Intel Haswell Processors Not Selling Well?

[Zaxx]

"Intel's new architecture "Haswell" (successor of Ivy Bridge on the 22 nm node) has not managed to turn around the declining fortunes of the PC market. While Intel has met most of its promises with Haswell such as energy efficiency, power consumption and graphics, the market uptake for these new processors have not gone as well as planned. I think the major reason for this lack of success is that most user requirements are being met by existing products and users do not require a better processor to run the existing software/services. Unlike the mobile devices market, the rate of innovation in the PC market has been quite pathetic."

Well put but there's one itty bitty 'lil point missing that contributes to lower Haswell sales and that's the fact that you gotta buy a whole new motherboard to run Haswell!! Hello???

Source

[AUST_DeVinE]

the whole new mobo was the killer, considering that haswell was just like getting one extra smartie in a packet in terms of what you got over the last architecture

[stuffme]

Yes, intel went overboard this time around. Expensive prosessor with minor upgrades and clocks badly, no wonder nobody is interested.

[dasa]

new mb doesnt bother me although it kinda does as you can get a good z77mb for ~$110 but the equivalent z87 is ~$180 at the moment

the biggest problem for me is its still a hot 4 core chip with minor performance improvements over sandy\ivy they need to step up the number of cores or ipc some more or even the few people that need extra performance are not interested

[highoctane]

I don't think it has anything to do with new socket considering a vast majority of cpu's are sold for use in new systems to begin with.

My assumption is people with a system built over the last 5 years simply don't feel any need to buy a new computer, there's no compelling reason at all unless you are a hardware enthusiast or power user. Rather than spend that money on another computer that will do what their current system does they have opt'd to spend that money elsewhere.

The most obvious reason that pops to mind for the pc market decline is simply because you no longer need a pc to be connected. The great decline didn't really hit it's stride until the market became saturated with a multitude of devices to connect to the net.

[zanzabar]

can we stop with the whole PC market is dieing articles. the OEM market sells desktops, and the haswel is not even available in most retail stores.

[sdsdv10]

can we stop with the whole PC market is dieing articles. the OEM market sells desktops, and the haswel is not even available in most retail stores.

Agreed Haswell really hasn't made it into OEM system yet in a big way, but make no mistake the PC market is declining.
Check out this article on Q2 2013 shipments: http://allthingsd.com/20130710/lenov...ing-pc-market/

[Piledriver]

Agreed Haswell really hasn't made it into OEM system yet in a big way, but make no mistake the PC market is declining.
Check out this article on Q2 2013 shipments: http://allthingsd.com/20130710/lenov...ing-pc-market/

That's PC vendor sales, who cares, the last time i bought one was two decades ago.

PC unit shipments keep growing, albeit not as fast as before.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1260690


Fact is a low end\mid range cpus are enough for 99% of the people.

[tiro_uspsss]

can we stop with the whole PC market is dieing articles. the OEM market sells desktops, and the haswel is not even available in most retail stores.

+1

also, less whining & whinging about the 'need new mobo for haswell' - THIS IS INTEL'S MAINSTREAM, you knew that, you knew it was coming, so quit ya cryin'! if you don't want to change socket as often, go enthusiast/low-end workstation aka s2011

Complete lack of innovation ( SATA IO, DDR4/Hypercube stacked memory, PCI4, OpenGL 4.3 support, hUMA, 4+ cores, etc... ).

? what are you smoking? DDR4, PCIE4 aren't even out

[jogshy]

? what are you smoking? DDR4, PCIE4 aren't even out

DDR4 was aproved on Sep 1012 .... and Micron has already tons of samples running.
http://www.jedec.org/news/pressrelea...-ddr4-standard
http://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr4-sdram

PCIE4 v0.5 is almost ready, just pending of a small review.
http://blogs.synopsys.com/expressyou...ss-everywhere/

Anyways, you're missing my point: Intel could have waited 6 months and to offer an innovative product instead of a 3% marginal performance increase over Ivy.
I simply won't buy a new computer if it has no DDR4, Sata IO, PCI4, 8 cores, etc... not when these standards are so close... so Haswell for me = sux.
It's all AMD's fault tho. Lack of competition = bad.

[zir_blazer]

Anyways, you're missing my point: Intel could have waited 6 months and to offer an innovative product instead of a 3% marginal performance increase over Ivy.
I simply won't buy a new computer if it has no DDR4, Sata IO, PCI4, 8 cores, etc... not when these standards are so close... so Haswell for me = sux.
It's all AMD's fault tho. Lack of competition = bad.

Where is the "innovation" on that? Most of those wouldn't even bring ANY performance increase at all. What do you want PCI Express 4 for? Because you want MOAR unused Bandwidth for your Video Card? And DDR-4? Well, at least that one might help for IGPs that are bandwidth-starved, but that's assuming you don't have a more powerful discrete GPU, in what case you also don't get anything out of that bandwidth, neither. New standards usually mean that manufacturers will charge a price premium at launch for absolutely nothing, unless you forgot how lackluster DDR-II and DDR-III launchs were, where you were paying much more expensive Motherboards and Memory Modules for NO performance gain.

Intel already had 8 Cores Sandy Bridge-E from 2 years ago, and they were for the high end Xeon line. Ivy Bridge-E has a bigger core count. They're not going to give you big silicon at consumer-affordable prices. Oh, and usually, the more Cores you have, the lower they can clock, so I suppose most gamers would possibily take a 4 GHz Quad Core than a 2 GHz 12-Core because most consumer Software we use can't even make use of all that raw processing power.

[tiro_uspsss]

Where is the "innovation" on that? Most of those wouldn't even bring ANY performance increase at all. What do you want PCI Express 4 for? Because you want MOAR unused Bandwidth for your Video Card?

+1 all the gamers want it, but keep forgetting the facts.........:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7089/g...ie-2-vs-pcie-3

[jogshy]

Where is the "innovation" on that? Most of those wouldn't even bring ANY performance increase at all. What do you want PCI Express 4 for? Because you want MOAR unused Bandwidth for your Video Card?

For the new NWMe raid PCI SSDs?
http://www.techpowerup.com/187355/sa...terprises.html

For 4k-15Gbs Thunderbolt 2.0 external devices?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7049/i...u-need-to-know

And Infiniband networks for servers
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06..._ethernet_isc/

etc etc etc

Intel already had 8 Cores Sandy Bridge-E from 2 years ago, and they were for the high end Xeon line. Ivy Bridge-E has a bigger core count.

Yep, but I want a Hasswell desktop with 8 cores, 16 threads and no lame IGP graphics inside... for less than 300$, doubling the speed (100%) and 24/7 overclocking potential(50%) of the previous generation as happened in the past, not a 3-10% for new gens as Intel want to sell us. No innovation, no overlock, that stupid cheap TIM policy, the USB3 bug, etc... Intel is just playing with the comsumers because AMD's is simply not pushing enough pressure. We have no real option.

I just hope NVIDIA Denver with 16-cores, 3 Ghz+, Hypercube memory, 1TFlop ARM Cortex A57 64bits could remedy this soon ...

[BababooeyHTJ]

+1

also, less whining & whinging about the 'need new mobo for haswell' - THIS IS INTEL'S MAINSTREAM, you knew that, you knew it was coming, so quit ya cryin'! if you don't want to change socket as often, go enthusiast/low-end workstation aka s2011

Why? s2011 isn't even any faster than my cheap 3570k in many applications.

I think many more enthusiasts would feel like upgrading whether they needed it or not if the right performance leap was there.

I agree

[mutantmagnet]

can we stop with the whole PC market is dieing articles. the OEM market sells desktops, and the haswel is not even available in most retail stores.

The desktop PC market has been contracting year over year. OEMs have been retooling their factories to the point that now most of them make more components for tablet form factor than anything else.

[Zaxx]

It seems to me that the power of a 'mainstream' PC has reached a point were it can do pretty much everything people and do it fairly fast and then 3x faster if they're using an SSD to boot from. Looking backward from Haswell, we've seen nothing but modest ~12 to 18 percent per launch. Given such mediocre gains, forcing a new chipset on top of it all was a huge mistake imo. Also...for the first time that I can recall, Intel strayed from their tried, true and tested 'Tick - Tock' launch strategy...and now we see the results.

From a storage standpoint (cuz I'm an SSD fanatic) everyone will have to wait another 1 1/2 years until Intel launches the next Sata protocol, 'Sata Express' with the Z97/X99 chipsets/mobos. Think it's safe to say that we are gonna see a bit of competition between the PCI-E sata/raid controller cards...using the 4x slot of course. There's actually an affordable and decent one already out...only 2 sata6 ports but also 2 eSata and it's bootable with uefi bios akaik! I think we may have already discussed a HighPoint 600 based affordable raid card, but since this is a '2nd. Gen.' card that HighPoint is making a bit of fuss about it's probably worth another visit. (fwiw it's now sporting a Marvell 9235 raid controller!)

HighPoint 2nd Gen. 642L at NewEgg

and here's the

640L

The 640 has 4 Sata6 port but it's a 'software raided' card and is also not bootable afaik. But, it's a HighPoint 4 sata6 ports with raid via pci-e 4x for $69 free shipping!

[kuroikenshi]

HighPoint 2nd Gen. 642L at NewEgg

and here's the

640L

The 640 has 4 Sata6 port but it's a 'software raided' card and is also not bootable afaik. But, it's a HighPoint 4 sata6 ports with raid via pci-e 4x for $69 free shipping!

It's only Seriat ATA III with 6Gb/s, I did not see Serial ATA VI, I think you're a little bit confused, Serial ATA 6Gb/s has been the standard for a few years now, Same for Serial Attached SCSI. Any low end motherboard (Sandy/ivy)has the same throughput outlined by you with those two products.

Even though the cards are PCI-e the max bandwith per Serial ATA Drive is 6Gb/s.

Still, all these standards are mostly derived from the enterprise market which sets the pace for advancements.

TBH I am not sure what was the relevance of the whole SSD argument and Intel's Haswell.

[Iconyu]

It's only Seriat ATA III with 6Gb/s, I did not see Serial ATA VI, I think you're a little bit confused, Serial ATA 6Gb/s has been the standard for a few years now, Same for Serial Attached SCSI. Any low end motherboard (Sandy/ivy)has the same throughput outlined by you with those two products.

Even though the cards are PCI-e the max bandwith per Serial ATA Drive is 6Gb/s.

Still, all these standards are mostly derived from the enterprise market which sets the pace for advancements.

TBH I am not sure what was the relevance of the whole SSD argument and Intel's Haswell.

He's not talking about SATA IV, he's talking about SATA Express vs cheap raid cards.

[tiro_uspsss]

He's not talking about SATA IV, he's talking about SATA Express vs cheap raid cards.

apparently there won't even be a SATA4:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...gbps,3523.html

[R101]

Haswell will boom in laptops.. Who would buy it for desktop (except me for trying out AVX2 support )?

[fellix_bg]

Intel have no incentive to go beyond 4 cores on its mainstream platform. First, they are already heavily invested in a top performing CPU architecture with high IPC and secondary, the push for better and better IGP eats into the die-area budget with every generation. On top of that, the race for ever more power efficiency and system integration diverts a lot of R&D too. Until AMD makes a miracle, the situation won't change.

[jogshy]

Selling very bad because:

1. New socket 1150
2. Marginal performance improvement over Ivy Bridge. Complete lack of innovation ( SATA IO, DDR4/Hypercube stacked memory, PCI4, OpenGL 4.3 support, hUMA, 4+ cores, etc... ).
3. Same past errors: TIM overheat, USB3 suspend bug, etc...
4. PC market declining in favor of mobile devices where ARM is the king.
5. AMD's APU have much better integrated graphics.

[nossy23]

Is anyone even surprised by this? I got a 2600K which I normally would have upgraded. I used to buy a new CPU every 1 or 2 years. But Intel refuses to make something new that is a meaningful upgrade for desktop users. They are only looking at AMD who are way behind, instead of looking how they can develop the market which is what they should be doing, being the market leader they are. They are dragging their feet in so many ways: features of chipsets get upgraded very slowly (number of native USB3 ports, SATA ports etc), clockspeed of CPU stays about the same, no extra cores, no big IPC improvements etc etc etc I hope this should teach them a lesson, but I doubt it. They will just see it as another proof that their choice was right and that the future is only in mobile stuff. I for one have been spending just as much on my computer as I used to. Only, the money did not go to Intel. I bought a racing wheel, new monitor, Geforce Titan etc I will not buy a new Intel CPU + motherboard until they come up with something that is a real upgrade.

[El Mano]

I would buy a 4770k if it was compatible with my 1155 socket.
Z87 brings nothing new worth scrapping my Z77 mobo.

[Dami3n]

I would buy a 4770k if it was compatible with my 1155 socket.
Z87 brings nothing new worth scrapping my Z77 mobo.

Same here. I don't see any reason to change my little MVG. Haswell brings nothing really new and interesting to the table for desktop users.