Geforce Titan - GK110 will be a consumer part

[Rollo]

Irony much?

Anywho, no way would I ever pay $899 for one GPU, those days are long gone.

I'm probably not a buyer at $899 either, a lot of money for a vid card when I'm pretty satisfied with the cards I have. (680Sli in one box, 7970 in the other)

[aussie-revhead]

If GK110 is being released now you have to believe it's just to ensure AMD's 8970 doesn't have things all it's way until the 780 is released.

You don't think GTX780=GK110? I always assumed they were the same thing, maybe I am wrong....

Default speed, noise + power consumption will always be the N1, N2 and N3 deciding factors for a purchase of a graphics card.

Overclocability will never come above those items for the average consumer.

If the average consumer thought noise was the second most important factor in buying a new vid card then neither camp would ever sell a reference vid card again ....

But more than all...that horsepower for playing what?

For benchmarking of course, what else would you do with these? Oh and smooth-as-butter 120Hz+ BF3 on ultra, or over three screens even better, there is always a use for a powerful single gpu.

[LiquidReactor]

A shame, it's drool-worthy but I'm not sure how much faster (if it's only a 732mhz core with 5200mhz mem @ 384-bit) it would be than my 24/7 oc'd 1370mhz core/6900mhz mem (@ 256-bit) GTX 670 Gigabyte Windforce 3, which also is nice and quiet thanks to its custom cooler.

Still, I have NO doubt these will sell out quickly and easily for nVidia. And, if they're overclockable well at all, I'll still be drooling. However, I'll hold out for the GTX 780 if it's significantly faster, or Maxwell.

Damn,..nice card you got over there! Is 1370 mhz core before or after boost clock?

[Iconyu]

If this generation turns out as I'm expecting, Nvidia will need to release a bigger card for one reason, next generation games are going to be VERY gpu processing heavy and the 680 is very weak in that area. AMD have a balanced card, and all consoles have half the shader count of the AMD flag ship. So while this rumoured Titan might be large and hard to overclock, it could be the nvidia card this upcoming generation needs.

The hurdle for nvidia will be the fact that while the initial performance will be better than the jump from 480-580 a lot of gamers will feel it's still underpowered for its size and heat output. But to beat the 7970 hands down in those newly critical areas it'll need to be big unless nvidia have a real shader rebuild.

[Dimitriman]

If the average consumer thought noise was the second most important factor in buying a new vid card then neither camp would ever sell a reference vid card again ....

Reference card is not THAT noisy if not overclocked you know...

[aussie-revhead]

Depends on who's listening, just about every ref card I have ever owned are annoyingly noisey (TO ME ANYWAY)

[Rollo]

If this generation turns out as I'm expecting, Nvidia will need to release a bigger card for one reason, next generation games are going to be VERY gpu processing heavy and the 680 is very weak in that area. AMD have a balanced card, and all consoles have half the shader count of the AMD flag ship. So while this rumoured Titan might be large and hard to overclock, it could be the nvidia card this upcoming generation needs.

The hurdle for nvidia will be the fact that while the initial performance will be better than the jump from 480-580 a lot of gamers will feel it's still underpowered for its size and heat output. But to beat the 7970 hands down in those newly critical areas it'll need to be big unless nvidia have a real shader rebuild.

I love the "NVIDIA is screwed! All the upcoming consoles will be AMD!" posts.

A. The GPUs in consoles are feeble compared to the GPUs we buy, and they have to make the games playable at 1080P on them. In other words, next gen consoles aren't going look like PhysX tech demos just because they are next gen consoles.

B. The feeble little GPUs in consoles have feeble little CPUs pushing them, and in the console world, your game has to run smooth. The console port games aren't exactly reknowned for pushing computer gaming forward.

C. Last, it's never really mattered much which GPU is in consoles. ATi cards always ran the original Xbox ports and PS3 ports, and NVIDIA runs 360 ports. They have to be coded to run in DirectX, not "OS360" or whatever those things use.

The console factor is very much misunderstood. A console contract means you get to sell a bunch of your lowest end product at razor thin margins, not that "Yay! We win! Our competitor will be gone next year!". Ask intel if they care about not having any CPUs in consoles.

[GoldenTiger]

Damn,..nice card you got over there! Is 1370 mhz core before or after boost clock?

That's the full-load boost clock which it runs at full-time . I've run it at 1392mhz stable as well but it seems to get a lot hotter at that point, and obviously the performance gain is minimal comparatively.

Bench/pic link from several months ago ... http://imageshack.us/a/img689/7364/g...entigerfin.jpg

[Ket]

Personally, I think this move is to try and shift some stock they have a backlog of. Lets be honest, who with a OCd HD7950 or GTX670 has problems running any current games? Unless you are running triple monitors a single OCd 7950 or 670 can deal with most games on dual monitors, running dual 7950s or 670s OCd are capable of running anything on dual monitors and a lot of stuff on triple. Then lets not forget about the super affordable Tahiti LE based cards that pack one hell of a punch. ?170 for a CLUB3D HD7870XT jokerCard is extremely appealing to joe average and the enthusiast alike.

[GoldenTiger]

Personally, I think this move is to try and shift some stock they have a backlog of. Lets be honest, who with a OCd HD7950 or GTX670 has problems running any current games? Unless you are running triple monitors a single OCd 7950 or 670 can deal with most games on dual monitors, running dual 7950s or 670s OCd are capable of running anything on dual monitors and a lot of stuff on triple. Then lets not forget about the super affordable Tahiti LE based cards that pack one hell of a punch. ?170 for a CLUB3D HD7870XT jokerCard is extremely appealing to joe average and the enthusiast alike.

I'd like a scrap more performance, but I run 2560x1600... turning down one notch of antialiasing or whatnot for minimal visual impact generally "fixes" my framerate to a high, solid number though .

[Iconyu]

I love the "NVIDIA is screwed! All the upcoming consoles will be AMD!" posts.

A. The GPUs in consoles are feeble compared to the GPUs we buy, and they have to make the games playable at 1080P on them. In other words, next gen consoles aren't going look like PhysX tech demos just because they are next gen consoles.

B. The feeble little GPUs in consoles have feeble little CPUs pushing them, and in the console world, your game has to run smooth. The console port games aren't exactly reknowned for pushing computer gaming forward.

C. Last, it's never really mattered much which GPU is in consoles. ATi cards always ran the original Xbox ports and PS3 ports, and NVIDIA runs 360 ports. They have to be coded to run in DirectX, not "OS360" or whatever those things use.

The console factor is very much misunderstood. A console contract means you get to sell a bunch of your lowest end product at razor thin margins, not that "Yay! We win! Our competitor will be gone next year!". Ask intel if they care about not having any CPUs in consoles.

I never said anything of the sort, just because nvidia aren't shipping a consumer high DP part today doesn't mean much, Titan will ship before either console and that's all that matters. Even if nvidia doesn't skew the performance in favour of double precision the card is big enough to do the job.

a) The console GPU's are not feeble in comparison to what's expected of them

b) The CPU's aren't feeble in comparison to what's expected of them

c) Again this wasn't my point, the 680 is only really weak in a single area that didn't matter to gamers, next year it will matter, but it will be replaced long before that tipping point.

[crash5s]

I love the "NVIDIA is screwed! All the upcoming consoles will be AMD!" posts.

A. The GPUs in consoles are feeble compared to the GPUs we buy, and they have to make the games playable at 1080P on them. In other words, next gen consoles aren't going look like PhysX tech demos just because they are next gen consoles.

B. The feeble little GPUs in consoles have feeble little CPUs pushing them, and in the console world, your game has to run smooth. The console port games aren't exactly reknowned for pushing computer gaming forward.

C. Last, it's never really mattered much which GPU is in consoles. ATi cards always ran the original Xbox ports and PS3 ports, and NVIDIA runs 360 ports. They have to be coded to run in DirectX, not "OS360" or whatever those things use.

The console factor is very much misunderstood. A console contract means you get to sell a bunch of your lowest end product at razor thin margins, not that "Yay! We win! Our competitor will be gone next year!". Ask intel if they care about not having any CPUs in consoles.

On the other hand in consoles you can code straight to the metal so to speak. They aren't gimped like PCs where you can't get all the performance out of the chips and have to go through multiple layers. The PC is pretty much a worthless pile of crap that never gets real performance out of the parts, it's comedically bad at gaming when you're honest about it. It has to do it all through brute force, it's not very elegant at all. A lot of people don't get that, but it's the way things work. It doesn't have much of an effect on who makes the hardware, but there is always something said to being on the native platform. It's why games always play best on what they were made for.

It's also why trying to guess where consoles will be by the parts is an exercise in insanity, they get far more out of their parts than those parts would on the PC.

[zalbard]

The console factor is very much misunderstood. A console contract means you get to sell a bunch of your lowest end product at razor thin margins, not that "Yay! We win! Our competitor will be gone next year!". Ask intel if they care about not having any CPUs in consoles.

Pretty sure the profits are significant just due to volume of sales.

[stangracin3]

I love the "NVIDIA is screwed! All the upcoming consoles will be AMD!" posts.

A. The GPUs in consoles are feeble compared to the GPUs we buy, and they have to make the games playable at 1080P on them. In other words, next gen consoles aren't going look like PhysX tech demos just because they are next gen consoles. False

B. The feeble little GPUs in consoles have feeble little CPUs pushing them, and in the console world, your game has to run smooth. The console port games aren't exactly reknowned for pushing computer gaming forward.False, hell the PS3 could fold and be used as an htpc...

C. Last, it's never really mattered much which GPU is in consoles. ATi cards always ran the original Xbox ports and PS3 ports, and NVIDIA runs 360 ports. They have to be coded to run in DirectX, not "OS360" or whatever those things use. False, you do realize both AMD and Nvidia fight for said contracts?

The console factor is very much misunderstood. A console contract means you get to sell a bunch of your lowest end product at razor thin margins, not that "Yay! We win! Our competitor will be gone next year!". Ask intel if they care about not having any CPUs in consoles.Not Intels market, but i will bet that if the consoles wanted to drop something like SB in there they would care alot.

Rollo you continue to prove you have no idea what you are talking about, please quit acting like you do. Yes the product margins may be razor thin but I gaurantee you that for how many consoles are sold AMD makes bank off that. You also have to remember OEM's don't really trust Nvidia to make mobile chips anymore after the mobile 6150 days so there is another market that AMD and Intel completely have taken over. All that is really left is HPC servers, normal desktop (which is dominated by integrated so no nvidia is really there), and enthusiast which is pretty much shared equally between AMD and Nvidia. IIRC Nvidia does pretty good in the HPC space unless they started to use wood screws there also.

[Rollo]

I never said anything of the sort, just because nvidia aren't shipping a consumer high DP part today doesn't mean much, Titan will ship before either console and that's all that matters. Even if nvidia doesn't skew the performance in favour of double precision the card is big enough to do the job.

a) The console GPU's are not feeble in comparison to what's expected of them

b) The CPU's aren't feeble in comparison to what's expected of them

c) Again this wasn't my point, the 680 is only really weak in a single area that didn't matter to gamers, next year it will matter, but it will be replaced long before that tipping point.

My apologies if you weren't on the "NVIDIA is doomed" due to consoles tangent I see a fair amount lately.

Why do you think games will be DP/compute intensive to the extent NVIDIA owners of the 6X gen will be disadvantaged? Source?

[SKYMTL]

Pretty sure the profits are significant just due to volume of sales.

Actually, no.

If you go back and look at ATI's investor reports from when they were shipping Xenos in volume for the 360, there was very little uptick in positive cash flow. The same goes for the design wins of ATI/AMD for the Wii and WiiU.

The reasoning behind this is quite simple and I'll use the Xenos chip as an example. It may have been loosely based upon ATI's R520 architecture but the similarities were few and far between. It (like the upcoming console SoCs will likely be) was a custom chip which likely cost no small amount of money to develop, test and manufacture. That relatively large initial startup cost is unfortunately tied at the hip to the underlying necessity of all console hardware: keep it inexpensive in order to maximize profiles.

Granted, some consoles have taken the loss-leader approach by selling the hardware slightly below cost in order to maximize software sales but I doubt that will happen this time around. Razor thin margins necessitates an avoidance of that practice.

So where does that leave AMD? They'll surely make money off of the popularity (one hopes) of the next gen consoles but I doubt it will make a huge difference in their quarterly reports. Nor will it help the overall longterm financial viability of the company. What these design wins MAY help in development of next-gen SoC designs and will go a long way towards validating AMD's Fusion initiative but not much else.

[Rollo]

Rollo you continue to prove you have no idea what you are talking about, please quit acting like you do. Yes the product margins may be razor thin but I gaurantee you that for how many consoles are sold AMD makes bank off that. You also have to remember OEM's don't really trust Nvidia to make mobile chips anymore after the mobile 6150 days so there is another market that AMD and Intel completely have taken over. All that is really left is HPC servers, normal desktop (which is dominated by integrated so no nvidia is really there), and enthusiast which is pretty much shared equally between AMD and Nvidia. IIRC Nvidia does pretty good in the HPC space unless they started to use wood screws there also.

The PS3 chip you refer to was a 7900GT chip with 8 ROPS disabled, less VRAM, VRAM on a 128 bit bus. It was not a "powerful" GPU in NVIDIA's product line then or now. It is what consoles need: a low power requirement GPU that could be built and sold cheap to fit in a device that sells for $300..

If the upcoming consoles have a GPU that is half of a 7970, those are going to be doing something GTX660s-680s can't do? LOL Sure they will.

BTW- have any source for AMD "totally taking over the laptop market"? LOL

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderd...cuts-consoles/

AMD’s market share in desktop computers in the quarter decline from 40.7% in Q2 to 35.7%, while Nvidia’s rose from 59.3% to 64.3%. In notebook computers, AMD’s share fell more dramatically, from 44.8% to 34.2%, while Nvidia’s share rose from 55.2% to 65.8%.

Look chief, I don't want to post this crap about how AMD is basically spiralling toward bankruptcy and losing marketshare on all fronts, but if you call me a clueless a$$hole I'm going to do it.

I want AMD to succeed, and will continue to support them in spite of (some of) their fans seeming to have a mission to flame me.

[Kain665]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but the point of Microsoft creating their "Xbox" console line was to have a console using their API (DirectX). In fact the xbox was originally destined to be the "directXbox".

I keep seeing people refer to the Xbox as having some obscure 3D API...

[onewingedangel]

You don't think GTX780=GK110? I always assumed they were the same thing, maybe I am wrong....

I'd expect any GK110-based consumer card to be a special-edition gap-filler before a GK114(scaled up GK104)-based GTX 780 is released at a more affordable price point.

I feel it would be akin to Intels release of the first Pentium 4 Extreme Edition using the Gallatin Xeon - rather than be embarrassed by the competition, pull a product from your enterprise line to hold the fort if only for marketing/publicity purposes.

[tajoh111]

Rollo you continue to prove you have no idea what you are talking about, please quit acting like you do. Yes the product margins may be razor thin but I gaurantee you that for how many consoles are sold AMD makes bank off that. You also have to remember OEM's don't really trust Nvidia to make mobile chips anymore after the mobile 6150 days so there is another market that AMD and Intel completely have taken over. All that is really left is HPC servers, normal desktop (which is dominated by integrated so no nvidia is really there), and enthusiast which is pretty much shared equally between AMD and Nvidia. IIRC Nvidia does pretty good in the HPC space unless they started to use wood screws there also.

Yikes, you don't know what you are talking about. Just google any recent mobile marketshare of discrete mobile AMD vs Nvidia and you will be shocked that Nvidia has a pretty sizable lead in the mobile space. The only way AMD catches up is if they start including their integration GPU found in fusion. But that a market Nvidia can't even enter because they don't make a CPU.

IF your saying AMD cornered the market on GPU's along with Intel. It is fairer to say that Intel has corned the entire GPU market altogether because I wouldn't even put Nvidia and AMD in the same league as Intel if we include integrated market share. AMD mobile chips still sell badly and their margins are so bad on their fusion chips in general that they have a hard time making money.

Rollo sometimes does spread misinformation, but if your going to do the same your no better. The bias in your post reminds me of Charlie from semiaccurate. E.g talking about woodscrews still, saying oem's don't trust Nvidia, Nvidia has lost the discrete market in general because of integrated. AMD and Nvidia share the market equally at the moment(Nvidia has a lead in the desktop marketshare too). Look at there revenue numbers.

[CrazyNutz]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but the point of Microsoft creating their "Xbox" console line was to have a console using their API (DirectX). In fact the xbox was originally destined to be the "directXbox".

I keep seeing people refer to the Xbox as having some obscure 3D API...

Yeah as far as i remember xbox uses dx9 API (with some added, or changed features).

[SKYMTL]

Yikes, you don't know what you are talking about. Just google any recent mobile marketshare of discrete mobile AMD vs Nvidia and you will be shocked that Nvidia has a pretty sizable lead in the mobile space. The only way AMD catches up is if they start including their integration GPU found in fusion. But that a market Nvidia can't even enter because they don't make a CPU.

IF your saying AMD cornered the market on GPU's along with Intel. It is fairer to say that Intel has corned the entire GPU market altogether because I wouldn't even put Nvidia and AMD in the same league as Intel if we include integrated market share. AMD mobile chips still sell badly and their margins are so bad on their fusion chips in general that they have a hard time making money.

Rollo sometimes does spread misinformation, but if your going to do the same your no better. The bias in your post reminds me of Charlie from semiaccurate. E.g talking about woodscrews still, saying oem's don't trust Nvidia, Nvidia has lost the discrete market in general because of integrated. AMD and Nvidia share the market equally at the moment(Nvidia has a lead in the desktop marketshare too). Look at there revenue numbers.

I don't want to take this thread that far off topic but I just wanted to expand upon this a bit.

Contrary to what some believe, Llano really didn't sell all that well. AMD actually had to take a $100 million write down due to lower than expected demand which led to excess inventory.

[vitchilo]

a) The console GPU's are not feeble in comparison to what's expected of them

Really? They couldn't even run most new games at 1080p... every single time they needed to run at lower resolutions and with crappy framerates.

[SKYMTL]

Really? They couldn't even run most new games at 1080p... every single time they needed to run at lower resolutions and with crappy framerates.

The last generation was typically 720P which looked ok on 1080P screens. This generation (IMO) must be able to run 1080P WITH anti aliasing AND 4K upscaling if Sony and MS have any hope of these consoles sticking around for another 5+ years.

[kuroikenshi]

^^ 4K? that's a tall order, but I agree, since 4k tv's are slowly starting to surface on the market.... Hell some TV manufacturers have already got pilot models of 8K screens.