memory skillz lost!

[Mtemel]

i lost my skillz! :P

back in the day i had good knowledge of how to overclock memory/cpu/mobo fsb, my best old setup was

dfi lanparty 2 mobo, gskill FF handpicked by onepagebook (old legand of this forum and parnter of gskill) and fx57 cpu combo

i was able to run 315 x 10 and with tight timings (cant remember what exactly 2.5.6.6.6 or so) and this would be so much better than 200 x 15 fsb, i pretty much played with most settings in bios over a long time to get this run benchies stable etc.

this was pretty epic back in those days :P


the problem i have is i have a family now and stressful job and dont really got the tiem to mess around so much.
And as for the new memory and how to over clock im kinda totally lost..

any help on this matter would be grand!


Maybe if someone had some time and patience to maybe help get some knowledge back and wouldnt mind sending me a few pms or maybe even add me to scype for a 20 min chat or something?

if anyone has the time or inclenation to do this i would be a happy chappy

muztee

[Ivanlabrie]

There are a few guides you can read, and a few threads too...If you have that sig rig of yours you're gonna be limited in mem oc headroom. If you get a Piledriver you can get some really awesome ram clocks and timings easily.
You won't see a benefit going higher than 2200mhz with AMD anyway, but it's fun to bench higher and get reaaaally high ddr3 speed validations for hwbot.
EDIT: I see you got an 8350! Great! I reccomend reading this guide here.

[AMDforME]

Yup now days OC'ing DDR3 RAM above the CPU's default frequency is pretty much only for bragging rights as test after test shows no significant gains in system performance with RAM frequencies above 1600 MHz., except for APUs where the grahics section can use the faster RAM frequency.

The FX-8350 has a nice high base clockspeed and OC's well. They are fun to play with. Some folks do run 2400+ MHz. with these but the RAM cost can only be justified for it's "entertainment" value, not increases in system performance in real apps. Finding the right balance of CPU Vcore and CPU-NB voltage is what results in the best OC with the Vishera CPUs, which OC slightly different than other CPUs, IME.

[Mtemel]

There are a few guides you can read, and a few threads too...If you have that sig rig of yours you're gonna be limited in mem oc headroom. If you get a Piledriver you can get some really awesome ram clocks and timings easily.
You won't see a benefit going higher than 2200mhz with AMD anyway, but it's fun to bench higher and get reaaaally high ddr3 speed validations for hwbot.
EDIT: I see you got an 8350! Great! I reccomend reading this guide here.

this guide is for intel but are the priciples the same?

its just u said great u got fx8350 read this guide i was expecting an amd guide :x

and also i see some people useing 4 modules of 4gb or even 8gb whats the best size memory i should go for? after i maximise my rig i ll be using it mainly for gaming do i need more than 2x 4gb?

quote"Yup now days OC'ing DDR3 RAM above the CPU's default frequency is pretty much only for bragging rights as test after test shows no significant gains in system performance with RAM frequencies above 1600 MHz quote"




does this mean i should just stick to 1600 mhz memory?

why wouldnt going higher than 1600 mhz show no significant gains? :o

im so confused

edit: i think it would be easier to ask this...
If you guys had my rig what memory would you be going for and how would you expect to set up fsb speeds and multiply?

in other words what should my goal be? back in the day it was passing 300fsb!!

My cpu seems to be stable upto around 4550 after initail tests so i assume i want to achive this with my memory with no divider at around 336 x 20 but im guessing here


p.s i updated my sig now

[Fr3ak]

...

Mtemel, I am totally with you. I feel pretty much the same. Things have become so different that it feels somewhat like living in a whole different century. Wait, that's exactly what it is

[Mtemel]

Mtemel, I am totally with you. I feel pretty much the same. Things have become so different that it feels somewhat like living in a whole different century. Wait, that's exactly what it is

hehe im glad im not alone

[Ivanlabrie]

this guide is for intel but are the priciples the same?

its just u said great u got fx8350 read this guide i was expecting an amd guide :x

and also i see some people useing 4 modules of 4gb or even 8gb whats the best size memory i should go for? after i maximise my rig i ll be using it mainly for gaming do i need more than 2x 4gb?

quote"Yup now days OC'ing DDR3 RAM above the CPU's default frequency is pretty much only for bragging rights as test after test shows no significant gains in system performance with RAM frequencies above 1600 MHz quote"




does this mean i should just stick to 1600 mhz memory?

why wouldnt going higher than 1600 mhz show no significant gains? :o

im so confused

edit: i think it would be easier to ask this...
If you guys had my rig what memory would you be going for and how would you expect to set up fsb speeds and multiply?

in other words what should my goal be? back in the day it was passing 300fsb!!

My cpu seems to be stable upto around 4550 after initail tests so i assume i want to achive this with my memory with no divider at around 336 x 20 but im guessing here


p.s i updated my sig now

Try to get a 2200 or 2133mhz oc out of whatever ram you buy and have decent timings. Your best bet is Crucial memory, 4gb size. You can get tight timings at 2133mhz or 2000mhz with it and that will net you the best performance out of your rig. You're limited by the integrated memory controller, which can't handle speeds over 2133mhz. Anything over that will net absolutely no improvement.

I posted the guide to show you the different types of ddr3 memory available these days and their properties. Read it
Crucial Ballistix Tactical Tracers are good and cheap, there's a thread here showing how good they on on an fx rig.

[AMDforME]

and also i see some people useing 4 modules of 4gb or even 8gb whats the best size memory i should go for? after i maximise my rig i ll be using it mainly for gaming do i need more than 2x 4gb?

quote"Yup now days OC'ing DDR3 RAM above the CPU's default frequency is pretty much only for bragging rights as test after test shows no significant gains in system performance with RAM frequencies above 1600 MHz quote"

8 GB. of RAM is all that most people need even for gaming. a 2x 4GB. kit is the way to go as it's easier for the memory controller with it only needing to access two RAM sockets. Four DIMMs requires more access time, often costs more and have a higher chance of failure, so that's not the way to go IME.

RAM faster than 1600 MHz. won't provide any tangible system performance gain because DDR3 @ 1600 MHz. is not a system bottleneck. Faster RAM is basically for bragging rights but if you want it, go for it.

Here's a simple analogy that might help.

If you have a water pump (think CPU) that can pump 5 gallons of water per minute (think data) and you have a garden hose (think 1600 MHz. RAM) that can flow 7 gallons of water per minute, you are only going to get 5 gallons of water out of the end of the hose even though the hose is capable of flowing 7 gallons per minute.

If you replace the garden hose with a fire hose that can flow 100 gallons per minute (think 2000+ MHz. RAM), you're still only going to get 5 gallons per minute out of the fire hose, because that's all the engine (CPU) can deliver. Neither the garden hose (1600 MHz. RAM) nor the fire hose (2000+ MHz. RAM) is a restriction to the flow of water (data in a PC), so a bigger hose (faster RAM), doesn't buy you any system performance gains, because the RAM @ 1600 MHz. isn't a system bottleneck.

Since 1600 MHz. RAM isn't a limiting factor in data flow of a typical desktop PC, (excluding APUs where the GPU section can use the added bandwidth of faster RAM), then faster RAM makes such a minute difference, it's not worth paying extra for unless you are willing to pay for the entertainment factor, aka bragging rights. Your typical CPU based desktop system will deliver the same basic performance with 1600 MHz. or 2800 MHz. DDR3 RAM. Right now 1600 MHz. and 1866 MHz. the default FX CPU RAM frequency, are priced about the same. Any of the brand name 1600/1866 MHz. RAM will produce the same system performance as the 2000+ MHz. RAM.

Anandtech and Tom's Hardware along with numerous other sources, has done extensive testing on this and the RAM reviews are still available on their websites. They tested from 1600 MHz. to 2133+ MHz. and their conclusion was that there is no significant system performance gain with the faster than 1600 MHz. RAM. In most cases 1333 MHz. is actually not a system bottleneck. Everyone can test this with their own PC and apps. and see for themselves.

You should buy whatever RAM makes you happy. Newer mobo BIOS allow a lot of RAM frequencies and timing settings. Your mobo OM should explain your options. You may not need to mess with the FSB unless you desire to do so. It's your choice and either will produce the same results.

It's worth noting that the synthetic RAM benches exaggerate the "potential" performance gains with faster RAM. It assumes the RAM is saturated 100% of the time, which it never is so the gains are minute at best.

And if you want more surprising news... Lower RAM latency makes even less system performance improvement than the higher frequency RAM. There are two reasons for this:

1. As RAM frequency increases, one RAM clock cycle decreases in real time. Thus a change of one clock cycle in RAM timings makes very little difference compared to the old days of DDR or even DDR2 RAM with lower frequencies and longer real time for one clock cycle

2. With the added bandwidth of DDR3, RAM latencies simple have minimal influence on system performance because the RAM isn't a system bottleneck thus making minute changes in the RAM timings or even big changes in the RAM frequency, make almost no change at all in system performance. The reason why RAM sellers hype the faster RAM is because is generates much more profit than the std. 1600 MHz. RAM.

It's always better to spend more money on a faster CPU or GPU than faster RAM than 1600 MHz. for a typical CPU based desktop PC . If however you have more money than you know what to do with then you have two options:

1. Send the extra money to me...or

2. Buy faster RAM if it makes you happy.

[Reefa_Madness]

AMDforME, while there is a ton of validity in what you just posted, can I simply remind you that, by golly, you're posting that on XtremeSystems!

[Ivanlabrie]

And the OP wanted to learn about ram overclocking...

[AMDforME]

AMDforME, while there is a ton of validity in what you just posted, can I simply remind you that, by golly, you're posting that on XtremeSystems!

I am fully aware of where I am posting this information. I advised the OP on how much RAM he should buy, how many DIMMs to buy and what frequency RAM to buy and why. Then I answered the rest of his questions about RAM frequency and timings. People here are totally free to discard this information if they aren't interested in factual information on the subject.

If you read my post(s) carefully, I mentioned that people should buy what makes them happy including buying RAM for the entertainment factor. As far as buying it for increased system performance - which doesn't happen, the OP was surprised to learn this reality as are most folks who haven't actually done the testing or research on real world RAM performance.

I see people in hardware and RAM forums all over the internet who falsely believe that faster RAM frequency above 1600 MHz. or lower RAM timings actually produces a noticeable improvement in system performance, which testing shows it does not.

As with the OP, many come from a number of years back when DDR and DDR2 was the bleeding edge and upping RAM frequency and lowering RAM timings would actually result in some meaningful system performance gain, but those days are gone for typical desktop applications, yet many are being mislead by marketing hype into concluding that faster RAM = better system performance.

The OP stated he's busy with a family and doesn't have the time to deal with learning how to OC the current RAM for better performance. The point is there is no point in learning how to OC current RAM as the timings and frequency make no significant improvement in system performance.

If the OP actually had the time to play with current RAM then I'd suggest he read the recommended test data at Tom's and Anandtech first and then if he wanted to continue learning about current DDR3 RAM tweaking, there are a variety of tutorials including AMDs Over Drive applet and tutorial for tuning the CPU and RAM.

http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/AM...ning_Guide.pdf

Since the OP stated he doesn't have the time to play and he just wanted to know the best RAM to buy and how to tweak it, I answered his question and provided the background information so he could understand WHY there is no significant performance advantage to RAM faster than 1600 MHz. for current desktop PCs other than APU based systems and that changing the timings provides even less performance gains than frequency changes which produce no tangible system gains at all. At no time did I discourage him or anyone else from playing with faster RAM if that is what they desire to do.

Knowledge is power. Consider my posts on the subject a public service announcement. For most people it's pretty frustrating to buy over-hyped faster RAM, especially at a premium price only to find that it provides no signifcant gains in system performance.

[Reefa_Madness]

Did you see the smiley face at the end of my post?

It was put there to let you know that I was just having a little fun with you. I wasn't asking you to justify, explain, nor defend your post...just to acknowledge the humor of posting your responses in the Xtreme Bandwidth section of Xtreme Systems.

I"m sure that the OP will appreciate what you are trying to share with him.

[Mtemel]

guys

im sticking with my 1600 ram and i apprciated all comments !!

amdforme s and ivanlabri s post's were very informative thanks!!

[AMDforME]

guys

im sticking with my 1600 ram and i apprciated all comments !!

amdforme s and ivanlabri s post's were very informative thanks!!

Glad to help.