HardForum user Vega: Quad Titan 5Ghz 24/7 rig -- Possibly world's fastest non-LN2 rig

[paulbagz]

It possibly, fastest non LN2 gaming rig ... but definitely gaming rig with biggest micro-stuttering on the planet

Oh please don't start that in this thread >_________________________<

-PB

[STaRGaZeR]

As to IPS's, mine isnt perfect by any stretch (LG W3000H) but I do well in trackmania.. and if you've ever played that you know what "high speed" can mean

I do well in TM on IPS screens too, but they do look like crap with this game

Awesome colors though, TM being as colorful as it is.

[c22]

And this is "xtreme".

Not that "6,5 GHz bull overclocks" that last for 5 minutes just for the screenshot/picture. So useless.

[RPGWiZaRD]

Saddens me that so many XS users didn't even know of Lightboost... But yea this forum has never been big on display discussions as the display section is buried down deep. Needs more monitor performance lovin', not just image quality! ^^

[eXa]

Yeah... XS just plain sucks when it comes to monitors... HardForum is way better in that area.

[mutantmagnet]

Yeah, I'll definitely try it *before* I do anything with my 30"... I'm sort of wondering if it's just hype like the whole 120hz craze was (relatively) on Catleaps.

It's not limp hype. If you can't take the time to read the TFT review I linked to then atleast watch this youtube review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzYZWbov8v4

[lowfat]

Saddens me that so many XS users didn't even know of Lightboost... But yea this forum has never been big on display discussions as the display section is buried down deep. Needs more monitor performance lovin', not just image quality! ^^

I only really started to look in to this a few days ago. Starting to realize gaming on IPS generally sucks.

[Rollo]

I only really started to look in to this a few days ago. Starting to realize gaming on IPS generally sucks.

I've owned six 120MHz panels. It's not an accident that I have two 25X16 panels again. 1080P at 27" on a TN panel is nice for high fps without tearing, but that's about it.

Cheap panel is cheap.

[zir_blazer]

This is the dumbest "News" thread I have ever read. I'm should post my neighbor's quad 7990 AMD system tomorrow, I think he has a web-sight about seeing tracers/blurring when your on acid.

Agreed. This is just some guy bragging his super duper computer - or, that he had all that money available to spend on it. Otherwise it is not impressive.
Considering that it was posted in HardForum Video Cards section, I suppose that the correct equivalent here should be Hardware/nVidia. At News section this makes absolutely no sense.

[GoldenTiger]

It's not limp hype. If you can't take the time to read the TFT review I linked to then atleast watch this youtube review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzYZWbov8v4

I know there is a large technical difference, but I mean in terms of how it actually plays and the practical benefits, vs. the huge deficits such as poor color, low brightness, small size, and low resolution.

I only really started to look in to this a few days ago. Starting to realize gaming on IPS generally sucks.

Eh, I have no real problems with it aside from disliking the blur during rapid pans (such as quickly turning around in Battlefield 3 to check my rear, etc.). I love how good the color looks on S-IPS panels, as well as the huge resolution, no color shift on the monitor top to bottom, and large size.

[NEOAethyr]

From my understanding, you need to calibrate both types of panel's, ips and tn.
Though I've never owned an ips...
But I do know the korea bargin bin screens, all of the 27/30in's ips high res screen's need calibration.
Each monitor maker does things there own way, some seem to have similar osd layouts.
Some like the catleap 2b pcb, have no osd, all the calibration needs to be done on the computer side.

Prob with tn's from my experience with those is that they usually need pretty serious calibration, especially since they are missing 2bits of data per color, it's kinda like watching dvd's...
And the backlight bleed on the asus is horrible, I've thought about opening it up and sticking electrical tape around the edges or something to get rid of it.

Light boost, all I know is you need to fake that you have a ir transmitter hooked up.
Or change the mode into a different one, red/blue glasses, etc all those diff modes (there's registry tweaks or something to enable these).
And once the nvidia driver thinks you have a 3d vision setup plugged in and 3d mode enabled it'll go into light boost mode.
There's a glitch where you can get it working in 2d mode lol but I haven't played with 3d in like a month or 2.
I don't keep my ir transmitter plugged in when I'm not using it.
Because I can never tell if the glasses are truly off otherwise, that's just me .
And that's the only time it goes into light boost 2d, a glitch.

In 2d mode, I wouldn't beable deal with light boost on all the time.
Mainly because most of my calibration goes down the drain if I use that mode.
Now if there is a way to mod the monitor into always using light boost, in normal mode were everything is still adjustable, then I'm all for that.
I got a flickering line, 1/4 line or so anyways, on the top right of the screen, in light boost mode the flicker is still there but it's not as bad because it syncs up with the display better.
Once in a great while I'll get flicker in 3d, seems though if I restart the app it goes away.
It would be nice though if we could do at least the 144hz 3d :\.

Oh one more thing I wanted to say.
Surely an 72hz ips could be no worse in gaming then a 72hz tn...
The 72hz or whatever tn's are usually 5ms or so gtg anyways.

[solofly]

I've owned six 120MHz panels.

But do you own a lightboost capable panel, ahaaa...

I've just gone through Viewsonic V2770-LED and Asus PB278Q and look what I ended up with, Benq XL2420T a cheap panel as you say but of course I am a real gamer...(mind you I used to say the same)

IPS is great for slow mo and still pics but for fast past gaming you can't beat lightboost capable setup...

[RPGWiZaRD]

Yeah... XS just plain sucks when it comes to monitors... HardForum is way better in that area.

Definitely, also a lot more people care about motion smoothness over there why I can identify myself a lot better in that display section of that forum.

I mean take a look at the first page in the display section:



They look quite popular those threads with lightboost/120Hz(+) TN panels. haha

[LeoAndrade]

CallsignVega post a lot at the Liquid Cooling section... there are some pictures of his system there.

[DefStar]

I guess my monitor can do essentially the same thing as LightBoost...its kind of interesting, But it's sooo dark...like something is wrong dark. If you read about how LightBoost works you'll understand why its so dark. In short, I don't like it...it's really too dark, but I want to use it for games. Luckily, my monitor stores separate settings for 3D and 2D modes, so I don't have to readjust brightness and contrast settings when switching between the two (i.e. you use a 3D mode to get the LightBoost effect on my monitor).

They need to work on this tech some more, it's to dark...and for Nvidia to exploit it and call it LightBoost like it's their own tech is kinda rediculous, I have nothing Nvidia on my pc. CRT monitor's pixels light up brighter (read about phospherus or whatever CRT uses) as compared to LCD...that's why it's so dark on lcd.

Anyways, it certainly works; I just ran the pixperAn test and I can clearly read the text scrolling across the screen using the mod, but when using the fastest 120Hz mode without the mod the text is to blurry to read.

[GoldenTiger]

Anyone comment on lightboost brightness, and color representation, compared to an S-IPS? I don't want to try even ordering one if it's just going to be a washed-out, dim mess that looks sharp in movement. Is it at passable color-wise and reasonably bright for use? Just curious on updated opinions since many of the threads I'd seen a few months back were from people owning these things for a week or less. Also, I'm thinking of getting an Overlord X270OC (120hz 2560x1440 with a small amount of luck) instead... any thoughts on comparison?

[Rollo]

But do you own a lightboost capable panel, ahaaa...

I've just gone through Viewsonic V2770-LED and Asus PB278Q and look what I ended up with, Benq XL2420T a cheap panel as you say but of course I am a real gamer...(mind you I used to say the same)

IPS is great for slow mo and still pics but for fast past gaming you can't beat lightboost capable setup...

(shrugs)


http://www.prismo.ch/comparisons/desktop.php

25% less PPI? 25% screen area? Crappy colors that fade at edges of monitor?

No thanks. I've had a 30" screen for many years, bought my 3007 WFP HC back in 2008. I went through a phase of preferring the 120HZ panels for their 3d, but at the end of the day other monitors just seem, well, small.

I miss the 3d at times, don't miss the 120Hz or low res.

Used to be people would argue "CRT vs LCD" now they argue "TN vs IPS" The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[zalbard]

Anyone comment on lightboost brightness, and color representation, compared to an S-IPS?

Not great at all. Good for games only.

[mdrejhon]

I miss the 3d at times, don't miss the 120Hz or low res.

And some IPS users (who are sensitive to motion blur) are so impressed by LightBoost when they try it out:

"Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is."

From Overclock.net
"Finally got this working on my VG278 and holy *****! It's unbelievable! Definitely worth it coming from 1600p."

From HardForum
So I finally got the VG248QE hooked up last night and was able to play around with it for a couple hours. The other monitor that I have is a HP ZR30W which is a 30" 2560x1600 IPS monitor so I will be comparing the VG248QE to that a lot in this review.

Right off the bat, I noticed the color quality seems to be a lot worse than the ZR30W. Everything looks to be washed out, dull and not to mention the monitor suffers from poor viewing angles. On the ZR30W, there is next to no color shifting when I move my head around unlike the VG248QE, but that's a common problem with all TN monitors. I tried calibrating the monitor a little bit using some of the values posted online, but it still doesn't compare to the HP.

Moving on, the first thing I tried was 144 Hz gaming. I loaded up Borderlands 2 just to see how it is and I can definitely say it felt smoother. There is no screen tearing at all on the ASUS, unlike how it is on the HP if i don't turn on Vsync. Although the game felt smoother at 144 Hz and there was less blurring, I found that having to play on a lower res (1920x1080 vs 2560x1600) and poorer color reproduction made the overall gaming experience WORSE. Granted this isn't a competitive, online FPS game so I might have benefited more from having a faster refresh rate, but I would have probably stuck with playing this game on the 30" IPS monitor rather than a 24" TN.

At this point I felt like I may have wasted $300 bucks on a monitor that is full of compromises. The next thing I tried of course was using the Lightboost hack. This was the main reason why I bought the monitor in the first place since there are plenty of other 120 Hz monitors that I could have gotten that I'm sure had better color reproduction.

So I downloaded the hacked INF file and followed Mark's instructions. After turning on Lightboost, I noticed the monitor became a little bit brighter so I loaded up PixPerAn just to verify everything is working. The first thing I noticed was that I can actually read "I need more socks" at full speed! This was cool since I've never been able to read it going so fast before on any LCD monitor.

I then proceeded to load up Borderlands 2 again not having much expectations. The first thing that happened was I noticed the FPS drop down to around 1-2 fps, but then I remembered to hold down "Ctrl-T" for a few seconds to turn off the 3D effect which fixed the FPS problem. So I loaded up a game and the first thing that came to my mind was...

SWEET MOTHER OF GOD!

Am I seeing this correctly? The last time I gamed on a CRT monitor was back in 2006 before I got my first LCD and this ASUS monitor is EXACTLY like how I remembered gaming on a CRT monitor. I was absolutely shocked and amazed at how clear everything was when moving around. After seeing Lightboost in action, I would have gladly paid twice the amount for something that can reproduce the feeling I got when playing on a CRT. Now I really can't see myself going back to my 30" 2560x1600 IPS monitor when gaming. Everything looks so much clearer on the ASUS with Lightboost turned on.

If you do any kind of gaming, you should definitely get this monitor. For everything else however, an IPS monitor would probably be better.

Thankfully I am lucky enough to have both

Since many XtremeSystems people have never heard of LightBoost benefitting 2D.... (That means you've been living under a rock; it was a big discovery by many people in the 120Hz community including me in the last few months -- recent coverage by NewEgg, Asus, TFTCentral, PCMonitors.info, etc -- and google "lightboost"; it's now more popular for motion blur elimination, rather than 3D vision)

As you can see by people like the above, several people who are sensitive to motion blur, was dissapointed at only the minor improvement of 120Hz (16.7ms sample and hold -> 8.33ms sample and hold). But enabling LightBoost stroboscopically shortens the refreshes (2.4ms stroboscopic flash 120 times per second, during LightBoost=100%, shortening to 1.4ms strobe flashes). The pixel transitions are kept in total darkness (thus, your eyes don't see the blur from the LCD pixel transitions either). The 1.4ms stroboscopic frame flashes (once per refresh, 120 times a second) from the LightBoost strobe backlight, is more than 92% shorter than the 16.7ms length of a continuously-shining frame on a 60 Hz LCD. Correspondingly, there's 92% less motion blur with LightBoost (over one order of magnitude less motion blur) instead of 50% less motion blur (half as much) for a regular 120 Hz.

LightBoost is not for everyone. The colors do degrade somewhat, of course. Sometimes a bit, sometimes by a lot, very monitor-dependant and depends on what your eyes are used to. There are ways to calibrate LightBoost for a better picture (google LightBoost calibration), since it's pre-calibrated for 3D glasses, but you want to use it during plain 2D use (keep LightBoost enabled for non-3D use; keeping the zero motion blur advantage). Some people do say "ho hum" when they see 120Hz, and maybe even LightBoost, but such users are usually people who don't often track eyes during high-speed pans (like many CRT diehards do).

For the brightness problem, can be helped somewhat by choosing the right monitor. I find that the LightBoost on the BENQ is quite bright, especially at LightBoost=100%; but the BENQ is eye-scorchingly bright without LightBoost (over 300cd, hurts my eyes), so enabling LightBoost is a godsend anyway. (Unless you like 300 candles glaring into your eye, due to a bright sun-lit room)

LightBoost really helps if you manage to run fps=Hz (120fps or better), and if you do fast movement like fast strafes, fast pans, 180 degree flicks, high speed flybys, and anything that involves continuous fast motion where you are tracking your eyes on moving objects while the screen is in constant motion. So you can identify and frag enemies in the game quicker, without having to slow down or stop your movements -- much like you could on a CRT.

This is the kind of stuff CRT-clarity motion of LightBoost really helps:
-- Fast 180-degree flick turns in FPS shooting.
-- Shooting while turning, without stopping turning (easier on CRT or LightBoost)
-- Close-up strafing, especially circle strafing
-- Running while looking at the ground (e.g. hunting for tiny objects quickly).
-- Identifying multiple far-away enemies or small targets, while turning fast
-- Playing fast characters such as "Scout" in Team Fortress 2
-- High-speed low passes, such as low helicoptor flybys in Battlefield 3, you aim better.
Fast pans as perfectly as sharp as stationary images...

LightBoost is quite demanding in that it works "super well" at 120fps@120Hz, but essentially mostly useless at 60fps@120Hz. (LightBoost becomes more useful the closer you get to 120fps, once you exceed approximately 80fps). LightBoost is vendor-locked to function only at 100Hz-120Hz, and not at lower refresh rates (otherwise we wouldn't need powerful GPU's to really benefit from LightBoost). So doing fps=Hz on LightBoost requires the types of rigs found in xtremesystems -- so the xtremesystems is the type of audience that can benefit from LightBoost. And if you still hate LightBoost picture, there are future developments of better-quality, brighter, colorful, stroboscopic-backlight-driven displays. (e.g. ViewPixx Scientific Research Display is an example of the future of LCD.). Even OLED is sometimes problematic too (See Why Do Some OLED's Have Motion Blur) - that's the motion blur from the sample and hold effect, even at 0ms instant pixel response; LightBoost actually outperforms most early OLED's in terms of motion blur (albiet OLED colors are MUCH better).

Refresh-synchonized stroboscopic backlights is good for the CRT zero motion blur effect (perfect sharp motion in ultra fast pans).
This can be good if you are already familiar with CRT-clarity motion of 60fps@60Hz (or any fps=Hz).
(Regular LCD 120Hz is still too motion-blurry for some of us, we need LightBoost above and beyond.)
Of course, our human eyes are the limiting factor, but some of us motion-blur-sensitive people have found LCD at 120Hz still has more motion blur than CRT; the LightBoost fixes that.

Vega (owner of FW900 CRT's, owner of Catleap 2B 120Hz IPS overlocked) bought this rig only after discovering LightBoost.
So this "world's fastest 24/7-running non-LN2 gaming rig" (according to 3DMark11 leaderboard) actually exists only because of LightBoost

LightBoost is not for everyone, not everyone is sensitive to motion blur, but it has a lot of "wow" for some people.

[mbreslin]

I'm getting older and my vision is not as good as it once was, I understand the appeal of 120hz+ and also lightboost. But I'll keep my 30" panel (u3011 for a couple years and now u3014). I can deal with ~1frame of input lag and also a bit of blur when the scene gets really fast, my old eyes need the bigger screen real estate.

Different strokes.

(also vega is a nice guy, disparage the person who posted this in news, not vega he's done nothing)

[paulbagz]

Side question, if Catleap 2B OC can do 1440p@120hz, why have no other manufacturers made such a screen?

-PB

[GoldenTiger]

Side question, if Catleap 2B OC can do 1440p@120hz, why have no other manufacturers made such a screen?

-PB

I would say because there isn't a big enough commercial market that understands the benefits, and many engineers seem to think it's not doable inside of companies like LG from what I gather (they seem unaware of these panels' existence). Overlord made the Tempest X270OC which is basically the same thing (Korean panel + 2B-type PCB, they're making a newer housing as well now) but with a USA warranty, though. I'm sorely tempted to pre-order one of their newest batch...

[Rollo]

(wall of text that boils down to "We trade resolution, color, and screen size for better motion blur)

I get that it eliminates motion blur, just don't want to game on small monitors at low res.

The motion blur has never been a factor that makes me want to use grainy panels. This whole thing reminds me a LOT of the CRT vs LCD thing of days gone by. You'd see the CRT die hards championing the joys of gaming at 16X12 on a 19"CRT because only then could they be free of motion blur.

Or going back further, you'd have guys turning the image quality and res as low as they would go to try and get a leg up at online shooters.

I'd probably do the lightboost too if I stilled gamed online, framerate is life used to be the saying. Now, I just want the game to look good and the only thing I've seen that gives 25X16 a run for it's money is 3d Vision. (but I get tired of wearing the glasses because I wear glasses)

[Final8ty]

I'm getting older and my vision is not as good as it once was, I understand the appeal of 120hz+ and also lightboost. But I'll keep my 30" panel (u3011 for a couple years and now u3014). I can deal with ~1frame of input lag and also a bit of blur when the scene gets really fast, my old eyes need the bigger screen real estate.

Different strokes.

(also vega is a nice guy, disparage the person who posted this in news, not vega he's done nothing)

Cry all you want, there are mods who have even posted in this thread that could of moved it either to the Monitor section, NV section or Intel section ages ago, i very likely would of missed it in any of those.
But then it would not have gotten the attention it deserves (because the complete thing is an eye opener) and possibly many people would not of read it let alone posted in it, more good has come of it than harm.

Im going to go back to reading the useful info as a result of this thread.

[DefStar]

LightBoost is a half-assed applied technology so far. They discovered its (most likely) when applying Frame Sequential mode 3D mode. That is, my monitor does the same thing as LightBoost when i'm using frame sequential 3D mode. Now, Its all about the back light being off longer between frames (thus mimicking CRT monitors that don't have back lights)...that's why it's so much darker. Now, when the pixels light up for a frame, a flat panel's pixels do night burn as bright as the CRT phosphorus pixels (that's why flat panels have back lights in the first place i believe)... resulting in a dark washed out look. BUT WOW! there certainly is no blurring...it's pretty amazing how well it works.