AMD finally fixing frame rate latency problem

[rk7p5]

That's why we need amd to fix their drivers and to stay on the ball. I really wanted a 7970 but seeing and hearing all the problems turned me off.

I just want 1 powerful card now, and maybe another for xfire or sli later on. It doesn't matter if it's nvidia or amd, as long as all my games work properly.

[solofly]

Doesn't matter if they fix the drivers or not, cause if they do fix something they will break it again down the road anyway and it's the same over and over without end...

[BababooeyHTJ]

What a troll, I love how the biggest complainers are the ones with the least experience on the subject. When is the last time that either one of you has used an AMD card?

[GoldenTiger]

What a troll, I love how the biggest complainers are the ones with the least experience on the subject. When is the last time that either one of you has used an AMD card?

Actually, it's pretty accurate. Disliking facts doesn't make them false or trolling. We see these comments constantly for a reason, and it's not just because people like to make things up repeatedly. And, to answer the question, today, on a notebook with a 5730m Radeon chip. For desktop, 7970 and 7950 cards last year, with no real improvements made to this day still.... microstutter, tons of little glitches, poor crossfire frametimes, loud reference coolers, no 3d, no lightboost, etc. *shrug* To each their own, but calling people trolls for not liking what you like... is a little much .

[Rollo]

Actually, it's pretty accurate. Disliking facts doesn't make them false or trolling. We see these comments constantly for a reason, and it's not just because people like to make things up repeatedly. And, to answer the question, today, on a notebook with a 5730m Radeon chip. For desktop, 7970 and 7950 cards last year, with no real improvements made to this day still.... microstutter, tons of little glitches, poor crossfire frametimes, loud reference coolers, no 3d, no lightboost, etc. *shrug* To each their own, but calling people trolls for not liking what you like... is a little much .

Actually, Solofly used to harass me so much on AnandTech Video forums I was convinced he was somehow connected to ATi/AMD.

He used to use ONLY Crossfire rigs, and before that ATi stuff. The business with him was theirs to lose, he was a huge fan.

I think we can all agree AMD is a bit late fixing the CFx drivers, and that a year or two of good CFx drivers is the only thing that will end the stigma.

Personally I wonder how things would have turned out for AMD and NVIDIA if they had kept the scissors and checkerboard options. Would frame delivery monitoring even be necessary? IIRC the checkerboard didn't scale as well, but if frames are delivered evenly, does this matter? I'd rather get 70 smooth fps than 85 with runts.

[PaganII]

I can't believe people with so much invested in their computers spend so much time complaining instead of using said hardware. And I agree much of the AMD bashing on this forum is total BS. Like if someone walks on water the next day everyone says he can't swim haha.

[STEvil]

Actually, Solofly used to harass me so much on AnandTech Video forums I was convinced he was somehow connected to ATi/AMD.

He used to use ONLY Crossfire rigs, and before that ATi stuff. The business with him was theirs to lose, he was a huge fan.

I think we can all agree AMD is a bit late fixing the CFx drivers, and that a year or two of good CFx drivers is the only thing that will end the stigma.

Personally I wonder how things would have turned out for AMD and NVIDIA if they had kept the scissors and checkerboard options. Would frame delivery monitoring even be necessary? IIRC the checkerboard didn't scale as well, but if frames are delivered evenly, does this matter? I'd rather get 70 smooth fps than 85 with runts.

Those options still exist, you just cant use them with some styles of rendering, mostly thanks to DX10+. You might be able to use them if you didnt mind a bit of efficiency loss, (70 vs 85 as you mentioned) but it could be too much loss..

[GoldenTiger]

I can't believe people with so much invested in their computers spend so much time complaining instead of using said hardware. And I agree much of the AMD bashing on this forum is total BS. Like if someone walks on water the next day everyone says he can't swim haha.

Oh, I don't spend much time at all complaining... I run my main rigs on nVidia .

[DefStar]

It looks from AMD's prototype driver that a-lot of the frame time issues will be fixed in the near future. But, there are things like Light Boost that are very beneficial. I have a monitor that does back-light strobing at 120hz...it's just like the 2D version of Light-Boost that we use to eliminate motion blur completely....and I got to tell you it is REALLY AWESOME. So I know Light-Boost itself is not required. AMD needs to work with display companies to make this technology readily available to their customers as-well. There are a-lot of benefits to choosing Nvidia over AMD at the moment...there is no denying that. But, AMDs video cards are very powerful and very capable of delivering. The benefits that Nvida bring are not out of reach and AMD is obviously not conceding.

Blood Dragon is out!

[paulbagz]

What a troll, I love how the biggest complainers are the ones with the least experience on the subject. When is the last time that either one of you has used an AMD card?

A troll is only a troll when people are prepared to bite.

-PB

[BababooeyHTJ]

Actually, Solofly used to harass me so much on AnandTech Video forums I was convinced he was somehow connected to ATi/AMD.

So he has a history of being a biased fanboy. I've seen these flipflopping fanboys on the forums all the time.

I think we can all agree AMD is a bit late fixing the CFx drivers, and that a year or two of good CFx drivers is the only thing that will end the stigma.

I just love how everyone is piling on about one single problem that Nvidia only fixed with this series of cards. Microstutter was there on Fermi too.

I agree that this is something that needs to be addressed and its about time. I'm really glad that Nvidia fixed the issue. The difference between sli and crossfire with no cap is very apparent in many games.

That said I'm pretty sure that the only reason that they did fix it was to get away with running cards at different clocks due to the new gpuboost feature.

Oh, I don't spend much time at all complaining... I run my main rigs on nVidia .

I don't know about that.

But, there are things like Light Boost that are very beneficial. I have a monitor that does back-light strobing at 120hz...it's just like the 2D version of Light-Boost that we use to eliminate motion blur completely....and I got to tell you it is REALLY AWESOME.

I am a huge 3d vision fanboy. When that works it is just plain awesome.

That said, 2d lightboost looks like . No amount of tweaking makes it look acceptable to me. Using a TN in itself is enough of compromise now you're using an option that makes it look far worse on top of that.

For 2d gaming there are a couple of 2560x1440p PLS Korean displays on ebay that'll overclock to at least 90hz, some people are seeing 120hz. For a little over $300 you can't go wrong. It was nice to see the resale value on my catleap crash overnight.

[Rollo]

I just love how everyone is piling on about one single problem that Nvidia only fixed with this series of cards. Microstutter was there on Fermi too.

I agree that this is something that needs to be addressed and its about time. I'm really glad that Nvidia fixed the issue. The difference between sli and crossfire with no cap is very apparent in many games.

That said I'm pretty sure that the only reason that they did fix it was to get away with running cards at different clocks due to the new gpuboost feature.

.

That's an interesting hypothesis, could be right. The top card usually runs hotter in most cases because the intake is taking in heat off the bottom card. With the GPU Boost adjusting based on card temp, it would make sense the top card and bottom card would be out of synch- but enough to necessitate frame metering?

[DefStar]

So he has a history of being a biased fanboy. I've seen these flipflopping fanboys on the forums all the time.



I just love how everyone is piling on about one single problem that Nvidia only fixed with this series of cards. Microstutter was there on Fermi too.

I agree that this is something that needs to be addressed and its about time. I'm really glad that Nvidia fixed the issue. The difference between sli and crossfire with no cap is very apparent in many games.

That said I'm pretty sure that the only reason that they did fix it was to get away with running cards at different clocks due to the new gpuboost feature.



I don't know about that.



I am a huge 3d vision fanboy. When that works it is just plain awesome.

That said, 2d lightboost looks like . No amount of tweaking makes it look acceptable to me. Using a TN in itself is enough of compromise now you're using an option that makes it look far worse on top of that.

For 2d gaming there are a couple of 2560x1440p PLS Korean displays on ebay that'll overclock to at least 90hz, some people are seeing 120hz. For a little over $300 you can't go wrong. It was nice to see the resale value on my catleap crash overnight.

No motion blur looks like POOP POO to YOU??? Like a poop tird? Or is it the lack of brightness, which is expected since your are reducing the amount of time the back-light is on between frames. Ohhhh, I can't agree with you on anything display related if your not on-board for the total elimination of motion blur. They just need to invest in making the pixels light up brighter in a controllable manner (i.e. latency). I'm not into 3D on a monitor...maybe with rift oculus 3D would be cool...But 3D looks so fake and cheesy anyway (it looks like a pop up book. the background is 2D while the object you're suppose to focus on is popping out....please.). Motion blur just sucks, I've always hated how everything just absolutely blurs with the slightest movement. Even at 120hz without back-light strobing everything still just blurs. I would say a picture where everything is completely blurred looks like . A 2560x1440p blur of poop across the screen isn't even poop if you can't see what it is due to motion-blur.

[MaddMuppet]

No motion blur looks like POOP POO to YOU??? Like a poop tird? Or is it the lack of brightness, which is expected since your are reducing the amount of time the back-light is on between frames. Ohhhh, I can't agree with you on anything display related if your not on-board for the total elimination of motion blur. They just need to invest in making the pixels light up brighter in a controllable manner (i.e. latency). I'm not into 3D on a monitor...maybe with rift oculus 3D would be cool...But 3D looks so fake and cheesy anyway (it looks like a pop up book. the background is 2D while the object you're suppose to focus on is popping out....please.). Motion blur just sucks, I've always hated how everything just absolutely blurs with the slightest movement. Even at 120hz without back-light strobing everything still just blurs. I would say a picture where everything is completely blurred looks like . A 2560x1440p blur of poop across the screen isn't even poop if you can't see what it is due to motion-blur.

Agreed. Personally, I hate motion blur aswell. For the life of me, I can't understand why some games even have the option to include it, let alone increase it. Horrible, horrible stuff.

[BababooeyHTJ]

I don't play just Quake 3. Thats the only type of gaming where that 2d lightboost might be worth the trade off.

2D lightboost completely kills image quality imo. I can't listen to your opinion on anything display related if you won't at admit that 2d lightboost comes with a lot of compromises and especally. Which in my opinion isn't worth it. Here is a video for anyone wondering what sort of trade off I'm talking about.

If you can't see why 2d lightboost isn't as good as a 27" 2560x1440 IPS for many games then I can't listen to your opinion either. Not everything in life is black and white.

[Rollo]

That said I'm pretty sure that the only reason that they did fix it was to get away with running cards at different clocks due to the new gpuboost feature.

If you are right about this, I'd say it's more likely they started it back when they introduced hybrid SLi . (using motherboard GPU with add on)

It is also all the more shocking ATi/AMD never addressed this as they have always offered mixed card Crossfire. I used to post that I would think you would want both your cards to be exactly the same because I didn't see how they could balance the output of a fast and slow card. Looks like they were not and that I was years ahead of the times.

I actually had tons of ATi fans yell at me "the frame rate is higher, it HAS to be better you NVIDIOT!" Intuitively I thought "there's no way you can mix a 20fps card and a 45fps card to good ends unless you're doing something like having the faster card do 2/3 of the frames". (and that if you did that, the balancing itself would add overhead and alter fluidity)

I agree with you on Light Boost. No way I'm using a 1080P 27" monitor, even if it was S-IPS or some better tech than TN. The PPI is really low there, picture would be very grainy. 81 PPI is just abysmal for a modern panel. Q:What's this? ..... A:The Mona Lisa at 81PPI.

[Rollo]

Agreed. Personally, I hate motion blur aswell. For the life of me, I can't understand why some games even have the option to include it, let alone increase it. Horrible, horrible stuff.

"I need more socks"

Sorry, couldn't resist reference to monitor lag picture we've all seen a million times.

[mockingbird]

I just love how everyone is piling on about one single problem that Nvidia only fixed with this series of cards. Microstutter was there on Fermi too.

Yea, but the difference between nVidia and AMD is that AMD has to be publicly called out on the bugs in their drivers for them to actually do something about it. Posts they don't like are routinely deleted on their forum, so that there is no posterity and that people won't know about the lingering problems with their cards. Their driver team is a joke compared to nVidia.

[solofly]

What a troll

A troll? A hero but you wouldn't know anything about that and the fact I've been doing this longer than Ati's existence and probably yours too. There's not many people that go through hardware as much as I do, take my word for it. I don't insult you, please don't insult me.

[BababooeyHTJ]

If you are right about this, I'd say it's more likely they started it back when they introduced hybrid SLi . (using motherboard GPU with add on)

It is also all the more shocking ATi/AMD never addressed this as they have always offered mixed card Crossfire. I used to post that I would think you would want both your cards to be exactly the same because I didn't see how they could balance the output of a fast and slow card. Looks like they were not and that I was years ahead of the times.

That is actually a very good point. I noticed microstutter on the exact same cards. It must be horrendous in mixed crossfire.

[Sushi Warrior]

I think the driver release is like a month away tops, jeeze everyone gets heated fast. Nvidia 690 and SLI configs have microstutter too. On the high end cards, unless you're dropping below 60FPS or some margin like that, microstutter is rarely noticeable. And frankly I don't feel like many of those numbers that reviewers quote/record for frame times are remotely accurate anyways, considering FRAPS is about as effective for measuring frametimes as a blind person is at taking pictures of a sports game.

Oh and honestly, why does anyone even consider a Titan? I just see lackluster performance and a hugely inflated price tag. That thing isn't work $1000, maybe $800 or something. 690 and 7990 both trounce it. It's locked down and overclocking looks barely possible for an average user. Sure, it saves on your power bill. Loses on everything else.

[zalbard]

I think the driver release is like a month away tops, jeeze everyone gets heated fast.

AMD says frame pacing beta driver due in June/July timeframe: http://techreport.com/news/24748/amd...july-timeframe

[Sushi Warrior]

AMD says frame pacing beta driver due in June/July timeframe: http://techreport.com/news/24748/amd...july-timeframe

Exactly, it's May now so June is a month off?... I'm sure WHQL will take longer but I have no doubt the beta will be out by then.

[GoldenTiger]

Yea, but the difference between nVidia and AMD is that AMD has to be publicly called out on the bugs in their drivers for them to actually do something about it. Posts they don't like are routinely deleted on their forum, so that there is no posterity and that people won't know about the lingering problems with their cards. Their driver team is a joke compared to nVidia.

Well said.

Also, June/July for a beta that doesn't even actually "fix" it to NVidia's level per the preview benches we've seen... so 1-2 months at least (they could do mid-late July and it'd be closer to three!) *more* after years of issues, and people are defending it... wow.

[dragonavenger]

What a troll, I love how the biggest complainers are the ones with the least experience on the subject. When is the last time that either one of you has used an AMD card?

Amazing. It's true.