Is Maxwell for soon ? Yes and no - Hardware.fr

[Olivon]

Looks to me BRIGHT SIDE OF NEWS didn't talk to the same euro retailer as Hardware.fr did (see the OP) and claiming "GeForce GTX 700 is selling very well and dominate the market against the Radeon R9" or there must be something else wrong, but it's very hard to argue against the real evidence.

Read much more at bsn, mainly about the LiteCoin

We'll see the Q4 2013 numberz next year but I guess the situation will remain the same with a nVidia domination regarding Discrete graphics card.
If wrong, I 'll send you a cookie I promess.

This article only lowered my expectations from Maxwell.

Good. But this article doesn't talk about performance at all.

[kromosto]

Good. But this article doesn't talk about performance at all.

Yes but i am sure everybody that reads this article can easily think Maxwell's first aim is energy efficiency and don't expect much a performance increase from it. If someone's highest priority is energy efficiency then they will increase their expectations by reading this article but people like me looking for performance first will lower it.

[LordEC911]

Word is 28nm Maxwell is out there already and ready to be launched between end of January and March. Not the monster chip obviously, but they will be able to get a very powerful chip out there which isn't the highlight of the Maxwell show.

I'd imagine this would give them again the performance crown, and firmly putting the ball back into AMD's court. Forcing AMD to launch 20nm first, then nVidia would launch their big chip and the whole thing is done and dusted again. Pretty sure Hawaii was AMD's ace up the sleeve, what else can they launch before 20nm is ready? That should give nVidia a large part of Q1 to themselves. Not the first time nVidia has played their cards just right.

The talk right now is of a GM106/107 not a GM104 or higher...
I don't think they played their cards just right, they played the cards and made the only moves they could.

Itaru @ B3d found the CUDA 6.0 PDF

[SKYMTL]

A little inside info for everyone:

According to two of my major NA retailer contacts, even though AMD's cards are getting sold out due to their mining abilities, it is more a resupply issue than anything else. Even with the mining craze, the sales of NVIDIA's cards are only about ~5% less than those of AMD. That bodes quite poorly for the interest of gamers in the R9 series.

[kromosto]

A little inside info for everyone:

According to two of my major NA retailer contacts, even though AMD's cards are getting sold out due to their mining abilities, it is more a resupply issue than anything else. Even with the mining craze, the sales of NVIDIA's cards are only about ~5% less than those of AMD. That bodes quite poorly for the interest of gamers in the R9 series.

I don't get the word mining here but if i understand you correctly you are saying that AMD cards are quickly sold out because AMD can't supply enough and even with this NVIDIAS card sales are only about %5 less then AMD's.

If this is not what you are saying then don't bother what I wrote below.

Isn't this state if AMD can supply more %5 gap will become bigger? Even we ignore this I believe before R9 series NVidia's sales were higher so this indicates the opposite for gamers interests and I believe gamers are waiting for custom cooler editions. Also is the %5 gap is on all card sales or just 290 and 290x against 780 and 780ti or something like this?

I also believe AMD intentionally keep the supply short because they want custom versions to get sold much more. Just my thought.

[LordEC911]

A little inside info for everyone:

According to two of my major NA retailer contacts, even though AMD's cards are getting sold out due to their mining abilities, it is more a resupply issue than anything else. Even with the mining craze, the sales of NVIDIA's cards are only about ~5% less than those of AMD. That bodes quite poorly for the interest of gamers in the R9 series.

Uh huh. Right... I know where this is coming from.

[Heinz68]

A little inside info for everyone:

According to two of my major NA retailer contacts, even though AMD's cards are getting sold out due to their mining abilities, it is more a resupply issue than anything else. Even with the mining craze, the sales of NVIDIA's cards are only about ~5% less than those of AMD. That bodes quite poorly for the interest of gamers in the R9 series.

Did you talk to the same retailers as Hardware.fr LOL
Maybe you should find out who did BSN talked with. Many of the Canadian retailers are last on the list when it comes to supply. In that case your figure might be right if they have hardly any AMD cards for sale.

WTH this has anything to do with "That bodes quite poorly for the interest of gamers in the R9 series." I do see on many tech and gamers forum people buying the cards and some are waiting for the custom cooler version same as I do. You need some links?

Many of the gamers are also LiteCoin miners, same as I just started with the HD 6990, cost me nothing extra and it might pay for the R9290/X in 2 -3 months.

The AMD 7900 series are sold out due to mining and I thought they are EOL, but it might not be the case, we might see some more 7950s. That should leave R9 series cards for gamers only and hopefully stop the price gouging.



Source

[tajoh111]

A 5 percent lead over Nvidia in sales is pretty dramatic. Amd was probably in between 30 and 40 percent before, so a jump to 55% is pretty big victory for them. Nvidia runs a less efficient ship with lots of overhead from tegra. They can't a afford in the long run to have less marketshare than AMD. They spend too much on R and D that a 45% marketshare will cause them to lose lots of money.

[LordEC911]

A 5 percent lead over Nvidia in sales is pretty dramatic. Amd was probably in between 30 and 40 percent before, so a jump to 55% is pretty big victory for them. Nvidia runs a less efficient ship with lots of overhead from tegra. They can't a afford in the long run to have less marketshare than AMD. They spend too much on R and D that a 45% marketshare will cause them to lose lots of money.

Not marketshare. Supposedly sales figures from two NA retailers...

[Olivon]

http://www.pcw.fr/pdf/Specifications...%20Roadmap.pdf

This Clevo roadmap indicates February '14 for Maxwell mobile launch.

Via PCGH

[Hornet331]

Agreed, with this Coin rubbish going on AMD can't make enough cards and retailers are price hiking.

wonder what you are talking about... prices here for 290s have been constantly drooping the past month same for all the other cards, only ones harder to get are the 290 and the 280X. Most of the retailers have new batches coming for end of the year/beginning of the new year.

[vario]

A little inside info for everyone:

According to two of my major NA retailer contacts, even though AMD's cards are getting sold out due to their mining abilities, it is more a resupply issue than anything else. Even with the mining craze, the sales of NVIDIA's cards are only about ~5% less than those of AMD. That bodes quite poorly for the interest of gamers in the R9 series.

I dont think you said what you think you said ;-) .
Because it means AMD`s market rose 15-20% and thats pretty much hampered by the lack of cards, it looks like it would be even more with steady supply.
Personally i think it applies only for mid-high end cards.Supply of 280X got better here but still in my city of almost a million theyre elusive, internet shops have them but prices arent that attractive, same goes for 290/290x.
As for your statement about gamers not being interested in R9 series, its actually mind blowing to came to that conclusion when theyre solding out everywhere.Yes coiners give a boost, but this people also game in vast majority and you have exactly NO IDEA how much buy them just because of mining.
Its pretty obvious AMD wasnt expecting such demand themselves.
As for maxwell , not that exciting given that this cards are going to be mid-low end ones at start.

[PedantOne]

in february will be available New succesor of GK104 on desktop and some mobile SKUs too.

PS. 880M is not rebrand, but pretty new maxwell chip.

[iMacmatician]

PedantOne, do you have any more details on this Maxwell chip?

[boxleitnerb]

What they know and what they publish it two different stories. They are lately so green it's not even nice, only couple Germans sites are worst and you should know better since all are your fav sites.

Such a nonsense and you know it. Hardware.fr and most German sites have the best testing methods on the web. That's a fact.

[boxleitnerb]

I know that he is paranoid and sees anti-AMD conspiracies everywhere. Oh well

[Iconyu]

wonder what you are talking about... prices here for 290s have been constantly drooping the past month same for all the other cards, only ones harder to get are the 290 and the 280X. Most of the retailers have new batches coming for end of the year/beginning of the new year.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...877&IsNodeId=1 Out of stock and they are supposed to cost $399 each, as you can see the lowest is $499

[GoldenTiger]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...877&IsNodeId=1 Out of stock and they are supposed to cost $399 each, as you can see the lowest is $499

Same with amazon and every other vendor basically in the US. Miners are snapping them up (including myself).

I dont think you said what you think you said ;-) .
Because it means AMD`s market rose 15-20% and thats pretty much hampered by the lack of cards, it looks like it would be even more with steady supply.
Personally i think it applies only for mid-high end cards.Supply of 280X got better here but still in my city of almost a million theyre elusive, internet shops have them but prices arent that attractive, same goes for 290/290x.
As for your statement about gamers not being interested in R9 series, its actually mind blowing to came to that conclusion when theyre solding out everywhere.Yes coiners give a boost, but this people also game in vast majority and you have exactly NO IDEA how much buy them just because of mining.
Its pretty obvious AMD wasnt expecting such demand themselves.
As for maxwell , not that exciting given that this cards are going to be mid-low end ones at start.

I'm sure he's quite able to say what he knows he's saying.

It means that AMD's *SALES* rose a nice amount but that the marketshare isn't really changed, just the sales for this small time period, hampered by low supply which means if they weren't selling out to gamers before, coin miners are the guys causing it since that's the segment with huge intensity right now and nothing happened to change gamers' demand for the better. It's very obvious that us miners are the vast majority of purchases right now since the cards were in-stock readily at MSRP/below for month(s) and then once the coin news picked up, they're suddenly out everywhere and being jacked up in pricing when they're in-stock for brief periods. As SKYMTL is saying from his source, this doesn't mean they're selling well in absolute terms but rather just that they are having trouble maintaining their normally-small supply with vendors and keep having to refill it with small amounts.

Maxwell could be very interesting if it's really GM104... 2x GK104 are compelling compared to GK110 as a 780 for example, and even 780 Ti to this day. If we get a GM104 that's similar to what GM100/110 ends up being in the same way that GK104 is to GK110, well, that's very interesting performance and certainly not low-end cards at the start if true.

[AliG]

Same with amazon and every other vendor basically in the US. Miners are snapping them up (including myself).

How does that work exactly?

[tajoh111]

Such a nonsense and you know it. Hardware.fr and most German sites have the best testing methods on the web. That's a fact.

These are the so called uber mode clocks that hardware.fr used.

If anything hardware.fr is pro AMD. They purposely crippled Nvidia clocks on every review prior to the 290x ones.

Look at the titan clocks, gtx 780 clocks and gtx 780 ti clocks without uber mode. They are basically the bare minimum boost and standard clocks. Cards hardly run at these bare minimum clocks. Hardware.fr artificially under-clocked the cards. Hardware.fr results have typically shown as a result Nvidia cards to underperform.

Compare Nvidia's uber mode clocks now. They are just the standard clocks most cards are running at in reviews.

With an AMD uber mode tested, it wouldn't be fair to unclock Nvidia cards anymore. Nvidia clocks run like the uber mode clocks straight out of the box without even having to flip a switch like AMD's. They are the true clocks.

[Heinz68]

These are the so called uber mode clocks that hardware.fr used.

If anything hardware.fr is pro AMD. They purposely crippled Nvidia clocks on every review prior to the 290x ones.

Look at the titan clocks, gtx 780 clocks and gtx 780 ti clocks without uber mode. They are basically the bare minimum boost and standard clocks. Cards hardly run at these bare minimum clocks. Hardware.fr artificially under-clocked the cards. Hardware.fr results have typically shown as a result Nvidia cards to underperform.

Compare Nvidia's uber mode clocks now. They are just the standard clocks most cards are running at in reviews.

With an AMD uber mode tested, it wouldn't be fair to unclock Nvidia cards anymore. Nvidia clocks run like the uber mode clocks straight out of the box without even having to flip a switch like AMD's. They are the true clocks.

You just keep repeating the same misinformation (to put it nicely). I already told you GTX 780 series cards do not have any Uber mode that's why no other review site used Uber mode and the Hardware.fr did not run any 780s under clocked it would not make any sense.

Most of the reviews show table with all the specification if you would bother to check. I decided to ignore the 'boxleitnerb' post, so he kept forwarding it by himself. Was he looking for post counts or arguments? I had no time for that since it was kind personal anyway and best to ignore. So now you're helping him out. LOL

Anyway since you decided to ignore other reviews posted specs, maybe the specs directly from Nvidia might end up the argument. Just to remind you the R9 290 series cards compared are reference design.

Specifications
Note: The below specifications represent this GPU as incorporated into NVIDIA's reference graphics card design. Graphics card specifications may vary by Add-in-card manufacturer. Please refer to the Add-in-card manufacturers' website for actual shipping specifications.

GTX 780 GPU Engine Specs:
863 Base Clock (MHz)
900Boost Clock (MHz

Again directly from Nvidia the latest GTX 780 Ti

Specifications
Note: The below specifications represent this GPU as incorporated into NVIDIA's reference graphics card design. Graphics card specifications may vary by Add-in-card manufacturer. Please refer to the Add-in-card manufacturers' website for actual shipping specifications.

GTX 780 Ti GPU Engine Specs:
875 Base Clock (MHz)
928 Boost Clock (MHz)

I used the link Olivion posted with this benchmarks (kind of strange to use selective benchmarks when there are 21 reviews in the OP) oops my bad, none had the GTX 780 in Uber mode LOL. Anyway from the same review page 13 Google translate, the Uber mode was MSI and ASUS custom built cards.

So this time we have not tested the GeForce GTX reference with 2 additional fans as was the case during their respective tests. Instead we built against by the results of a GeForce GTX 780 which we call Uber. This GeForce GTX 780 "Uber" is a GeForce GTX 780 capable of maintaining its maximum frequency -1 stop permanently as c ' is the case for the Asus, Gigabyte and MSI models that have recently passed through our hands. (1006-13 = 993 MHz for the sample) show performance of such a model seems to be more interesting in this case.

"show performance of such a model seems to be more interesting in this case."

[tajoh111]

You just keep repeating the same misinformation (to put it nicely). I already told you GTX 780 series cards do not have any Uber mode that's why no other review site used Uber mode and the Hardware.fr did not run any 780s under clocked it would not make any sense.

Most of the reviews show table with all the specification if you would bother to check. I decided to ignore the 'boxleitnerb' post, so he kept forwarding it by himself. Was he looking for post counts or arguments? I had no time for that since it was kind personal anyway and best to ignore. So now you're helping him out. LOL

Anyway since you decided to ignore other reviews posted specs, maybe the specs directly from Nvidia might end up the argument. Just to remind you the R9 290 series cards compared are reference design.


Again directly from Nvidia the latest GTX 780 Ti

I used the link Olivion posted with this benchmarks (kind of strange to use selective benchmarks when there are 21 reviews in the OP) oops my bad, none had the GTX 780 in Uber mode LOL. Anyway from the same review page 13 Google translate, the Uber mode was MSI and ASUS custom built cards.


"show performance of such a model seems to be more interesting in this case."

Honestly, you keep on denying but don't you think you could be the one saying misinformation?


Cards usually boost at higher level than the noted specs in the gtx 780 reviews, or all reviews in general. Heinz don't play dumb we both know Nvidia cards will boost beyond their minimum boost. The clocks on the box of the card are never right and only represent the minimum to avoid any sort of lawsuit for false advertising.




http://www.anandtech.com/show/6973/n...-780-review/19

Anandtech average clock for the gtx 780 is around 990mhz while titans clocks are on average 980mhz.

Look at the above clocks for example and compare their titan clocks and gtx 780 clocks with Hardware.fr. Hardware.fr limits the boost of Nvidia cards to a minimum level. And they limit this in their settings. I have always questioned why their results were so low until Oblivon explained to me they set limits on the card so the boost is never allowed to go above 876 for titan for example. They have to mess with the settings to do this, so it is the same as underclocking the card because real performance will be higher. Its the sames as setting profile settings to a lower level that comes out of the box. Something analogous to this would be setting an AMD cards max fan profile to 38% or something. To get the clocks hardware.fr does, you have to mess with the settings in a manner that lower performance compared to stock.

In this case, they set boost limits to 50mhz which is what the product will do under the worst circumstances really.

Testing like this has hurt Nvidia cards in the past and hence undermines your argument that they are are pro-Nvidia website.

Look at every single gk110 review out there and you will see that in every single review, these cards boost beyond their 50mhz boost clock on the box.

Heres another review that shows this.



http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...on-review.html

Every single review out there has the cards in the reviews boosting to higher clocks than the minimum boost clocks.

[boxleitnerb]

True. Although you have to differentiate between those sites that benchmark hot and cold or set a fixed boost for Kepler (PCGH and HT4U do this).

It has become quite complicated. Fact of the matter is, just like with AMDs uber mode, Nvidias cards can clock at or near their maximum boost bin (the exact value depends on each single card, but the variance isn't that large) if comparable settings (temperature target) are applied. Also fact is that most sites test AMD uber vs NV stock which under realistic conditions (pre-heating) is biased towards AMD, not Nvidia. Even Heinz should see that.

[tajoh111]

True. Although you have to differentiate between those sites that benchmark hot and cold or set a fixed boost for Kepler (PCGH and HT4U do this).

It has become quite complicated. Fact of the matter is, just like with AMDs uber mode, Nvidias cards can clock at or near their maximum boost bin (the exact value depends on each single card, but the variance isn't that large) if comparable settings (temperature target) are applied. Also fact is that most sites test AMD uber vs NV stock which under realistic conditions (pre-heating) is biased towards AMD, not Nvidia. Even Heinz should see that.

Nvidia boosting is far more honest when it comes to advertising.

Nvidia gives you conservatives specs of what to expect and a narrower range.

AMD gives this up to 1000mhz figure that can be really only sustained in uber mode which is not what set directly out of the box.

It would be better if AMD gave a higher base clock and a narrower range.

E.g raised clocks to 850mhz and had max boost clocks at 1000mhz.

Not this 662mhz - 1000mhz range. AMD never advertises this low range even though cards have been seen to clock this low in the right circumstances.

Its ridiculous that Heinz is calling hardware.fr, nvidia favoring considering their past testing methodology has favored AMD cards. And they finally let Nvidia cards boost like they really do after AMD cards are allowed to boost.

[vario]

It means that AMD's *SALES* rose a nice amount but that the marketshare isn't really changed, just the sales for this small time period, hampered by low supply which means if they weren't selling out to gamers before, coin miners are the guys causing it since that's the segment with huge intensity right now and nothing happened to change gamers' demand for the better. It's very obvious that us miners are the vast majority of purchases right now since the cards were in-stock readily at MSRP/below for month(s) and then once the coin news picked up, they're suddenly out everywhere and being jacked up in pricing when they're in-stock for brief periods. As SKYMTL is saying from his source, this doesn't mean they're selling well in absolute terms but rather just that they are having trouble maintaining their normally-small supply with vendors and keep having to refill it with small amounts.

Well the fact is, nobody can know how much AMD Gpus are being bought for the sole purpose of mining.NOBODY, so claims like "gamers arent interested in amd" while AMD cards being sold out around the world are just absurd.There is no way of knowing how big of a percentage are cards only for mining.And of course that a short surge cant change overall marketshare ,however i was under the impression were talking about sales in the holiday season.
As for the rest of your post
A) 290`swerent available before
B) BF4 bundle wasnt available before
C) black friday christmas etc, are when large group of people makes the purchase so again, no way of knowing EXACTLY what drove what percentage of the sales.Sky cant know this, his source cant know this you cant know this and i cant know this.For us to know every purchase would have to be registered with this information .

So someone claiming THEY KNOW what and where is just pulling his info out their bumhole.
Only and simple fact is AMD cards are selling a lot better right now.