Retail Radeon R9 290X cards may be slower than press samples

[eric66]

better cooling can drop power use

here a better hsf on the 290 drops it from 290w to 260w max power use
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2013/r9_290_...est/index7.php

it was obvious anyway but some people just like to troll you know ....

[cowie]

What I did not see in any reviews was not one report of black screens crashes....Did everybody drop the ball on that or is it only me with that issue?

[kromosto]

What I did not see in any reviews was not one report of black screens crashes....Did everybody drop the ball on that or is it only me with that issue?

was the driver at reviews different then you use? it maybe the problem.

[Manicdan]

the post about the fan variation being the problem, its very easy to prove whats going on. just look at noise levels in quiet mode from retail vs review samples. if the retail ones are slower, but quieter, then its a simple variable at play

AMD can actually update drivers and really make this a good thing. offer an option to ADJUST the quiet mode to what you are happy with. if your case in under the table in a cabinet, maybe your quiet mode will be higher than someone else's. with uber mode being nearly identical across different samples, i honeslty do no think this is such a big deal (seems the watercooling discussion is the main thread driver, i ignored most of it. but for me i love using a beefier heatsink or going water, there is a major drop in power consumption on these bigger gpus)

[kl0012]

AMD Radeon R9 290X Press Sample Versus Retail
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-rade...-retail_129583

After much testing we were able to find the performance difference between the press sample and the retail AMD Radeon R9 290X video cards that so many people have been talking about. The performance on both the retail and press card was found to decrease as the ambient case temperature increased, thus confirming that temperature plays a huge roll on these cards when it comes to benchmarking.We then noticed that the BIOS versions were different on the press and retail cards. Many sites have done similar reviews to this, but none that we have seen have mentioned this difference or tried flashing the cards with the same BIOS and testing the cards again. We used ATIWinflash to backup and re-program the cards BIOS and discovered that the BIOS has something to do with this. With the ?quiet? mode press cards BIOS on the retail graphics card we found that the performance was nearly identical and it appears that maybe it wasn?t the card or GPU that was cherry picked, but rather the BIOS was tweaked.

[LordEC911]

AMD Radeon R9 290X Press Sample Versus Retail
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-rade...-retail_129583

Mmmm... still on the witch hunt brought to you by the Nvidia press deck.

[Heinz68]

It should be noted that this performance variance is really only significant in quiet mode as that is when the new AMD PowerTune technology is busy trying to keep the card quiet.

Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-rade...iEOSwyEa463.99

I follow real owners experience on few forums, I have yet to find anybody running the card with Quiet mode BIOS

Also just about every review pointed out the Quiet mode throttling when card was warmed up and using the preset fan speed in Quiet mode. Think there is hardly anything new in this article.

[DeathReborn]

Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-rade...iEOSwyEa463.99

I follow real owners experience on few forums, I have yet to find anybody running the card with Quiet mode BIOS

Also just about every review pointed out the Quiet mode throttling when card was warmed up and using the preset fan speed in Quiet mode. Think there is hardly anything new in this article.

I know of 2 people I work with who ran theirs in Quiet Mode purely because they bought the "best" card according to the salesman and didn't research them. With the appropriate knowledge their views on the card changed from disappointed to satisfied. Forums are generally the preserve of the semi tech savvy consumers and not the ignorant masses. It is a much ado about nothing but does reinforce the need for AMD to spend a few more $$ on cooling high end reference cards.

[Andrew LB]

2) You made it sound like AMD regularly tries to pull fast ones or always has lots of issues, but nvidia, while they have had some, do not usually. I just think your memory is short, or biased. Fermi was a flamethrower, nvidia mobile 7000 series cooked themselves to death regularly,

So in an attempt to distract, you try to equate mistakes and screw-ups with Intentionally deceiving the public by sending reviewers faster than retail cards.


btw... this thread is about AMD. Not nVidia.

[spursindonesia]

So in an attempt to distract, you try to equate mistakes and screw-ups with Intentionally deceiving the public by sending reviewers faster than retail cards.


btw... this thread is about AMD. Not nVidia.

So, showing a dremel sawed video card as a Fermi "sample" in an official press event is part of what you described as "mistakes & screw ups" while a PROVEN case of cooling capacity variation because of varying fan performance of each respective card & its relationship with PWM based fan speed control, as an INTENTIONALLY DECEIVING THE PUBLIC ??

Congrats, have you filled your quota of AMD hate posts today ??

[Sparky]

So in an attempt to distract, you try to equate mistakes and screw-ups with Intentionally deceiving the public by sending reviewers faster than retail cards.


btw... this thread is about AMD. Not nVidia.

You're about a month late on the false "faster card" accusation, but thanks for playing

[Dumo]

Just slap a water block on the gpu and call it a day

[Olivon]

Are retail Radeon R9 290X cards slower than press samples ? - TechReport

Beyond that, I think we've collected enough data to say with confidence that our initial R9 290X review unit, sample 1, is superior to the two retail cards we tested, regardless of the driver or firmware revision. Even with the blower speed fix in place, our first review unit runs at 5-10% higher clock speeds than the retail cards, depending on the workload. That deficit translates into a 5-10% advantage in frame rates, though usually toward the lower end of that range at 4K resolutions. Sample 1 appears to achieve these clock speeds at lower voltages than the retail cards, too.

AMD issues statement on R9 290X speed variability, press samples - TechReport

The range of performance differential is not expected to meaningfully change the user experience but we?ve taken note of recent reports that the degree of variability is higher than expected. Reasonably we would expect the variability to occur both above and below the performance of the press samples, however it appears that most reported performances are biased towards the low side. We are actively investigating these reports and we will update when we have completed our investigation.

Cardz are out since 1 month and AMD is still investigating about the variability problem ?

Keep the good work guyz !

[xBanzai89]

Are retail Radeon R9 290X cards slower than press samples ? - TechReport



AMD issues statement on R9 290X speed variability, press samples - TechReport



Cardz are out since 1 month and AMD is still investigating about the variability problem ?

Keep the good work guyz !

Then something funny happened. We got a call from the folks at Nvidia offering to purchase a couple of retail R9 290X cards for us to test. The cards would be ordered from Newegg and shipped directly to Damage Labs for our scrutiny. The sample size wouldn't be large, only two cards (with boxes still sealed) pulled at random from Newegg's stock, but apparently the green team was confident enough in the likelihood of differences between our review samples and the retail cards to make the purchase. Since we were interested in exploring the question?and a little amused by the prospect of these fierce competitors buying one another's products?we accepted the offer.

Another spin article sponsored by Nvidia. Gasp.

[BababooeyHTJ]

I'm not buying the 10% part on a fixed fan profile. Thats a bit much.

I've seen a 5% difference in clock speed between my two cards before upping power tune. Although I highly doubt that translates to a 5% difference in performance.

[tajoh111]

Another spin article sponsored by Nvidia. Gasp.

I think your trying to spin it into something more malicious in the sense that Nvidia tampered with the cards.

At least techreport was honest how they received the cards. Nvidia only paid for the cards and had the cards directly shipped to techreport from newegg. They didn't have a chance to tamper with the cards.

I'm not buying the 10% part on a fixed fan profile. Thats a bit much.

I've seen a 5% difference in clock speed between my two cards before upping power tune. Although I highly doubt that translates to a 5% difference in performance.

Particularly at lower clocks, 5% clocks does typically 5% performance. At the upper end when your overclocking, that when you stop getting linear gains.

[Final8ty]

I think your trying to spin it into something more malicious in the sense that Nvidia tampered with the cards.

At least techreport was honest how they received the cards. Nvidia only paid for the cards and had the cards directly shipped to techreport from newegg. They didn't have a chance to tamper with the cards.

No one is trying to spin it into NV tampering when it says right there

The cards would be ordered from Newegg and shipped directly to Damage Labs for our scrutiny.

so dont twist things as if we cant read what was said in the article.

What is being implied is yet again NV is pushing hard for AMD issues to be blown to maximum proportions, NV have boosting and variance issues of there own.

[tajoh111]

No one is trying to spin it into NV tampering when it says right there so dont twist things as if we cant read what was said in the article.

What is being implied is yet again NV is pushing hard for AMD issues to be blown to maximum proportions.

Spin article sponsored by Nvidia would imply something underhanded was going on.

The issue is hardly being blown up. They state there could still be a 5-10% variability going on. People have more than enough performance without that 5-10%. However could that 5-10% change a persons perspective in their purchasing decision. A definite possibility.

One things for sure, without reviewers going after this and testing for such anomalies, AMD would have no reason to fix this stuff/use a cheap cooler the next generation. And there is still a real potential that AMD send better cards to reviewers.

If you read the article, it doesn't look so well when they extract the bios from the review sample and put it on the retail sample and the retail sample lost stability from being unable to handle the low voltages/undervolting the review sample could do.

[Final8ty]

Spin article sponsored by Nvidia would imply something underhanded was going on.

Yes that's right and its the blowing the issue out of proportion is whats implied (a matter of opinion) regardless if you disagree with it, it does not mean you can make up your own and put words into others mouth.

[Heinz68]

No one is trying to spin it into NV tampering when it says right there so dont twist things as if we cant read what was said in the article.

What is being implied is yet again NV is pushing hard for AMD issues to be blown to maximum proportions, NV have boosting and variance issues of there own.

Nvidia and the army of Nvidia happy enthusiast.

As I already pointed out

It should be noted that this performance variance is really only significant in quiet mode as that is when the new AMD PowerTune technology is busy trying to keep the card quiet.

Read more about it at LegitReview, definitely not AMD friendly article.

Now tell me would anybody on this forum use the card in Quiet Mode, if they buy the card in the first place? I don't think so.

As always most people having big problem with this, will never experience it in real and yet it looks like they are loosing a lot of sleep over it.

I do worry more about the cards being sold as hot cakes and hardly available at MSRP anywhere. Damn miners.

Maybe I will have to buy Nvidia card after all.

[chispy]

Obviously performance will vary from card to card due to #1 ASIC quality , it is a ( fact ) low ASIC quality cards need more voltage to run at the designed clock speeds, low ASIC quality cards runs way hotter than high quality ASIC cards ( fact ). #2 Memory variance will affect the heat output also ( fact ) Hynix memory runs much cooler than Elpida memory. #3 The finished of the cooler on the base its horrible , is by no means completely flat and some coolers comes with large scratches and dents in the base making not enough contact with the gpu ( fact ). #4 The Thermal compound AMD used is of a bad quality and they use way to much on the GPU making it run hotter and it is applied different on each card ( fact ). #5 Some of the blowers fans used on the cooler exhibit variances in RPMs and airflow due to power input/volts not every blower/fan is the same ( fact ). I am on my fourth R9 290x video card and I have seen it all and tested rigorously , thoroughly all 4 of them. The performance vary from card to card due to all of the above and maybe some more than I don't know. My first Asus card had an ASIC quality of 71.2 very low asic quality and bad Elpida ram and it needed a lot more volts to run at stock speeds , it ran hot as hell , also , this is the only card that have problems with black screen , the other 3 do not black screen at all , it has been the worse overclocker from all of the four cards I have tested , air ,water , Subsero on my cascade @ -108c does not make this bad clocker video card run over 1240Mhz on the core , no matter volts 1.40v + or cooling , and that's using Shamino Bios PT3. My second card I hit the Jackpot , a golden one Sapphire with an ASIC quality of 78.9 very high asic quality , it ran on lower voltage at stock than my first asus dud one , this puppy would run 1230Mhz on stock cooler and 1290Mhz ~ 1300Mhz max on water at only 1.35v , it has Hynix ram and runs cool ( have not tested this card yet subzero as it is a gem and I am saving it for a complete volt mod and to run exclusive on LN2 ) , my third card was 75.7 ASIC quality Gigabyte brand runs average with Elpida Ram. My last one that just came in today has again an ASIC quality of 78.2 , it has a great core it runs very cool and it needs very little voltage to run at 1290Mhz , overclocks very high on the core but it has the worst Ram ever Elpida wont run more than 1425Mhz :/ , this card when I took the stock heatsink / fan off to place an EK H2O block I was in shock to find out the thermal compound on the core was completely dry as dust , never seen thermal compound so dry in my entire life. As you guys can see every card will be , act and perform different around 10% give or take. its a matter of luck to find the good ones out there , ASIC quality 75.5% and up is good , above 78.5% + great and might be a Gem, ASIC quality below 75% not good core , same with ram Hynix memory is the best , it runs cooler and overclock very very high. Elpida rams some are ok not good not bad , some are real Duds and wont bulge for overclocks. I hope those websites posting this BS get their facts straight , they are making it such a huge deal when in reality it is not. I have done very extensive testing since the first day this video cards went retail and I bought 2 the first minute they went on sale at neweeg, tested on stock cooler , normal mode and ubber mode , on water full blocks EK , and subzero at -108c , with different Bios versions , on different benchmarks and games , I have gained enough experience since I play with this video cards every day and know the ins and outs on them , of course im talking as enthusiast and overclocker point of view , this is extreme systems after all , I doubt many of you guys will run the stock cooler in normal mode lol. Well enough information provided by a first hand tester of the 290x. Woow first time I write such a long post , but they are all facts.

Kind Regards: chispy

[Ace123]

I think its hilarious this thread is still going strong while it becomes increasingly difficult to find any decent AMD graphics card in stock, let alone the price gouging that is starting.

[Tim]

I think its hilarious this thread is still going strong while it becomes increasingly difficult to find any decent AMD graphics card in stock, let alone the price gouging that is starting.

Plenty of stock in UK.

[Heinz68]

The point is we don't want pay the UK prices.

[tajoh111]

Obviously performance will vary from card to card due to #1 ASIC quality , it is a ( fact ) low ASIC quality cards need more voltage to run at the designed clock speeds, low ASIC quality cards runs way hotter than high quality ASIC cards ( fact ). #2 Memory variance will affect the heat output also ( fact ) Hynix memory runs much cooler than Elpida memory. #3 The finished of the cooler on the base its horrible , is by no means completely flat and some coolers comes with large scratches and dents in the base making not enough contact with the gpu ( fact ). #4 The Thermal compound AMD used is of a bad quality and they use way to much on the GPU making it run hotter and it is applied different on each card ( fact ). #5 Some of the blowers fans used on the cooler exhibit variances in RPMs and airflow due to power input/volts not every blower/fan is the same ( fact ). I am on my fourth R9 290x video card and I have seen it all and tested rigorously , thoroughly all 4 of them. The performance vary from card to card due to all of the above and maybe some more than I don't know. My first Asus card had an ASIC quality of 71.2 very low asic quality and bad Elpida ram and it needed a lot more volts to run at stock speeds , it ran hot as hell , also , this is the only card that have problems with black screen , the other 3 do not black screen at all , it has been the worse overclocker from all of the four cards I have tested , air ,water , Subsero on my cascade @ -108c does not make this bad clocker video card run over 1240Mhz on the core , no matter volts 1.40v + or cooling , and that's using Shamino Bios PT3. My second card I hit the Jackpot , a golden one Sapphire with an ASIC quality of 78.9 very high asic quality , it ran on lower voltage at stock than my first asus dud one , this puppy would run 1230Mhz on stock cooler and 1290Mhz ~ 1300Mhz max on water at only 1.35v , it has Hynix ram and runs cool ( have not tested this card yet subzero as it is a gem and I am saving it for a complete volt mod and to run exclusive on LN2 ) , my third card was 75.7 ASIC quality Gigabyte brand runs average with Elpida Ram. My last one that just came in today has again an ASIC quality of 78.2 , it has a great core it runs very cool and it needs very little voltage to run at 1290Mhz , overclocks very high on the core but it has the worst Ram ever Elpida wont run more than 1425Mhz :/ , this card when I took the stock heatsink / fan off to place an EK H2O block I was in shock to find out the thermal compound on the core was completely dry as dust , never seen thermal compound so dry in my entire life. As you guys can see every card will be , act and perform different around 10% give or take. its a matter of luck to find the good ones out there , ASIC quality 75.5% and up is good , above 78.5% + great and might be a Gem, ASIC quality below 75% not good core , same with ram Hynix memory is the best , it runs cooler and overclock very very high. Elpida rams some are ok not good not bad , some are real Duds and wont bulge for overclocks. I hope those websites posting this BS get their facts straight , they are making it such a huge deal when in reality it is not. I have done very extensive testing since the first day this video cards went retail and I bought 2 the first minute they went on sale at neweeg, tested on stock cooler , normal mode and ubber mode , on water full blocks EK , and subzero at -108c , with different Bios versions , on different benchmarks and games , I have gained enough experience since I play with this video cards every day and know the ins and outs on them , of course im talking as enthusiast and overclocker point of view , this is extreme systems after all , I doubt many of you guys will run the stock cooler in normal mode lol. Well enough information provided by a first hand tester of the 290x. Woow first time I write such a long post , but they are all facts.

Kind Regards: chispy

How do these things overclock with ln2 or I guess in your case a cascade? How much higher do they get under subzero compared to water? Its seems from what I have seen, water is probably the best overall solution as I haven't seen the huge gains we are used to seeing on 28nm this generation. E.g 1700mhz and up. Has anyone in the hardcore overclocking community gotten higher results. The best I have seen is 1500mhz.

I think what's fueling this crazy demand is all the litecoin mining and various other crypto currencies. Although new cards are effected, its the used market which is effected the most. I have seen a whole lot of WTB threads for 7870 series and up. This mining thing is kind of crazy and is really fortunate for AMD.