Vishera 5Ghz FX-9000/8770

[Ace123]

I think its funny everyone is blowing the TDP out of poportion. I run my 3930k every day at 5.1ghz at 1.525V. I get that the cpu just doesnt perform as fast as the intel, but lets be honest about what the complaint is. My Cpu isnt "cooking" my room.

Complain about the performance by all means, but quit making it seem like the cpu is going to create a small star in your room. These are also TDP envelopes at wide open throttle with all the cores loaded. Realistically, how much power is the cpu going to pull while you are surfing your email and playing BF3. I dont know about your guys, but I dont prime95 all day every day on my gaming rig

[tajoh111]

I think its funny everyone is blowing the TDP out of poportion. I run my 3930k every day at 5.1ghz at 1.525V. I get that the cpu just doesnt perform as fast as the intel, but lets be honest about what the complaint is. My Cpu isnt "cooking" my room.

Complain about the performance by all means, but quit making it seem like the cpu is going to create a small star in your room. These are also TDP envelopes at wide open throttle with all the cores loaded. Realistically, how much power is the cpu going to pull while you are surfing your email and playing BF3. I dont know about your guys, but I dont prime95 all day every day on my gaming rig

Its the TDP, price, availability and likely after it comes out its performance thats getting people to questions AMD judgement. AMD is the underdog, has worse performance and worse branding in the marketplace. Releasing such a low availability party at an 800 dollar price point is simply an arrogant move on their part.

AMD branding is significantly worse than Intels so they have to play the value angle.

E.g fx 8350 trades blows with 3570k from Intel, but is priced below it. If similar pricing were to follow, AMD should price the 9590 at the very most similar to the 4770k which it likely trades blows with because of AMD market position, performance and if anything pay less for it because of the power consumption and branding.

AMD needs a 4770k fighter more than anything else right now. If this chip is priced at 800 dollars and made available to only builders right now, it is simply a y move on AMD part. They are not in a position to price their product as such as very little people are going to pay a premium on an AMD processor right now. This chip for the most part is priced for Fan boys only as most overclocking enthusiasts probably realize when both CPU's are overclocked, the 4770k likely wins while being drastically cheaper.

There is the 1 in 1, 000, 000 that wants to put this under LN2 and get high clocks but this market doesn't matter.

AMD already should of learned its lesson when it priced its 7970 above the gtx 580 last generation. It sold poorly and allowed Nvidia to capitalize easily. But atleast in that case the pricing could be justified as it was the highest performing chip at the time and there isn't as huge a branding discrepancy. The Fx 9590 likely is binned silicon of fx 8350. Charging 600 dollars more over a fx 8350 is too much.

[FlanK3r]

zalbard: Im talking about hard OC, Im not as 90% users, push to the limits. After is Ivy very hungry with high voltages. Of course we can have two situation:
1) 1.3V 4600 MHz Ivy
2)1.45V 4750 MHz Ivy (+150 MHz, + around next 50W)

The example of 1 is more efective, ideal for 90% users
the example of 2 is for enthusiast, who doesnt care much for long product life (1, max 2 years will be OK for him) and for power consumption

So...FX-9xxx is OC edition of Vishera at stock. In limited production for hard enthusiast. And from my point of view is not bad, Il be happy for theoretical 500W CPU with 10% higher performance than 3970x i7@ 4.5 GHz. Because this could be wow efffect for me. Power consumption in this case is the last one. Btw. 500W CPU is really unreal for cooling and most PWMs :-D

[zalbard]

zalbard: Im talking about hard OC, Im not as 90% users, push to the limits. After is Ivy very hungry with high voltages. Of course we can have two situation:
1) 1.3V 4600 MHz Ivy
2)1.45V 4750 MHz Ivy (+150 MHz, + around next 50W)

1.45V is the road to degradation on IVB. Very, very few people use that 24/7. And you don't need nearly as much voltage for 4.8GHz.
I am sure if you feed really excessive voltage to Vishera the power requirements will explode just as fast. They are no different in this aspect.

So...FX-9xxx is OC edition of Vishera at stock. In limited production for hard enthusiast.

Pre-overclocked CPUs are hardly targets of enthusiasts. They are likely to be targeting prebuilts the likes of Alienware.

[Rollo]

I can't imagine anyone buying one of these at $800..

It's a binned $200 chip with a $100 cooler that provides the performance of $300 chips currently on the market. Where's the extra $500 of value?

At $350 it would be competitive, and still profitable to AMD.

[tbone8ty]

Listening to the pcper podcast... they mention that this new FX chip will have turbo core 3.0 like the new richland parts.

[ilkkahy]

AMD branding is significantly worse than Intels so they have to play the value angle.

Dont you see the conflict here?

I hate the 9xxx naming but other than that amd is doing just right moves with this product to improve their brand. If some people dont get the fine little nuances in this bit different product launch, they propably dont get it even if someone explained them why (or they simply dont want to understand).

[tajoh111]

Dont you see the conflict here?

I hate the 9xxx naming but other than that amd is doing just right moves with this product to improve their brand. If some people dont get the fine little nuances in this bit different product launch, they propably dont get it even if someone explained them why (or they simply dont want to understand).

You do that with a truly new product that is truly different than your old line and has the performance(better than the competition) to back it up.

A 4.7ghz- 5.0 ghz piledriver product thats killed in reviews because of its pricing isn't going to help AMD branding. A new steamroller processor that beats intel 4770k by atleast 40 percent is what it would take to justify a 2.3x price increase.

Pricing this chip as such if anything makes Intels product stack look better than it is.

E.g Compared to ivy bridge, the 4770k isn't that good compared to 3770k.

However now lets take 4770k and compare it to this fx - 9590 which is 800 dollars. The 4770k offers similar performance at stock, better overclocking potentially, half the power consumption and less than half the price. The value of the 4770k looks supreme now compared to the competition. If these fx 9590 chips get to reviewers, all them will be laughing at the pricing of fx9590. Any one willing to buy this chip at 800 dollars is simply a ridiculous AMD fanboy, as it is a silly product that loses on most accounts compared to the competition while being a whole heck of a lot more expensive. There is simply no rational explanation to buying it. In the end this isn't going to help AMD branding, its going to help Intels as the fx 9590 will not be taken seriously and the 4770k looks like a monstrous value compared to the competition.

Ultimately, if AMD is going to launch a 800 dollar flagship processor, it better have the performance to back it up while being a new chip altogether.

E.g Hyundai didn't take the elantra and put a turbo in it to increase the brand appeal. It released the genesis line which was often superior to the competition at a similar or lower price point.

If Hyundai just rebadged one of their regular models with a bigger turbo and priced it at 2.3x its competitors, no one would take that model seriously and people would be laughing behind their backs.

Having chips with similar performance, at a similar price point would already bolster the AMD brand if it had such products. It would take aways sales from Intel and it would gather more market-share which is key to improving branding. AMD getting stupid with its pricing with inferior products would lead to a bankrupt as AMD products wouldn't move stock. Hence when core 2 duo came out, AMD slashed the prices of their chips to stay a float. If AMD was prideful and never changed prices, AMD would certainly not be around anymore.

[Rollo]

Dont you see the conflict here?

I hate the 9xxx naming but other than that amd is doing just right moves with this product to improve their brand. If some people dont get the fine little nuances in this bit different product launch, they propably dont get it even if someone explained them why (or they simply dont want to understand).

The problem with what you are saying is to use a new name and a much higher price to establish yourself as a premium brand, you HAVE to deliver the goods on some aspect of the product people are willing to pay extra for.

Performance: No, there are other cpus that cost $300, as good for gaming. (and probably better if you take multi GPU into account)

Power/heat/noise: No, any way you cut it, the super high TDP of this product is less desirable.

Luxury packaging: Tough to do on a CPU. Probably comes with closed loop, but we've all bought those for $50-$100..

So there really isn't any way for AMD to do what you want them to do with this product.

[tajoh111]

The problem with what you are saying is to use a new name and a much higher price to establish yourself as a premium brand, you HAVE to deliver the goods on some aspect of the product people are willing to pay extra for.

Performance: No, there are other cpus that cost $300, as good for gaming. (and probably better if you take multi GPU into account)

Power/heat/noise: No, any way you cut it, the super high TDP of this product is less desirable.

Luxury packaging: Tough to do on a CPU. Probably comes with closed loop, but we've all bought those for $50-$100..

So there really isn't any way for AMD to do what you want them to do with this product.

On top of this, there is time for high pricing and right now isn't that time.

Look at the 7xxx launch at the beginning of last year. AMD increased pricing of their whole line to perhaps remove some of the value associate with the brand(in retrospect AMD really should have only increased the price if the performance delta was greater than 15-25% at launch compared to the gtx 580) . They paid the price as hardly any cards were sold and Nvidia's cards which had the branding value to begin with looked like tremendous value cards when their cards came out. Potentially fence sitters that may have brought a 7xxx but didn't because of the high pricing jumped on Nvidia. AMD lost a whole lot of market share and potentially revenue dollars during this time. It wasn't until AMD brought the value angle(price drop + free games up the wazoo) that it stopped the bleeding.

The problem with AMD increasing the pricing during this time was most people knew Nvidia cards were coming out soon and were likely to bring more performance percentage wise over the last generation. Hence people waited until Nvidias cards came out, rather than take the gamble with buying a 7xxx series early.

[informal]

This is OEM only part for now. Nobody cares about pricing since it won't sell in retail channel. The only thing that matters is whole system price. People who want a high performing AMD based system now have this option without messing with OCing themselves. If the pre-built systems are priced "ok" this could actually be a good marketing move for AMD.

[FlanK3r]

1.45V is the road to degradation on IVB. Very, very few people use that 24/7. And you don't need nearly as much voltage for 4.8GHz.
I am sure if you feed really excessive voltage to Vishera the power requirements will explode just as fast. They are no different in this aspect.

Pre-overclocked CPUs are hardly targets of enthusiasts. They are likely to be targeting prebuilts the likes of Alienware.

It was as example, because the voltage can not be the main problem what ussually killing chip in 24/7 use, but if chip is too hot. After is the problem degradation too. I kill only one chip from example 15-20 pieces of CPU. And it was mistake...1.9V, box cooler (i forgot at CMOS reset :-) )

[Ace123]

Here is another news source talking about turbo core 3.0, like I said don't be surprised if this is some piledriver 2.0
http://m.hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/566...d-fx-9590-cpu/
http://blog.gsmarena.com/amd-fx-9590...o-frequencies/
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/articl...re_fx-9590_cpu

[PedantOne]

its only binned old Vishera chips, not Piledriver 2.0 like in Richland

[cx-ray]

No comment

http://translate.google.com/translat...lar%2F&act=url

[Rollo]

No comment

http://translate.google.com/translat...lar%2F&act=url

Anyone actually thinking of paying $920 for one of these 220W TDP Piledrivers should look hard at the difference the minimum frame rate of a Piledriver 8350 at 4.8GHz and a 95W TDP, $200 intel 2500K.

I have to recant my prediction this part would compete, even at 5GHz the gaming performance is too low.

[Tomasis]

Rollo, please stop the rant!

First make clear what market segment the cpu is made for. Obviously it is not for ordinary Joe with normal budget as you like to make comparisons in your last 100 posts.

That cpu wont make any difference in the big picture. Mostly show off and those who buy Alienware, dont give FYVK for price difference and would like to pick another brand than Intel.

Everything doesnt has to be done in logical, pragmatic way.

Even if my Cpu and GPU is slower than yours, I still dont give FVCK!! I dont suffer of self affirmation having the best, latest.

[tajoh111]

Rollo, please stop the rant!

First make clear what market segment the cpu is made for. Obviously it is not for ordinary Joe with normal budget as you like to make comparisons in your last 100 posts.

That cpu wont make any difference in the big picture. Mostly show off and those who buy Alienware, dont give FYVK for price difference and would like to pick another brand than Intel.

Everything doesnt has to be done in logical, pragmatic way.

Even if my Cpu and GPU is slower than yours, I still dont give FVCK!! I dont suffer of self affirmation having the best, latest.

The CPU doesn't makes a difference in the big picture?

These are gonna be sold only to OEM initially with companies like Alienware. And people who buy alienware systems are mostly gamers.

Considering the person is likely going to get a multi GPU systems, getting this chip is going to cause a massive difference in what you get out of a multigpu system.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-fx-8...e/17494.html/2

This chip even at 4.8ghz is going to get hammered like bull dozer, even at 4.7-5.0 ghz.

This chip shows overwhelming ignorance on AMD's part. And hypocrisy from AMD fans and Nvidia and Intel criticizers alike.

Nvidia and Intel have often been bagged on because there chips are too expensive. However at the very least, they were market leaders and each time they did it, they bought a chip that was different than their regular product line silicon wise.

Titan particularly was harshed out on its 1000 dollar pricing(which pretty much everyone, even rollo criticized the pricing), but atleast it brought a 30+% lead over the competition and this lead held up or grew when the cards(including its competition) were overclocked. It also contained a new chip which was more expensive than anything else to make, finally brought uncapped dual precision, double the memory configuration and had absolutely no competition.

Yet everyone hammered on it.

Now lets look at this chip. Likely ties a $340 4770k, shares the same silicon as a 150 dollar processor and when its competition all shows up at max clocks this thing will almost lost every single benchmarks, plus it gets destroyed in multigpu performance.

Don't you think max performance at max overclocks and multi GPU performance are among the most important aspect when it comes to an enthusiast system. When it loses out on both of those and doesn't bring any value because of its bad pricing, its simply a bad product.

If your going to charge this much bring the performance to match it up.

Otherwise your simply making a product for the very ignorant. Basically for the customer that doesn't do any research before hand and buy looking purely at clock speed.

One more consequence of such moves from AMD is it allows Intel to price their cards higher. Depending on if this makes it to retail, Intel finally has a valid excuse to raise the price of their extreme edition processors. That being, the only competition they had before was themselves and they had to price everything basicaly against there own prices, the extreme editions were poor value. Now, they have these 9590s that are 920 dollars. Now its easy for them to raise the price because the extreme editions look like good values next to that processor.

The same thing happened to nvidia and the gtx 6xx and gtx 7xx series.

[informal]

PCGH.de tested 8350 @ the specs of the new top FX. Measured 75W more at full load vs stock 8350 . Not bad at all- they used rather high 1.45V for stable 4.8-5Ghz operation. Performance increase is rather dramatic vs 8350. We have one benchmark vs intel parts where it's among top performers (10% faster than 4770K @ stock; 4770K can OC ~10-15% so even OCed with increased power draw it can roughly only match new FX in this benchmark). Other (gaming) numbers are Vs stock 8350 where it's 16-20% faster- as expected.

note for gaming tests:

Please note that we map due to the completely different test system in games not benchmarks. PCGH usually tested with a titanium GTX @ 900 MHz, with the unscheduled Centurion simulation is an HD 7970 @ 1,2 GHz. The values ​​were not comparable 1:1, which is why we do without it. However, the x264 benchmark can be found brand new values, the large residual in the PCGH 07/2013 in Haswell-scale testing.

[behrouz]

(FX 8350 @ ~4,1 GHz ~1,35 Volt): ~245 Watt
(FX 8350 @ ~4,8 GHz ~1,45 Volt): ~320 Watt
(FX 8350 @ ~5,0 GHz ~1,51 Volt): ~360 Watt

[Rollo]

Rollo, please stop the rant!

First make clear what market segment the cpu is made for. Obviously it is not for ordinary Joe with normal budget as you like to make comparisons in your last 100 posts.

That cpu wont make any difference in the big picture. Mostly show off and those who buy Alienware, dont give FYVK for price difference and would like to pick another brand than Intel.

Everything doesnt has to be done in logical, pragmatic way.

Even if my Cpu and GPU is slower than yours, I still dont give FVCK!! I dont suffer of self affirmation having the best, latest.

First, my apologies. I had meant to put this link in the post:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/201...k-cpu-review/6

It's pretty widely known AMD CPUs can't feed multi GPU configs, but I meant to post that to go along with my assertion the $200 2500K had much higher minimums.

I don't care if my hardware is "better" than any one else's, or if AMD wins or loses beyond I hope they win because competition benefits me as a consumer.

I've even suggested on this forum I think AMD needs to release this part, because it's what they have to sell currently and they need something to generate buzz in the face of yet another successful intel launch.

HOWEVER; at $920 this chip is basically an attempt to steal from those who don't know any better. There isn't $920 of performance here. There isn't $520 of performance here. (for a gamer anyway, and that's who it's being pointed at)

I said that as 8350s sell at a profit for $200, and a good closed loop is $100, a binned 8350 at $350 is a good move for AMD.

This is just a plot to dupe high end buyers into giving AMD money for nothing, and people on boards like this should be shouting that from the rooftops, not hiding it.

[Rollo]

(FX 8350 @ ~4,1 GHz ~1,35 Volt): ~245 Watt
(FX 8350 @ ~4,8 GHz ~1,45 Volt): ~320 Watt
(FX 8350 @ ~5,0 GHz ~1,51 Volt): ~360 Watt

Burn the mutha down!

[Kain665]

Bbbbbut... AMD is smoother!

[behrouz]

First, my apologies. I had meant to put this link in the post:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/201...k-cpu-review/6

It's pretty widely known AMD CPUs can't feed multi GPU configs, but I meant to post that to go along with my assertion the $200 2500K had much higher minimums.

I don't care if my hardware is "better" than any one else's, or if AMD wins or loses beyond I hope they win because competition benefits me as a consumer.

I've even suggested on this forum I think AMD needs to release this part, because it's what they have to sell currently and they need something to generate buzz in the face of yet another successful intel launch.

HOWEVER; at $920 this chip is basically an attempt to steal from those who don't know any better. There isn't $920 of performance here. There isn't $520 of performance here. (for a gamer anyway, and that's who it's being pointed at)

I said that as 8350s sell at a profit for $200, and a good closed loop is $100, a binned 8350 at $350 is a good move for AMD.

This is just a plot to dupe high end buyers into giving AMD money for nothing, and people on boards like this should be shouting that from the rooftops, not hiding it.

One again , AMD Said :

AMD's original announcement said the FX-9590 and FX-9370 would become "available from system integrators globally beginning this summer." We asked whether these processors will also be available at retail. The company's response: "AMD is considering all options, but their initial plan is [system integrators]." In other words, you may not find these chips outside of pre-built PCs.

reference : Techreport

it means that there is no Gamer or people that care for money or Performance.you posted all about Performance and money.Man , Just Back off , It was not for The World that you life there, It was for the World Exactly Like "Car Warrior".

[tbone8ty]

Cpuz screens yet?