AMD Discloses More Details About Sony PS4 System-on-Chip.

[ajaidev]

"Advanced Micro Devices on Thursday revealed additional details about the system-on-chip that powers Sony Corp.?s PlayStation 4 video game console. According to AMD, the accelerated processing unit inside the PS4 is the company?s first design win with semi-custom APU for high-volume applications with multi-year lifespan"

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multime...m_on_Chip.html

Sorry this deserves its own thread. So seems my suspicious were right its a huge arse APU with 1152 stream processors "7850 has 1024 and 7870 has 1280" and 8 Jag cores.

[LordEC911]

"Advanced Micro Devices on Thursday revealed additional details about the system-on-chip that powers Sony Corp.?s PlayStation 4 video game console. According to AMD, the accelerated processing unit inside the PS4 is the company?s first design win with semi-custom APU for high-volume applications with multi-year lifespan"

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multime...m_on_Chip.html

Sorry this deserves its own thread. So seems my suspicious were right its a huge arse APU with 1152 stream processors "7850 has 1024 and 7870 has 1280" and 8 Jag cores.

Interesting....

So the GDDR5 is running at ~5.5ghz on a 256bit interface. I know it says "unified" but you have to wonder if both the CPU and GPU have access to the full interface or if it is split or somehow able to dynamically adjust depending on workload.

Obviously the GPU side is running at 800mhz as has been known due to previous info.

[kromosto]

So the GDDR5 is running at ~5.5ghz on a 256bit interface. I know it says "unified" but you have to wonder if both the CPU and GPU have access to the full interface or if it is split or somehow able to dynamically adjust depending on workload.

good question.

[ajaidev]

Interesting....

So the GDDR5 is running at ~5.5ghz on a 256bit interface. I know it says "unified" but you have to wonder if both the CPU and GPU have access to the full interface or if it is split or somehow able to dynamically adjust depending on workload.

Obviously the GPU side is running at 800mhz as has been known due to previous info.

I think it would work something similar to Trinity, AMD Radeon Memory Bus linked with GPU buffer thus linking to the 8GB GDDR memory. Fusion Compute Link would felicitate the link from GPU buffer to GPU using a separate link controller than the memory controller due to speed differential. Off course IOMMU would be used for memory functions.

[haylui]

why Jaguar core instead of Piledriver? heat dissipation concern?

[informal]

why Jaguar core instead of Piledriver? heat dissipation concern?

Die area,perf./watt, manufacturing cost. Jaguar wins.

[ajaidev]

Interesting....


Obviously the GPU side is running at 800mhz as has been known due to previous info.

If anyone is interested he is talking about this:

http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-orbis-unveiled/

[haylui]

Die area,perf./watt, manufacturing cost. Jaguar wins.

performance/watt scale better than Piledriver?

[informal]

performance/watt scale better than Piledriver?

Definitely. Jaguar draws very little power and has comparable if not a bit better IPC. Clock would be probably a bit higher on PD based X8 chip but not by much I suspect. Die area would be noticeably bigger. If power and die area was not such a concern Sony would definitely had used PD X8.

[haylui]

Definitely. Jaguar draws very little power and has comparable if not a bit better IPC. Clock would be probably a bit higher on PD based X8 chip but not by much I suspect. Die area would be noticeably bigger. If power and die area was not such a concern Sony would definitely had used PD X8.

this would confused me why AMD don't come out with Jaguar as AMD FX instead?

[informal]

this would confused me why AMD don't come out with Jaguar as AMD FX instead?

It's simple. Jaguar cannot provide same perf. level as FX. First it cannot clock as high as its targeted frequency(by design/pipe depth) is at low 2Ghz range(if that). Second , it's made mostly by automated tools(much cheaper and faster,but lowers clock). Who would need a slightly better (IPC-wise) Jaguar FX X8 desktop chip that would clock @ 2Ghz,had nice TDP of just 45W but provide 1/3 or worse performance of 8350? Nobody. PD is designed for high clock and decent IPC(not stellar-SR should improve this part).

[haylui]

It's simple. Jaguar cannot provide same perf. level as FX. First it cannot clock as high as its targeted frequency(by design/pipe depth) is at low 2Ghz range(if that). Second , it's made mostly by automated tools(much cheaper and faster,but lowers clock). Who would need a slightly better (IPC-wise) Jaguar FX X8 desktop chip that would clock @ 2Ghz,had nice TDP of just 45W but provide 1/3 or worse performance of 8350? Nobody. PD is designed for high clock and decent IPC(not stellar-SR should improve this part).

If using automated tools to design a Jaguar core would have better IPC than a hand-tweaked PD (assuming PD vs Jaguar running at same frequency), and at the same time Jaguar achieved the implementation of HSA feature earlier than Trinity APU. It is really make no sense rolling out PD based design. Might as well AMD tweak the Jagaur core to run at 4GHz and roll it out.....

[AbortRetryFail?]

I think it would work something similar to Trinity, AMD Radeon Memory Bus linked with GPU buffer thus linking to the 8GB GDDR memory. Fusion Compute Link would felicitate the link from GPU buffer to GPU using a separate link controller than the memory controller due to speed differential. Off course IOMMU would be used for memory functions.

Yup. The UNB handles *Onion and Garlic*

[Tao~]

What were they planning when they put in 8GB RAM ? I would really like to see the software side (OS) of this machine.

Also , the GPU is stronger than anticipated but still WEAK. And now that I think of it Microsoft has little to gain by going with a more powerful configuration - Xbox Next might be weaker(owing to superior software) or same. Is it wrong to presume that a 7870 would be good enough to run most games @ 1080p for the next few years, that this will be the plateau where visual effects will come to rest since a console is architecturally same as a PC?

[Hornet331]

I still wonder what methods they employ to hide the high latency of gddr5 when the cpu needs to access the ram.

[Manicdan]

Also , the GPU is stronger than anticipated but still WEAK. And now that I think of it Microsoft has little to gain by going with a more powerful configuration - Xbox Next might be weaker(owing to superior software) or same. Is it wrong to presume that a 7870 would be good enough to run most games @ 1080p for the next few years, that this will be the plateau where visual effects will come to rest since a console is architecturally same as a PC?

i think it will be great. the cost to gain more polygons and higher texture resolution is incredibly expensive. things like tessellation and bump mapping are tricks employed to make graphics appear better than they really are, without requiring the performance needed to do it. were nearing that limit though. what is missing is physics. a few % loss in gpu power can make up for the eye candy with an environment that comes to life. the FIRST thing i noticed in the killzone video was the trees that never moved while we saw dust and debris all over the place. while the gpu power might not be all that impressive, the technology the have to work with should help make scenes much more inviting.

also keep in mind that there is a cost to using bigger parts. if you had to pick between 500$ and 800$, where the 800$ one upscaled everything from 720p to 1080p, do you really think you would have cared that much? if that option was real, i bet we would see most shoppers going with the 500$ one. im not saying some would happily pay a premium for quality (i know i spent more on my entertainment system than i should, but i get reminded why with nearly every movie i watch on it). but honestly they needed a balance between cost and quality. im just incredibly happy they used CGN instead of VWIL4

[informal]

If using automated tools to design a Jaguar core would have better IPC than a hand-tweaked PD (assuming PD vs Jaguar running at same frequency), and at the same time Jaguar achieved the implementation of HSA feature earlier than Trinity APU. It is really make no sense rolling out PD based design. Might as well AMD tweak the Jagaur core to run at 4GHz and roll it out.....

You don't get it. They couldn't design it to run at 4Ghz(deep vs short pipeline in Jaguar) AND to have low power draw(cannot clock to high targets) AND to keep such an IPC(like it has today,comparable to PD/K10). You cannot have all of those and on top of that have it done by cheap automated tools on low power process. These are all mutually exclusive. PD was designed for specific market segment(server and desktop/mainstream mobile) while Jaguar was designed for ULP segment(tablets/low power notebooks,netbooks,SFF,consoles). I hope you understand now why you cannot have things that you wish for.
PD is much better performing design from ultimate performance POV. Jaguar is much better design from ultimate perf./watt/mm^2 POV. These 2 categories are completely different.

[Rollo]

What were they planning when they put in 8GB RAM ? I would really like to see the software side (OS) of this machine.

Also , the GPU is stronger than anticipated but still WEAK. And now that I think of it Microsoft has little to gain by going with a more powerful configuration - Xbox Next might be weaker(owing to superior software) or same. Is it wrong to presume that a 7870 would be good enough to run most games @ 1080p for the next few years, that this will be the plateau where visual effects will come to rest since a console is architecturally same as a PC?

This is the thing I think of when I see these "Haha! Brand X has the console win(s)! Brand Y is DOOMED because all games will be optimized for Brand X now!".

Yeah sure- Brand Xs weak tit card.

Anyone think NV's card won't run games a 7860 (in effect) will run?

I'd say the same were the roles reversed, AMD's cards wouldn't have any trouble running upcoming games if there was a GTX650 going into every console. The console market is just about low midrange parts sold in bulk, not achieving gaming dominance.

Nonetheless, PS4 likely on my son's Christmas list, a well as new Xbox if it launches. Like every other family in America, we'll buy these. Not like you stay with the old consoles because compared to PCs, they're cheap.

[Mechanical Man]

You don't get it. They couldn't design it to run at 4Ghz(deep vs short pipeline in Jaguar) AND to have low power draw(cannot clock to high targets) AND to keep such an IPC(like it has today,comparable to PD/K10). You cannot have all of those and on top of that have it done by cheap automated tools on low power process. These are all mutually exclusive. PD was designed for specific market segment(server and desktop/mainstream mobile) while Jaguar was designed for ULP segment(tablets/low power notebooks,netbooks,SFF,consoles). I hope you understand now why you cannot have things that you wish for.
PD is much better performing design from ultimate performance POV. Jaguar is much better design from ultimate perf./watt/mm^2 POV. These 2 categories are completely different.

Everybody seems to forget the most important thing in jag vs pd.

Jag is 28nm desing, PD is 32nm SOI desing and GCN (the GPU) is 28nm desing. That is all there really is into this issue. Everything else is secondary.

[zalbard]

Jag is 28nm desing, PD is 32nm SOI desing and GCN (the GPU) is 28nm desing. That is all there really is into this issue. Everything else is secondary.

Good point! They wanted a matching tech process for both of the chips for sure.

[Manicdan]

what about trinity? they got high speed cpus paired up with gpus.

[Mechanical Man]

what about trinity? they got high speed cpus paired up with gpus.

1. Its VLIW arch, not GCN.
2. Im sure we can all agree 32nm SOI is not working that good there would be reasont to go for it over 28nm..

[dairyFarmer]

Interesting Processor.

I'd like one of these in my pc, but i guess theres no (mainstream) socket that could hold it.
8GB DDR5 for my desktop please

Think about is the roadmap for these. It now common for these consoles to go through regular product revisions, with shrunk/optimised processors.
Using a largely synthesised "simple" cpu like this (and GPU is all synthesised?) means it could likely be one of the first products to use a process node shrink (if its not too big). Which i bet sony is asking for. Also we know AMD is good at continually improving their process even on the same node, so its a safe bet for a company like sony looking forward 5 years.

Also another thing to think about, it really needs its 256bit memory controller to give it nice memory bandwidth for the GPU.
Standard PC version of jaguar has been upgraded to 128bit. For SOC's die size often controls how many memory controllers you can fit. So this being 2x jaguar modules (maybe not the correct term) allows a 256bit mem controller.
AMD has experience with DDR5 memory controllers, crossbar interfaces to on die gpu's etc, so I guess that is part of their customisation, and/or else future interfaces for heterogeneous compute as seen in the slides

I wonder if the PC/desktop version could have a DDR5 mem controller too?

[Musho]

I wonder if hackers will manage to install windows in the PS4. Technically it could work, right?

[zalbard]

I'd like one of these in my pc, but i guess theres no (mainstream) socket that could hold it.
8GB DDR5 for my desktop please

You don't want one.
There's one shared bus for both CPU and GPU. And neither get nearly as much bandwidth as you get in a proper desktop system.
It's a compromise.

I wonder if hackers will manage to install windows in the PS4. Technically it could work, right?

Should expect massive driver issues.

A PS4 is a PS4. It will not make a good PC.