Retail Versions of Intel Core i ?Haswell? Are ?Hotter and Slower? Than Expected

[kl0012]

I'm tired of seeing this. A CPU does not emit meaningful amounts of EM energy (radio, visible light, etc) nor does it emit sound or move. Virtually all power consumed by the processor is converted into heat energy. More power = more heat. Heat isn't the same thing as temperature (heat is volume, temperature is density), however, so perhaps that is where the confusion lies.

Speaking about self-heating, according to Joule's first law the heat generated due to electrical current flow through the wire depends on physical characteristics of the wire. So its not right to say "More power = more heat" when comparing systems which have different physical characteristics.

[mAJORD]

No. Particle is right. For all intents and purposes, a CPU presents a purely resistive load. Power in = heat. end of story.

Also right about the 'temperature' confusion. See it all the time.

[STaRGaZeR]

I find disturbing the huge amount of BS and stupidity this thread contains

[prava]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat

In physics and chemistry, heat is energy transferred from one body to another by thermal interactions.

Basicaly it says that heat is function of thermal interface.



Although I see word "heat" there it has nothing to do with "power consumption = more heat"

Speaking about self-heating, according to Joule's first law the heat generated due to electrical current flow through the wire depends on physical characteristics of the wire. So its not right to say "More power = more heat" when comparing systems which have different physical characteristics.

Look, energy doesn't vanish. It only transforms. Where do you think the 60W a processor eats goes? There is no movement, no radio, no micro-waves, no nothing. It ALL (well, 99,9%) gets transformed into heat.

Your example of the wire makes absolutely no sense at all since the wire isn't making any use of the power... its simply a way of putting together different parts (the one that creates the power, and the one that requires it). In this case, the CPU is the part that EATS the power, not the transport of any sorts.

Heck, I don't think this is that difficult to understand. Energy in = energy out. What goes out from a cpu?

[blindbox]

kl0012:
Seriously, here's one of those times that wiki is NOT the best place for your information source. Look at the talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:He...mental_blunder.

Plus, if heat is already defined as the transfer of energy from a hotpoint to a cold point, what the hell is heat transfer?

[jogshy]

Anybody know if the IHS is soldered to the die or is Intel using the fkng thermal paste system as did for Ivy?

[LordEC911]

Well this isn't always true, IB prove this, when the best chips in cold were the ones doing 5GHz with ~1.2v and lower on air, so chips with low leakage.

Those aren't low leakage chips...

Anybody know if the IHS is soldered to the die or is Intel using the fkng thermal paste system as did for Ivy?

Seems to be TIM.
Not sure if this is retail or not...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...K-IHS-Removals

[LiquidReactor]

Sandy >>> Ivy >>> Haswell

Continued downgrade in oc ability.

[st0ned]

Those aren't low leakage chips...

Yes they are. Those chips were much cooler then the average IB running on the same air cooler. And by getting such frequency with so low volts they are, without a doubt, low leakage chips.

[Lightman]

Sandy >>> Ivy >>> Haswell

Continued downgrade in oc ability.

At least AMD is going in the right direction with Llano <<< Trinity <<< Richland and Thuban <<< Bulldozer <<< Piledriver!
Now if they only can catch up a bit on IPC front and keep TDP at reasonable levels it will be good for overclockers.

[R101]

Intel's OC started falling away since moving to 22 nm. We have yet to see AMD cpu on 22..

[PatRaceTin]

Anybody got a golden Haswell yet ?

[informal]

I heard of one user hitting 4.9Ghz with relatively reasonable vcore and WC setup. Most are getting ~4.3-4.4Ghz on air/WC with very high temps...

[Gunslinger]

The first 2 Malay's I've tested did 4.6 + 4.7 at 1.25V on air through 3DMark '06 CPU tests, have not done any 24/7 type testing yet.

Holding out hope for the 3rd one that is enroute, if it's another dud, I'm going to wait for the Costa Rica chips to appear before trying any more.

[LiquidReactor]

I wonder if this is the reason. Intel still having issues with 22nm production despite newly update manufacturing process.

Virtually everyone who has reviewed Haswell has acknowledge that all it brings is a minute improvement in CPU performance and that the laptop version has a nice bump in GPU performance. The reviewers were kind enough to not state that Haswell is a lateral move for Intel's product line much like Ivy Bridge is. Very weak improvements in performance even with the smaller node and FinFET technology.

BTW FinFET is what's causing the heat issues just as it does with Ivy Bridge. Intel abandoned the FinFet process used on Ivy Bridge because of the heat issues and now Haswell with a new FinFET process still has heat issues. Intel is not looking too good these days in the CPU/APU biz.