Intel Haswell Processors Not Selling Well?

[mattkosem]

Intel needs to introduce a new form factor (All in one for example) or trying make ITX more popular. They may only be a chip producer, but are relient on the image of the PC as a total. 70% of computers sold are laptops and only 30% desktop pc's. It has been obvious for years people don't want to buy a scary grey box, external monitor and allot of cables. I just build myself a mini-ITX gaming rig with a Asus GTX670 Mini and am absolutely convinced big rigs (ATX or M-ATX) are not necessary for the average user. Downsizing could make desktops more popular again.

They already have. It's called the NUC, and doesn't seem to be very popular.

--Matt

[tiro_uspsss]

At least Ivy introduced some new features like pci-e 3.0. That'll give you a little boost with something like GTX780 sli. It can also be used for 8x/4x/4x with crossfire on a reasonably priced motherboard like the UD5h. I wish that Nvidia allowed this.

hardly, if at all:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7089/g...ie-2-vs-pcie-3

[Aberration]

They already have. It's called the NUC, and doesn't seem to be very popular.

--Matt

Those are quite a bit smaller.

[onewingedangel]

Any chance that the Haswell desktop refresh could be socketed Crystalwell parts?

Would increase CPU and GPU performance much like a normal uArch refresh.

[informal]

Any chance that the Haswell desktop refresh could be socketed Crystalwell parts?

Would increase CPU and GPU performance much like a normal uArch refresh.

I doubt that. It will most likely be 4770K+one speed bin.

[BababooeyHTJ]

hardly, if at all:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7089/g...ie-2-vs-pcie-3

Thats an X79 board with much more available bandwith. A review with GTX780 sli at x8/x8 pci-e 2.0 vs x8/x8 pci-e 3.0 would be far more relevant.

[tiro_uspsss]

Thats an X79 board with much more available bandwith. A review with GTX780 sli at x8/x8 pci-e 2.0 vs x8/x8 pci-e 3.0 would be far more relevant.

then it wouldn't be a question of PCIE revision, but instead the number of lanes out right, ie 8 vs 16

[BababooeyHTJ]

then it wouldn't be a question of PCIE revision, but instead the number of lanes out right, ie 8 vs 16

I don't see how that is the case. Haswell and Ivy bridge have more pci-e bandwith than past mainstream sockets. Thats the point that I've been trying to make.

Every mainstream socket since 1156 has had no more than 8x/8x without some sort of expensive bridge chip.

[Rob94hawk]

If anything, I would say the blame partially lies with Microsoft's disastrous Windows 8 OS alienating a good portion of their user base. People love Haswell. Everyone hates Haswell + Windows 8.

That's why I did Haswell + Windows 7.

[STEvil]

I don't see how that is the case. Haswell and Ivy bridge have more pci-e bandwith than past mainstream sockets. Thats the point that I've been trying to make.

Every mainstream socket since 1156 has had no more than 8x/8x without some sort of expensive bridge chip.

With just two cards in SLI its not an issue. Dig up Vega's quad-sli benchmarks to see what it took to max out PCI-E 2.x vs PCI-E 3.

[BababooeyHTJ]

With just two cards in SLI its not an issue. Dig up Vega's quad-sli benchmarks to see what it took to max out PCI-E 2.x vs PCI-E 3.

Again, we're talking about native x8 speed here. Thats a completely different platform with more available lanes plus a bridge chip, the results don't tell us much about this native 8x/8x on Intel's mainstream platform. Wizzard did some tests on lesser video cards than we have on the market now back when Ivy launched. I think that those results are far more relevant to this discussion.

This socket isn't a replacement for LGA2011.

It looks like in some games with a stock 7970 or GTX680 you're just starting to run into pci-e limitations at pci-e 2.0 x8. I would be willing to bet that there will be more of a difference with an overclocked titan or 780 especially in sli. Not a huge difference but another few percent. Its something to look at.

[BHD]

HI

Guys,

Question: BroadWell-D , Do Support DDR4 ?

[cx-ray]

HI

Guys,

Question: BroadWell-D , Do Support DDR4 ?

My understanding is Haswell-E will support DDR4. I think it'd be fair to assume that the Haswell LGA 1150 refresh will too.

[tiro_uspsss]

HI

Guys,

Question: BroadWell-D , Do Support DDR4 ?

what is broadwell-D?

My understanding is Haswell-E will support DDR4. I think it'd be fair to assume that the Haswell LGA 1150 refresh will too.

just read earlier this week Haswell-E supports DDR3 & DDR4
& that broadwell mainstream will not have DDR4 - skylake mainstream will

[Mechromancer]

I would buy a 4770k if it was compatible with my 1155 socket.
Z87 brings nothing new worth scrapping my Z77 mobo.

I second this! Haswell actually made me want to build a second AMD rig just to spite them.

[geo]

The reality is outside of high end gaming there is no reason to upgrade the CPU. Intel isn't pushing the envelop with features or more cores either. and where Intel trying with NUC or Thin ITX, Its just nor powerful or feature rich enough to interest the consumer or the even the prosumer /gaming crowd

[Levish]

The reality is outside of high end gaming there is no reason to upgrade the CPU. Intel isn't pushing the envelop with features or more cores either. and where Intel trying with NUC or Thin ITX, Its just nor powerful or feature rich enough to interest the consumer or the even the prosumer /gaming crowd

since Penryn / Conroe its been 0-10% boost at most annually, Scaling has gotten pretty good though, my first chip barely broke 3.0 Ghz and today we have chips that break 5Ghz with similar or slightly better IPC although (speaking on air at "reasonable volts")

[BHD]

Broadwell is expected to launch in three major forms
Desktop version (LGA1150 socket): Broadwell-D
Mobile/laptop version (PGA socket): Broadwell-M

[grndzro]

There is no reason to upgrade for current quad core intel processors. Any core 2 quad with DDR3 overclocked can handle pretty much anything out right now.
And with the move to heavily threaded games designed for XB1/PS4 AMD's new Steamroller will trump any intel quad core.

[zalbard]

And with the move to heavily threaded games designed for XB1/PS4 AMD's new Steamroller will trump any intel quad core.

Unlikely.

[informal]

4770K is just 17% faster than 8350 . 8T SR at similar clock(or tad lower) than 8350 would have no problems trumping 4770K, stock vs stock, but there is no 8T Kaveri or SR based FX on any roadmap yet . Remember that 4770K has very aggressive Turbo that is also engaged in multithreaded workloads(so you are looking at 8T Haswell running C11.5 at clocks close to 4Ghz, between 3.7 and 3.9Ghz). Also note that both 8350 and 4770K (SR based hypothetical 8T chip too) all have 4 FP units (dual threaded).

[grndzro]

4770K is just 17% faster than 8350 . 8T SR at similar clock(or tad lower) than 8350 would have no problems trumping 4770K, stock vs stock, but there is no 8T Kaveri or SR based FX on any roadmap yet . Remember that 4770K has very aggressive Turbo that is also engaged in multithreaded workloads(so you are looking at 8T Haswell running C11.5 at clocks close to 4Ghz, between 3.7 and 3.9Ghz). Also note that both 8350 and 4770K (SR based hypothetical 8T chip too) all have 4 FP units (dual threaded).

FP will be irrelevant soon. it will be done as Opencl on the GPU's

[stuffme]

FP will be irrelevant soon. it will be done as Opencl on the GPU's

This I've been waiting for long time now. Maybe the excavator will change things?

[geo]

4770K is just 17% faster than 8350 . 8T SR at similar clock(or tad lower) than 8350 would have no problems trumping 4770K, stock vs stock, but there is no 8T Kaveri or SR based FX on any roadmap yet . Remember that 4770K has very aggressive Turbo that is also engaged in multithreaded workloads(so you are looking at 8T Haswell running C11.5 at clocks close to 4Ghz, between 3.7 and 3.9Ghz). Also note that both 8350 and 4770K (SR based hypothetical 8T chip too) all have 4 FP units (dual threaded).

Based on what we know now, Steamroller looks a lot like the CPU Bulldozer should've been. AMD is claiming a 15% performance/watt improvement, and that figure makes sense given what we've seen today. The good news is that another 15% definitely moves things forward for AMD. Trinity's major achievement was its ability to deliver Llano-equivalent performance at moderately less power; Steamroller should finally pull ahead of the old K10 architecture in clock-to-clock efficiency. That's critical -- AMD needs to strengthen its single-thread performance if it wants to compete with Intel in mobile markets.

The downside is that another 15% won't really change competitive positioning. Steamroller's raw performance may match Sandy Bridge, but it's unlikely to compete well against IVB or Haswell.

http://hothardware.com/News/AMDs-Nex...er-Fell-Short/

[informal]

IB or Haswell are miniscule x86 performance jumps over SB. What did increase dramatically with each of those is iGPU performance and AMD needs to put up a good showing there. I'm not worried for x86 part of the perf. story, it should be solid bump over PD (unless it clocks REALLY low for the same TDP when compared to Richland).