IVY E uses solder tim as expected, see delidded (and killed) 4960X with solder tim

[rge]

Thread here, Toppc (same guy that typically posts engineering sample specs long before NDA are up, ie like he did with 4770K), delidded his Ivy E eng sample 4960x, killing cpu in process as he had to pry solder apart (he believed the nonsensical internet rumor of cant solder 22nm, ie thought it was paste). You can clearly see the solder, amongst his ranting that someone spreading rumors about paste tim owes him another cpu.

http://translate.google.com/translat...25E5%258B%2592

[Aberration]

Hahahaha!!!

[Evantaur]

shouldn't laugh

but this is hilarious

[zalbard]

in before rollo "im sure even in that state is faster then anything amd makes"

Nice job getting personal on an unrelated topic.

[El Mano]

History of science, trial and... total fail ha ha ha

[Zaxx]

ROFL! Even if it woulda had TIM, who'd risk it with such a nice chip?

[Ace123]

rough go, but soldered spreader is very good for the community.

[informal]

That's such a shame . It's a beast of a chip, might have been useful for many good purposes. Only a key chain material now

[AzureSky]

but how hot will it run........and will it blend?

[tool_462]

ROFL! Even if it woulda had TIM, who'd risk it with such a nice chip?

He probably has a tray of them at this point.

[Xazax]

Ah this is good news I was hoping they wouldnt screw the high end....

[Chickenfeed]

This is good news.

Does anyone have any concrete reason why Intel skipped solder on Ivy and Haswell by the way? It can't possibly add that much cost and time to the process can it?

[rintamarotta]

I think the reason Ivy LGA1155 and Haswell 1150 are not soldered is that smaller core is too fragile to solder.
Ivy-E and Haswell-E have much bigger cores and due that are not too fragile as Ivy and Haswell to solder.

[Chickenfeed]

I've see various opinion's on the topic so far but many seem to suggest that the die's integrity shouldn't be the issue. It sounds plausible to me though. Would be nice if someone in the semi conductor industry or better yet Intel themselves had something to say on the matter.

Things will only get smaller and denser from here on out and given Ivy and Haswell, I'd HATE to see 14nm running TIM...

[rge]

If your really interested you cant send an inquiry to intel indium solder, they sell solder attaches for all die sizes, including dies smaller than Haswell or Ivy, as do many others. And both Haswell and Ivy are soldered, they are soldered to the PCB, they just dont have solder for tim as well. Cost/yield vs need. If you look at prices for indium solder vs paste per units on intels indium site, it isnt small, and multiple that x numbers sold, and factor in NO one needs solder on Ivy or Haswell if running at stock, like 99.9% will do.

Would be nice for K's to be soldered, but just dont see that ever happening, unless stock specs warrant it.

And solder isnt the only high thermal conductive attach, there are better and worse, tim is just cheapest.

[B_Boy]

I call bull, he killed that before he "delidded" it, he broke half of the little chips off! and THAT amount of solder on it? really? must be a pretty decent heat gun to melt the solder through the IHS...

[ajaidev]

He probably has a tray of them at this point.

Doesn't work like that at least i never got more than the one that also depending on availability of ES. They are limited in number and are shared no point in keeping all in a tray for a guy to destroy.

[PatRaceTin]

i would skip this gen waiting for H-E new 2011-3 socket + DDR4

[PedantOne]

I think the reason Ivy LGA1155 and Haswell 1150 are not soldered is that smaller core is too fragile to solder.
Ivy-E and Haswell-E have much bigger cores and due that are not too fragile as Ivy and Haswell to solder.

bingo!

[zir_blazer]

bingo!

I don't think than what rintamarotta said is the actual reason. I totally agree with rge.

If Intel can get away by using cheaper grease on Desktops Ivy Bridge/Haswell, why would they solder it if its not needed on the first place? Reducing the bill of materials, they increase profit per unit, and they can do it, so why not? Makes sense to me. Even on other eras, solder was also reserved almost exclusively to high end products or that were at the top end of what their node allowed where solder was one of the things that made such a product possible, something that LGA 1150 Ivy Bridges and Haswell are NOT. Only with the original Conroe Intel overdid it with both solder and an overspecced cooling solution that allowed high overclocks even with stock cooling, and maybe with Sandy Bridge, too.
Besides, there is a misconception regarding on the fact that the K series should be soldered because they're intended for enthusiasts. The only thing that Intel does manufacturing-side with the K series, is probabily changing a single write-once bit that to unlock the multiplier, and charging you 20 U$Ds more for that. If they're successfull in this market only doing that, again, why are they going to spend more resources just to please you? Intel runs a business, not charity, and their business track record always included sky-high profit margings for reasons like this.

[Kallenator]

I call bull, he killed that before he "delidded" it, he broke half of the little chips off! and THAT amount of solder on it? really? must be a pretty decent heat gun to melt the solder through the IHS...

Those little chips are ceramic capacitors(looks like 0402 size), and the reason they broke of is because like you mention the amount of solder that needs to be melted, so I bet some prying and quite a a substantial amount of heat was applied. It's very hard to control this process of removal if you don't have some kind of specialized equipment that aid you, so the temperature on the die during disassembly probably well exceeded the specifications. Not to mention that this really isn't designed to come apart anyways...

[rge]

bingo!

Wa are now on one year old 22nm production from Ivy, and situation is worst with Haswell. It seems not better for HSW-E

PS. 22nm cant be soldered, sorry ...
PS2. Westmere was not soldered too, and was a problem?

you stated in other thread that 22nm cant be soldered, above is your post. Now you have been proven wrong via IVY E is soldered. So now your claiming saying small dies cant be soldered...really?

Why dont you post some link or info from intel...though you cant since this was started by someone guessing maybe that is why intel didnt solder them, then someone, including you, took that internet supposition for fact.

So lets see your source, or are you just agreeing it is just an internet rumor.

[Kallenator]

We have been over this several times, and it only takes one person that does not understand or have no knowledge of Surface-Mount-Technology to come up with bad information like this.

The Haswell chips that have been soldered to the PCB's you find in mobile devices like laptops are BGA type packages, these go through what we call Reflow Soldering, which includes a multi zoned precise oven with a built in conveyor belt. The thermal profile of how these chips should be soldered can be found on Intel's website, they weren't published last time I saw, but you could always E-Mail them and ask for it.
Let me also say this: With few exceptions today most electronics follow the RoHS standard of not using Lead in the solder paste, now if the product could not follow this specification (within the most used thermal profiles) we would have quite the uproar from several large manufacturers who would either need to reevaluate large parts of the production cycle or split it up to comply with the new guide lines. If anything, this would cause a headline.

So for now, whenever anyone mentions this without a source: Ignore the troll and move along =)

This is what they look like from the top and bottom:
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-conten...ga-640x510.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflow_soldering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoHS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_grid_array
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_chip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9SWNLZvA8g

[tool_462]

Doesn't work like that at least i never got more than the one that also depending on availability of ES. They are limited in number and are shared no point in keeping all in a tray for a guy to destroy.

I used to get 6 of each stepping as they came out, no email, no message, just a package at the door. See my sig...

I had a sort of "hook up" though of course.

[Toolius]

^i hate you
My nickname is tool !