retain some good features. I followed your comments, The Stilt and compared it with Asus A85-V Pro and found little differences (PCIE 3.0, onboard audio, some software, debug codes, -1 sata port, +1 esata port).
    Do you have any info if they're gonna solve the controller impeding BCLK issue?
    FX 8370 * Chrosshair V Formula Z * 16GB Kingston 1866 * Sapphire Fury * Samsung 850 Pro * WD Raptor 74Gb * Seagate 2TB * Seagate 1TB * Corsair 1200i * Corsair 800D
    EK Supremacy EVO * EK-FB Crosshair V * EK Coolstream XE 480 + XE 120 * D5 * EK F4-120 * Lamptron FC5 * Masterkleer tubing * EK coolant

  6. #6
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Munich, DE
    Posts
    1,401
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
    A88X has an upgraded AHCI / RAID controller which makes it unable (as it currently appears) to run over 106MHz BCLK while AHCI is enabled. Personally I would rather see the top tier FM2+ motherboard using A85X FCH instead of the A88X.
    Amd added an internal clock generator to there 800 chipset as an option. Can be it is still possible to use an external clock generator on A88X to detach it from BCLK but that option is no longer used.

  7. #7
    Xtreme Legend
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    1,697
    The internal clockgen(s) has existed since SB600.
    The issue is not about internal clockgen being used but the AHCI/RAID controller itself.
    It always operates at the BCLK frequency no matter if the CLKIN frequency is sourced from a external or one of the internal clockgens. The FCH cannot use multiple clockgens simultaneously it is either the external or one of the internals.

    It was the same for Ax5(X) series chipsets, however the AHCI/RAID controller in Ax5(X) could withstand up to 140MHz BCLK.

    The internal clockgens found in Jaguar and newer SoCs is much more smarter.
    All of the different frequencies can be adjusted separately in relation to BCLK (PCI-E, DISPCLK, SATA, USB, etc).
    Last edited by The Stilt; 12-24-2013 at 04:08 AM.

  8. #8
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Munich, DE
    Posts
    1,401
    Just found old specs of an ICS951464 used on 690G here. Looking at the old spec this chip could generate five different frequencies called CPU/HTT/SRC/ATIG/USB via independant multipliers and dividers based on an 14.318MHz input from an crystal oscilator. I only played with the CPU multipliers and dividers back then but always had the impression SRC was used for SATA and at least back then was thereby independant of CPU ie. ref-HT/BCLK. I have no specs of the internal clock gens but expected that an external one may provide more flexibility.
    Last edited by justapost; 12-24-2013 at 05:42 AM.

  9. #9
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    317
    OT: that unfortunate situation reminds me of the first days of socket 754 on a Via KT800 exactly 10 years ago (no pci/agp lock).
    Strix X470-F | R5 2600X, PBO OC + TRUE Bk Rev.A, 2xGT AP-15 | 4x8GB Flare X 3200C14 @3200MHz/CL14-14-14-34-1T| Strix RTX2070S Advanced 8GB @1830/1750 | SB Z | M500 240GB, DT01ACA200, AD-7243S | Lian-Li PC-B70: FC5V2 + 2xNB PK-2, 2xNB PL-2 | RM750

  10. #10
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Munich, DE
    Posts
    1,401
    While searching the web i found the "AMD A45/A50M/A55E Fusion Controller Hub Register Reference Guide". At least with the internal clock generator of that chip it was possible to select eighter the oscilator or CP_PLL_REFCLK (BCLK) as the clock source for sata.
    Update: just realized these are all mobile chipsets. guess all soc's.
    Last edited by justapost; 12-24-2013 at 10:23 PM.

  11. #11
    Xtreme Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    State of Confusion, USA
    Posts
    2,513
    Thanks for the info on the chipsets folks!
    I had a feeling the newer variants only offered more in respect to I/O and this build isn't intended for OC'ing...

    Just for the record, the ASRock (A75) Pro4+ is running very smoothly with the 5800k.
    Hopefully I won't be in for any surprises when I drop a Kaveri chip in it (stock)...

    Times are slow for AMD, but I always know where to come when I need answers from knowledgeable people!

    Thanks Again,
    Dave
    AMD FX-8350 (1237 PGN) | Asus Crosshair V Formula (bios 1703) | G.Skill 2133 CL9 @ 2230 9-11-10 | Sapphire HD 6870 | Samsung 830 128Gb SSD / 2 WD 1Tb Black SATA3 storage | Corsair TX750 PSU
    Watercooled ST 120.3 & TC 120.1 / MCP35X XSPC Top / Apogee HD Block | WIN7 64 Bit HP | Corsair 800D Obsidian Case








    First Computer: Commodore Vic 20 (circa 1981).

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by chinook View Post
    That's a shame.. I want to buy the Asus A88X-PRO and get the top kaveri model at launch. This board is nowhere to be found in Romania... Now, i'm not so sure which board would be best for overclocking and still retain some good features. I followed your comments, The Stilt and compared it with Asus A85-V Pro and found little differences (PCIE 3.0, onboard audio, some software, debug codes, -1 sata port, +1 esata port).
    Do you have any info if they're gonna solve the controller impeding BCLK issue?
    If you're still considering the A88X-PRO then whatever the chipset's disadvantage against the A85X I have to say the Asus A88X-PRO is a marked improvement over the Asus F2A85X-PRO.

    This may just be down to the improvements in the BIOS and AI Suite, but there is also an enhanced VRM setup with huge heatsinks that gives a feeling of power and stability to the installation process and the way it runs that wasn't there before - even with My F2A85X-PRO.

    Trying an A10-6800K APU with 16Gb of Trident-X 2400MHz RAM straight away without any gradual build-up process it made no complaints about switching to the DOCP setting in the AI Tweaker menu in BIOS.

    After the OS (W7/U64) was installed the 4-way Optimizer in AI Suite 3 produced an automated 103x45 overclock of CPU:4635/RAM:2472/VCore:1.512/GPU:1013 giving a performance boost of 13%.

    Perhaps the real point about A88X is just its place in the development of APU boards.

  13. #13
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Denmark / Aarhus
    Posts
    1,036
    An important thing is the ability to change TPD on the CPU aka lower power consumption which is important on a HTPC, not sure why you are complaining about limited overclock when we are talking using it on HTPC, then that should be pretty pointless at least for me.

    MY FM2+ build idles at 26-28W with a 400W PSU (Dont think its worth it to use 100$ to get a PicoPSU)
    http://www.overclock.net/t/1448459/m...-htpc-26w-idle

    This build is both a NAS and HTPC which that motherboard is perfect for with HDMI IN, 6 SATA and mSATA
    Desktop I5-3570k, 8GB Ram, GTX 560, Silverstone TJ08-E, Crucial M4 128GB, 750W Silver Power, ASUS P8Z77-M
    Laptop ThinkPad W520 2720QM /2 x 4 GB ram / Quadro 1000M / Crucial M4 128GB + 500Gb Hdd / FHD Screen / Intel WiFi Link 6300 AGN WLAN / 9 Cell Battery
    Laptop 2 New Macbook Pro Retina / i7 QuadCore / 650 GT / 16GB Ram / 512 GB SSD
    Server: Athlon II X4 640, ASROCK K10N78, 8GB Ram, LSI MegaRaid 8 port, 64GB Vertex 1, 5 x 1 TB WD Raid6, 3 x 3TB Seagate Raid5

  14. #14
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    138
    Actually i was refferring to a ATX FM2+ board which i was interested in (for overclocking the upcoming APU, overclocking RAM, etc).
    I was under the impression that the thread was about FM2+ chipset specs and differences over previous chipsets, not specifically HTPC builds.
    Sorry Dave, if i derailed your thread.
    FX 8370 * Chrosshair V Formula Z * 16GB Kingston 1866 * Sapphire Fury * Samsung 850 Pro * WD Raptor 74Gb * Seagate 2TB * Seagate 1TB * Corsair 1200i * Corsair 800D
    EK Supremacy EVO * EK-FB Crosshair V * EK Coolstream XE 480 + XE 120 * D5 * EK F4-120 * Lamptron FC5 * Masterkleer tubing * EK coolant

  15. #15
    Xtreme Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    State of Confusion, USA
    Posts
    2,513
    Quote Originally Posted by chinook View Post
    Actually i was refferring to a ATX FM2+ board which i was interested in (for overclocking the upcoming APU, overclocking RAM, etc).
    I was under the impression that the thread was about FM2+ chipset specs and differences over previous chipsets, not specifically HTPC builds.
    Sorry Dave, if i derailed your thread.
    No Problem chinook...

    This build was about an HTPC, but my chipset question was about Kaveri, so I don't think you were OT at all!
    Kinda sucks having to buy a board (chipset) for an UN-released processor, but it is what it is...

    If the "piledriver/APU" cores do a decent job with lower power consumption I'll be a happy camper and would consider a new mobo too.
    AMD FX-8350 (1237 PGN) | Asus Crosshair V Formula (bios 1703) | G.Skill 2133 CL9 @ 2230 9-11-10 | Sapphire HD 6870 | Samsung 830 128Gb SSD / 2 WD 1Tb Black SATA3 storage | Corsair TX750 PSU
    Watercooled ST 120.3 & TC 120.1 / MCP35X XSPC Top / Apogee HD Block | WIN7 64 Bit HP | Corsair 800D Obsidian Case








    First Computer: Commodore Vic 20 (circa 1981).

  16. #16
    I am Xtreme FlanK3r's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Czech republic
    Posts
    6,804
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
    The internal clockgen(s) has existed since SB600.
    The issue is not about internal clockgen being used but the AHCI/RAID controller itself.
    It always operates at the BCLK frequency no matter if the CLKIN frequency is sourced from a external or one of the internal clockgens. The FCH cannot use multiple clockgens simultaneously it is either the external or one of the internals.

    It was the same for Ax5(X) series chipsets, however the AHCI/RAID controller in Ax5(X) could withstand up to 140MHz BCLK.

    The internal clockgens found in Jaguar and newer SoCs is much more smarter.
    All of the different frequencies can be adjusted separately in relation to BCLK (PCI-E, DISPCLK, SATA, USB, etc).
    confirm it from practice in last days...
    ROG Power PCs - Intel and AMD
    CPUs:i9-7900X, i9-9900K, i7-6950X, i7-5960X, i7-8086K, i7-8700K, 4x i7-7700K, i3-7350K, 2x i7-6700K, i5-6600K, R7-2700X, 4x R5 2600X, R5 2400G, R3 1200, R7-1800X, R7-1700X, 3x AMD FX-9590, 1x AMD FX-9370, 4x AMD FX-8350,1x AMD FX-8320,1x AMD FX-8300, 2x AMD FX-6300,2x AMD FX-4300, 3x AMD FX-8150, 2x AMD FX-8120 125 and 95W, AMD X2 555 BE, AMD x4 965 BE C2 and C3, AMD X4 970 BE, AMD x4 975 BE, AMD x4 980 BE, AMD X6 1090T BE, AMD X6 1100T BE, A10-7870K, Athlon 845, Athlon 860K,AMD A10-7850K, AMD A10-6800K, A8-6600K, 2x AMD A10-5800K, AMD A10-5600K, AMD A8-3850, AMD A8-3870K, 2x AMD A64 3000+, AMD 64+ X2 4600+ EE, Intel i7-980X, Intel i7-2600K, Intel i7-3770K,2x i7-4770K, Intel i7-3930KAMD Cinebench R10 challenge AMD Cinebench R15 thread Intel Cinebench R15 thread

  17. #17
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Munich, DE
    Posts
    1,401
    Same here, when using AHCI the BCLK limit is exact 106MHz, with IDE legacy it's 140MHz and that worked fine with an external pcie gfx card as well, so i assume pcie clocks are generated separated from BCLK. Read that by using BCLK as the base for other clock's helps with powersaving because the other clocksources can be powered off. Still i'm curious if it could be possible to configure the AHCI clocks to use the oscilator's direct via an bios modification. It's abit odd that this option was available (but not used) before and is available on all the mobile chipsets.

  18. #18
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
    The A88X chipset offers nothing new compared to A85X.
    In fact it is worse than it's predecessor.

    A88X has an upgraded AHCI / RAID controller which makes it unable (as it currently appears) to run over 106MHz BCLK while AHCI is enabled. Personally I would rather see the top tier FM2+ motherboard using A85X FCH instead of the A88X.
    So does this mean A85X will fully support Kaveri out of the box or with BIOS update? If you have K SKU chip does the BCLK limit mean that much?

    Looking to upgrade a family members rig that will have light to mild OC but nothing else too stressful. So would like to know which one to go with.
    Heatware
    filmbot

  19. #19
    I am Xtreme FlanK3r's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Czech republic
    Posts
    6,804
    A85X are not FM2+ boards, only A88x are FM2+

    max multiplier is 63x and this not must be enough for LN2 tweaking. Max memory divider is 2400 MHz I think with Kaveri APU, but you need sometimes more...Kaveri, seems, will have not problem working with 2666 MHz for 24/7.
    ROG Power PCs - Intel and AMD
    CPUs:i9-7900X, i9-9900K, i7-6950X, i7-5960X, i7-8086K, i7-8700K, 4x i7-7700K, i3-7350K, 2x i7-6700K, i5-6600K, R7-2700X, 4x R5 2600X, R5 2400G, R3 1200, R7-1800X, R7-1700X, 3x AMD FX-9590, 1x AMD FX-9370, 4x AMD FX-8350,1x AMD FX-8320,1x AMD FX-8300, 2x AMD FX-6300,2x AMD FX-4300, 3x AMD FX-8150, 2x AMD FX-8120 125 and 95W, AMD X2 555 BE, AMD x4 965 BE C2 and C3, AMD X4 970 BE, AMD x4 975 BE, AMD x4 980 BE, AMD X6 1090T BE, AMD X6 1100T BE, A10-7870K, Athlon 845, Athlon 860K,AMD A10-7850K, AMD A10-6800K, A8-6600K, 2x AMD A10-5800K, AMD A10-5600K, AMD A8-3850, AMD A8-3870K, 2x AMD A64 3000+, AMD 64+ X2 4600+ EE, Intel i7-980X, Intel i7-2600K, Intel i7-3770K,2x i7-4770K, Intel i7-3930KAMD Cinebench R10 challenge AMD Cinebench R15 thread Intel Cinebench R15 thread

  20. #20
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Munich, DE
    Posts
    1,401
    Dave hope you dont mind if i post fm2+ chipset related stuff in your thread here.
    Received an Asrock FM2A88X Extreme6+ today. Had also orderen an kaveri but that one was out of stock as soon as i had hit order. So i tested with a4-4000. Selected AHCI in the bios gave it an fresh install and it seems this board can handle higher bclk frequencies. It uses amd-sata and not msahci but it works well upto the boards max bclk 136MHz. At 133MHz however the network interface stops working. Also tried it with linux from an usb3 stick but there the ahci module is still not working with the high bclk.

  21. #21
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    1,943
    Quote Originally Posted by FlanK3r View Post
    A85X are not FM2+ boards, only A88x are FM2+

    max multiplier is 63x and this not must be enough for LN2 tweaking. Max memory divider is 2400 MHz I think with Kaveri APU, but you need sometimes more...Kaveri, seems, will have not problem working with 2666 MHz for 24/7.
    the gigabyte board im using has a max multi of x79 or is some not usable??
    Amd Nvidia/Ati -3dmark06 scorebord revisted

    asus L1N64-ws or /b depending on bios chip
    4x1gig 8500 gkill bpk
    2x opteron 8224 @ 3.8ghz
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=236
    vga= 8800gt
    winxp pro

    custom chiller -31 water
    2x dtek fuzions
    bix3-with x3panaflo hi output
    antec 850 quattro

    heat under msimax abitmax and dfimax

  22. #22
    I am Xtreme FlanK3r's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Czech republic
    Posts
    6,804
    with Kaveri chip? Its strange...I think, max multiplier for 15h is 63x
    ROG Power PCs - Intel and AMD
    CPUs:i9-7900X, i9-9900K, i7-6950X, i7-5960X, i7-8086K, i7-8700K, 4x i7-7700K, i3-7350K, 2x i7-6700K, i5-6600K, R7-2700X, 4x R5 2600X, R5 2400G, R3 1200, R7-1800X, R7-1700X, 3x AMD FX-9590, 1x AMD FX-9370, 4x AMD FX-8350,1x AMD FX-8320,1x AMD FX-8300, 2x AMD FX-6300,2x AMD FX-4300, 3x AMD FX-8150, 2x AMD FX-8120 125 and 95W, AMD X2 555 BE, AMD x4 965 BE C2 and C3, AMD X4 970 BE, AMD x4 975 BE, AMD x4 980 BE, AMD X6 1090T BE, AMD X6 1100T BE, A10-7870K, Athlon 845, Athlon 860K,AMD A10-7850K, AMD A10-6800K, A8-6600K, 2x AMD A10-5800K, AMD A10-5600K, AMD A8-3850, AMD A8-3870K, 2x AMD A64 3000+, AMD 64+ X2 4600+ EE, Intel i7-980X, Intel i7-2600K, Intel i7-3770K,2x i7-4770K, Intel i7-3930KAMD Cinebench R10 challenge AMD Cinebench R15 thread Intel Cinebench R15 thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •