ASUS Z87 Motherboards - Overview, Guides and Official Support

[Raja@ASUS]

Question for Raja@ASUS: you mentioned on page 10 of this thread that if you are if you are using only two memory modules use the red slots which does go against what the manual for the Maximus VI Extreme says.

Is that what you recommend regardless of the memory speed or module size?

Use the red slots - manual is misleading on that. T-topology routing for this gen favors the red slots (1&3) over the black.

[Raja@ASUS]

Please, can you confirm whether Gene and Hero uses exactly same configs, it mentions 115dB SNR on Gene but says nada about Hero why I get a little suspicious. I hope noise-wise they are pretty the same as I'd prefer Hero slightly if both was the same but if Gene was even slightly better (even say 1dB lower THD Noise for example), I'd go for Gene... :P Don't expect you to know about this but if you happen to know, then please share as then I might be able to decide which one to purchase sooner.

Gene uses a different layout/op-amp. Will get full specifics later.

[djt]

Use the red slots - manual is misleading on that. T-topology routing for this gen favors the red slots (1&3) over the black.

Thanks again for the help and quick response.

[Raja@ASUS]

Please, can you confirm whether Gene and Hero uses exactly same configs, it mentions 115dB SNR on Gene but says nada about Hero why I get a little suspicious. I hope noise-wise they are pretty the same as I'd prefer Hero slightly if both was the same but if Gene was even slightly better (even say 1dB lower THD Noise for example), I'd go for Gene... :P Don't expect you to know about this but if you happen to know, then please share as then I might be able to decide which one to purchase sooner.

Gene has an opamp buffer (TI 4580), the Hero doesn't. The buffer should make the output a bit more linear at frequency extremes and aid a bit in noise reduction on the output of the ALC 1150 (differential input CMRR of the 4580 is circa 80dB).

-Raja

[RPGWiZaRD]

Gene has an opamp buffer (TI 4580), the Hero doesn't. The buffer should make the output a bit more linear at frequency extremes and aid a bit in noise reduction on the output of the ALC 1150 (differential input CMRR of the 4580 is circa 80dB).

-Raja

Thanks for the quick response, you rock! It was exactly like I suspected then, Gene having an opamp and Hero doesn't. But it doesn't totally make it easier for me to decide though, I will be using my own "amp" (it's a bit special amp design why it shouldn't be treated as a traditional one, being fully analog design for example) and it also makes the EMI noise a bit louder (unacceptably loud on this new Z87 ASRock board I got). My biggest priority would be getting as low EMI noise interfearence as possible, this is by far the number one priority in my case. That's where I don't know whether having an onboard opamp is more beneficial or destructive as from my experience with at least external amps, they tend to increase the volume of the noise unless you have some more expensier ones which filters out the noise. I'm not either any guru on these things so can't really theoretically say how it should work.

But I'm thinking logically; ALC889A which I had with my previous socket setup didn't have any onboard opamp and noise was MUUUUCH LOWER than on the ASRock Extreme6 (featuring ALC1150 + TI NE5532 opamp) however in the ASRock case I doubt the difference lie in the opamp alone but yea it gives food for thought...

Have you like any ideas about these things or is able to get further info about it whether Gene or Hero should be having lower EMI noise interfearence (buzzing, popping, chirping sound due to HDD, mouse activity, high system load etc), at least on the paper. This would be so much appriciated, ordering one of these boards will take some while here when I'm from Finland, neither am I too keen on testing both Gene and Hero to find out... I'd just wanna get a board with acceptably low onboard chip EMI noise interfearence so I can totally forget that and focus on overclocking and actually enjoying my new setup without having to pull my hair out. Ty

[Raja@ASUS]

I'll elaborate a bit on my previous response - the answer you seek is kinda in there, but it's brief.

It depends where the EMI is entering the system from. Note I said noise on the outputs of the chipset to the opamp. A differential pair will reject any noise that is common on both signal lines. That's why the figure is quoted as CMRR - the common mode rejection ratio. So if noise is bleeding into the system at some point between the chipset and the op-amp side, if it is common mode, the op-amp should reject a lot of it.

Differential signals pairs are closely routed so that any spurious or noise on the lines remains as close to identical as possible on the pair - as the differential input is only concerned on the potential difference between the pair, noise that is common on both sides is rejected. In an ideal sense, you'd keep the signal in the differential domain as long as possible while routing, before single ended conversion, because of the CMRR of differential signaling.

One has to bear in mind that CMRR is cumulative throughout a system - the CMRR of the chipset and opamps and the ripple rejection of active power regulation are all additive. Pushing noise down lower outside audible range. But, we are only talking about noise that has bled through into the system prior to these devices and particular types of noise (frequency matters as specified noise rejection of active devices is frequency dependent, with lower rejection at higher frequency).

If the noise is entering the chain towards the output side of the circuit then that's a different story. However, good layout, careful shielding and decoupling should prevent most of the noise being audible. I can't speculate more than that as environmental effects will vary from system to system. PCs are noisy environments at the best of times.

-Raja

[RPGWiZaRD]

What I'm curious to know is if the noise is entering the audio chain AFTER the opamp and before the analog output which I'm suspecting is happening on the ASRock board, will the noise be further amplified by the opamp then too and it would give me less issues if there wasn't an opamp in there in that case? connecting my external headphone amp to the onboard it's got way more audible EMI noise at equal output volume (higher amp vol setting) and lower onboard audio volume compared to no amp with higher onboard volume for similar percieved levels. I'm obviously interested if the opamp will do the same in that case, then I might be better off without opamp.

[Raja@ASUS]

If the op-amp is in unity-gain then I don't see why it would be any worse than the voltage outputs of the chipset. No clear cut answers to your questions unfortunately. You'll never know for sure, you may get less noise or no noise with a good onboard audio solution or soundcard, but you'll never know til you try it. As it's a deal breaker of sorts to you, you need to make a decision on whether you want to take this out of the equation and save from the concern of it all for good and I can think of one way to do that; get an external DAC that is not susceptible to PC noise.

Can't help you any more than that, sorry.

-Raja

[RPGWiZaRD]

If the op-amp is in unity-gain then I don't see why it would be any worse than the voltage outputs of the chipset. No clear cut answers to your questions unfortunately. You'll never know for sure, you may get less noise or no noise with a good onboard audio solution or soundcard, but you'll never know til you try it. As it's a deal breaker of sorts to you, you need to make a decision on whether you want to take this out of the equation and save from the concern of it all for good and I can think of one way to do that; get an external DAC that is not susceptible to PC noise.

Can't help you any more than that, sorry.

-Raja

It's okay, you already helped a lot and wasn't expecting you to be able to provide a clear response on this matter to begin with. Why I'm caring so much about the onboard sound chip though is that I've actually tried several 3rd party solutions like ASUS Xonar D2, Titanium HD and even the new flagship Creative card SoundBlaster ZxR card, yet I keep returning to onboard, there is just something about the soundstaging and positioning that works so well for me if using 5.1 speaker config with headphones. The ZxR no matter how I set it up sounds so much closed-in in comparison despite I ofc acknowledge it has very nice quality especially in the midfrequencies, still it's like you win some and you lose some so for that much price it's unacceptable. So basically I can't buy what I want! What I'd buy in a heartbeat would be paying for the best possible ALC1150 solution (good quality caps, switchable opamps etc) on a separate addon card (to avoid EMI noise!), I would even pay $50 for such addon Realtek card haha xD

Anyway in my case, the best thing is to wait for the review on the Gene board by cadaveca (I think it was spelled like that? lol) here who already reviewed the Hero and Extreme6 that I sit with currently as he will be testing with the same settings under the same environment and he happens to care about the sound too being a musician so he has some better insight into it than the typical overclocker/gamer focused reviewer at least... then I'd pick based on his feedback & measurement.

[Raja@ASUS]

I can relate to some of that. I have a mix of tube and solid state gear here and they all have different flavors. For driving my HD800 headphones, I like using the Essence One with MUSES op-amps or using my 3A5 dual triode DAC output stage with amorphous transformers. For stereo output i use 300B SE amps driving open baffle speakers. We all have different tastes and needs.

[Pants-Of-Fire]

Z87-Pro has an update for AI-Charger:

Ai Charger+ Update Pack V1.00.00 for Windows 7/8 32bit & 64bit.
Ai Charger+ Update Pack V1.00.00 for Windows 7/8 32bit & 64bit.
Note: If your Ai Charger+ version is 3.01.00, please install this Update Pack

However, whenever I try to install this on my Win7 64 system, I get "your operating system does not support this update". Has anyone managed to get this installed, or has Asus put the wrong/bugged file up?

Looks like the AiCharger_Win7_8_VER30101 update is also broken - it starts an installshield setup, then never does any actual installation.

[Pants-Of-Fire]

Z87-Pro has an update for AI-Charger:

However, whenever I try to install this on my Win7 64 system, I get "your operating system does not support this update". Has anyone managed to get this installed, or has Asus put the wrong/bugged file up?

Looks like the AiCharger_Win7_8_VER30101 update is also broken - it starts an installshield setup, then never does any actual installation.

I found out these two updates are broken from Asus. They are listed as for Windows 7 64 bit, but they run as a Operating System Context mode for Vista, and so will never install on Windows 7/8.

[radlord]

What sort of updates does EZ Update in the AI suite actually list? It doesn't ever seem to pick up available updated software that is listed on the website downloads page.

[Dumo]

M6I tests

Ram @ 3500+

[owikh84]

Asking on behalf of my friend from LYN forum.

Something wrong with the turbo clock for i5 4670 (non-K)
MCE is set to AUTO (BIOS only has AUTO/DISABLE)
Core0,1,2,3 Ratio Limit set to 38x



But the load multi is max at 36x only as shown below. BIOS is 0711. Isn't it supposed to be 38x max?

[LardArse]

its fixed in 0035 or ask him to manually enable c3/c6

[owikh84]

its fixed in 0035 or ask him to manually enable c3/c6

It's the Hero okay i will ask him to enable the c3/c6

[LardArse]

i think the latest 00xxx is also fixed

[idahosurge]

BTW if you are using only two memory modules, use the red slots.

Are you referring to the M6E and if you are would using the black slots cause the OCCT CPU test with 64 Bits and AVX Linpack checked to fail?

I have a 4770K with a M6E and a GSkill Trident C11 2800MHz 8GB kit that I have not been able to get OCCT to pass the CPU 64 Bits AVX Linpack. I was finally able to get it to pass yesterday afternoon at a dram freq of 2400MHz and a NB of 3900MHz with the CPU at 4.4GHz.

I am going to try the dram at 2800MHz with the NB at 3900MHz tonight and I would like to know if having the ram in the black slots will affect the test passing / system stability.

[LardArse]

Are you referring to the M6E and if you are would using the black slots cause the OCCT CPU test with 64 Bits and AVX Linpack checked to fail?

I have a 4770K with a M6E and a GSkill Trident C11 2800MHz 8GB kit that I have not been able to get OCCT to pass the CPU 64 Bits AVX Linpack. I was finally able to get it to pass yesterday afternoon at a dram freq of 2400MHz and a NB of 3900MHz with the CPU at 4.4GHz.

I am going to try the dram at 2800MHz with the NB at 3900MHz tonight and I would like to know if having the ram in the black slots will affect the test passing / system stability.

yes it will , recommend to use red slots

[idahosurge]

yes it will , recommend to use red slots

Thanks for the confirmation!

[idahosurge]

I have a GTX780 in slot 2 (PCIe 3.0/2.0_x16_A2 in my M6E. I have it in slot 2 because my SB-E x2 HSF interferes with slot 1.

The manual says slot 1 in for single vga, but is also says slot one is set to x8 by default if any of the other PCIe 3.0/2.0 slots are occupied.

BIOS says the GPU is set to x16. GPU-Z says the GTX780 is set to x16. Everything seems to run fine and I am getting 3DMark06 scores of 365XX and 368XX at a 4.4GHz OC with NB at 3900MHz and ram at 2400MHz.

Is there anything wrong with me having the card in slot 2 instead of slot 1? Even though everything seems to run fine I thought that I would ask.

[LardArse]

slot 1 is native directly to the cpu while slot 2 is via PLX bridge, the recommended slot 1 was just so u get a slight perf benefit by running directly to the cpu stead of via plx

[idahosurge]

Once again thanks!

[idahosurge]

I am using M6E BIOS 0711.

After I have already set this and F10 out of BIOS I have noticed that when I go back into BIOS and I change my CPU Vcore value it changes my CPU CORE RATIO from PER CORE back to SYNC ALL CORES then I have to go back and change it back to PER CORE. When you change it back my CPU RATIO LIMIT blanked out for all four cores and I had to put those values back in.

Is this a bug in the BIOS because I do not think that settings in BIOS should change on there own!