what is this copper colored residue crap in my res? (pics)

[ZeroOne]

Is this algae? Doesn't look like I thought it would. Fourth computer with a water loop, and never had this issue, so, not really sure.

The color is rust / copper color, and seems to accumulate at the waterline. The flowmeter has the slightest hint of the copper color as well, uniformly throughout and also seen on the white center spoke of the paddle wheel.

Ran PT Nuke (5 or 6 drops) and distilled at first (3-4 weeks). Had minimal clouding in the affected areas, especially along the waterline. Drained and refilled, thinking the slight clouding was too much PT Nuke since this is a very small loop. Used only distilled for about a week and then this copper discoloration started to appear along the waterline where it was once only slightly cloudy. Just put more PT Nuke in again, fearing it may be algae. The acrylic seems perfectly clear everywhere except the affected areas. There is that slightest hint of the rust color in the flowmeter though. I hope the pics show it clearly. Look in the upper corners of the res.

Thanks for any advice.
01

[ZeroOne]

The more I stare at it..... I'm afraid it's the very beginning of algae... not sure though. :/

[Gimmpy224]

It just looks like where the water line used to be, and over time little bits have evaporated out and it leaves that residue, which is typically minerals or anything else that was in the water at the time.

So any additives or minor dust particles that had accumulated in it.


And dont kid yourself, just because it says distilled water does not mean it is 100% pure H2O.

[ZeroOne]

Regular light from an incandescent bulb might be better to show the color and coverage of this stuff... here are a few more shots of the pump impeller and paddles in the flow meter.... Mold maybe?


There is definitely SOMETHING in there that's getting worse. Heading towards a tear-down... New tubing and Mayhems Biocide Extreme on the way... lots of PT Nuke in there now. Non-phn version. Pretty old bottle.

[Conumdrum]

You sir have some sort of growth. It can come in many colors. Kill it before it mutates to a Zombie.

Honestly, great pics. It's a diff color than what shows up in a pool in corners when algae grows etc. You new pic #7 is pretty evident. The growth likes air and moisture, thus the growth on the sides away from the water level.

Did you boil the water first and wash everything? I even put boiling water in my glass measuring cup and dump it before putting distilled water straight from the jug into the glass measuring cup.

There are strains of nasties that might laugh at PT Nuke. Maybe. No matter what something is growing in there and you can let it run till temps go to heck, try PHN Nuke, maybe .999 silver.

You got unlucky and tough, such a nice rig, gonna be hard to tear it all down and sterilize.

Don't think it's a component in the case meaning metal etc.

Could of had some nasty alien growth from outer space that lodged in there.

I think it's a growth, and ack, best of luck.

[Martinm210]

Looks like either growth or perhaps the coating coming off of the black painted fittings.
Black fittings in general have a pretty poor coating strength, perhaps some of it has come of internally and when combined with the brass fitting changed color a bit.

The only time I have had an orange deposit issue it was actual rust from an old fitting design that used steel plugs, but that didn't rise to the surface. I would think something lighter than water such as algae or perhaps some sort of powder/paint like residue caused this as a guess.

Time to flush and clean things up, should be easily cleaned up with a few hours time.

[Petra]

Interesting.... I can't say that I've seen anything exactly like that before. I will say, however, that there are quite a few things that the copper sulfate in Nuke -Cu won't kill. The Nuke -PHN (benzalkonium chloride) is a bit more broad-spectrum but, like all biocides, also has its own shortcomings.

On a somewhat related note, the Nuke -Cu shouldn't really age/expire but the Nuke -PHN will.

*edit* Correction: I encountered an old loop where some o-rings/gaskets were degrading and it coated things in a brown-ish film.

[CrazyNutz]

Looks like the mustard (yellow) algae I get in my pool in the summer. The bright lighting you have is very helpful to the growth. I would keep the lights off until you tear your loop down just
in case it is something growing.

[Church]

Pitty it's hard to setup big count of loops to simulate different component combinations and run long enough to study algae growth issues in depth. Counted very few testloops/configurations won't cover enough variants to draw good conclusions.

[ZeroOne]

Thanks for all of the replies and info.... going to tear everything down this weekend and go to town with a toothbrush and bleach. It's a grand total of 2ft of tube, so no loss there. Hoping the radiator, flow meter, and reservoir can be cleaned enough to not have this stuff re-grow. None of the hard parts besides the CPU block are really open to being scrubbed thoroughly. Read the threads though... will give it a shot. Years of WC, but first time with this type of thing. Guess I let my guard down. Water was hot though. This loop was allowed to reach 30C water temp for a while, as part of testing a passive radiator / cycling fan speed at load. Maybe that's part of it.

[CrazyNutz]

Be sure you get everything really REALLY clean. I have had crap regrow just days after cleaning.

I used this to clean the second time after regrowth occurred. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lysol-Orig...fl-oz/17352483 Totally stopped it. WARNING make sure you dilute it properly, and you'll have to test a small spot on plastic parts
because It may attack it. As for using it inside your rad you don't have to worry. Also you'll have to flush with clean water for a while to get the cleaner all out.

[Rinaun]

A trick I used to purge components of debris/crud was to remove the aerator on a faucet, connect 1/2" tubing straight up to a barb on the radiator from the faucet (I forced the tubing into/onto the faucet) and then run really hot water through everything but the pump and block. Using this method, I flushed my thermochill radiator which had MASSIVE amounts of flux everywhere to sterile conditions in about 5-10 minutes of untouchable hot water. I cleaned my res by hand, but I'd try warm/hot water with dish soap to remove the algae, etc.

With the blocks, you can use hot water but I've found taking them apart and using an electric toothbrush and some ketchup works best. If your problem is mainly algae use a diluted concentration of vinegar (not sure on the ratio) to break down and kill algae. I'm not sure on the ratio and it's effects on acrylic so I'd do some more research into using vinegar on plastics. For cleaning everything metal it's 100% safe.

Edit: double checked; vinegar is fine in acrylics. I've heard of people using a 20:1 water:vinegar ratio. Vinegar will loosen/break up algae and clean copper. I would NOT use it long-term in your loop.

[ZeroOne]

Well, it's 1am and... how do you clean the impeller of a D5 pump?

Got the res clean with a combination of bleach -> baking soda + shaking -> bleach -> q-tip. Radiator got vinegar for 10min, shake, rinse, bleach, rinse, soak with distilled, shake. Seems pretty clean. To be honest, I'm using strong bleach mixes of around 25%. Nothing on the o-rings tho, and rinsing well. Effing mess. Will post pics soon.

[Rinaun]

Well, it's 1am and... how do you clean the impeller of a D5 pump?

Got the res clean with a combination of bleach -> baking soda + shaking -> bleach -> q-tip. Radiator got vinegar for 10min, shake, rinse, bleach, rinse, soak with distilled, shake. Seems pretty clean. To be honest, I'm using strong bleach mixes of around 25%. Nothing on the o-rings tho, and rinsing well. Effing mess. Will post pics soon.

Depends on how dirty the impeller is. I'd just run your bleach mixture through it if you didn't have any huge issues with debris at the beginning.

[ZeroOne]

With the amount of bleach used... I'm thinking its ok. Ended up using a q-tip to clear out the holes.

Here's the next big question... I have some old Pentosin G11 from Petra's.... blue. Ethylene glycol. Should I be adding something like this to prevent corrosion and algae in the future with a loop that has had this happen? (algae and caustic cleaners applied to parts)

[ZeroOne]

Is anyone checking the pH of their water? Didn't realize slightly acidic (low pH) promotes algae growth. Wondering if I had ideal conditions for something like that. Tested acidic just now, with everything rebuilt. Slight bit of dissolved baking soda fixed that. Just above neutral now... slightly alkaline.

[CrazyNutz]

Actually algae causes pH to swing high to low. pH will rise when the algae is active and flourishing (i.e when the sun is shining, or in your case when that bright light is on).

Anyhow as for the ideal pH, it's neutral, or slightly alkaline.


In all reality the best way to keep algae from forming is by not providing an environment that supports it's life.

Heres A list of things that affects algae growth the most:

1). Light Source (for photosynthesis) << this is the big one!
2). Food, phosphates this is what algae eat (I use a chem call phosfree in my swimming pool to remove the phosphates)
3). Warm water.

[ZeroOne]

Definitely had 1 and 3 covered... with lights and 100F water. Changing fan settings and ditching the passive radiator idea. Not worth that mess... I'd rather clean up dust.

Thanks for all of the info! The loop is back together with new tube and bleached parts / scrubbed parts. Running a cycle through a couple of jugs of distilled to make sure the bleach is out, closing the loop, and setting the pH and chemicals. (Trying Mayhems biocide extreme this time around.)

[ZeroOne]

Ok.... 56K warning... or whatever we used to say...

Here are some photos for anyone that was interested in the tear-down and rebuild. Nothing amazing, but shows the beginning of a dirty loop and the post-cleanup.


Cleaning was done with alarming amounts of bleach, as well as vinegar, baking soda (separately), and lots of flushing with distilled.

Radiator: bleached with 25% mix, rinsed, vinegar to remove any crap (was a used radiator from previous build and may have had some gunk in it), distilled + baking soda shake

Res: 50% bleach for 10 minutes.... then baking soda and tap, with tons of shaking to sand the inside clean. rinsed again with 25% bleach, then distilled and baking soda again. rinsed with distilled. scrubbed with q-tips. more distilled.

Flow-meter: disassembled, bleached with 25% for 10 minutes, scrubbed with q-tips, rinsed with distilled

CPU block: (worst part) white delrin, bleached 50%, scrubbed with toothbrush, repeat, 5 times (persistent staining). copper, soaked (top/pin-side only) with bleach, then vinegar, then bleach, toothbrushed. used dropper to fill without spilling over

Fittings: removed all o-rings. bitspower angle fittings, soaked in 10% bleach for 10min, removed and toothbrushed. same for barbs except 50% bleach. rinsed all in distilled + baking soda thoroughly, then straight distilled. after drying, scrubbed each with alcohol and a q-tip.

Tube: trash

I think it all came pretty clean... ran the loop open to a jug of distilled. Used 3 separate jugs of brand new distilled to do heavy flushing because of the bleach. Clear now, no bubbles. Tested pH and used Mayhems Biocide Extreme. We'll see if this worked.


Tear down....



























































Clean......

[musicfan]

Nice job and special thanks for taking and posting all the photos while you did all that work. The reservoir in the last shot looks new! Good luck on the re-built loop.

[Conumdrum]

Agreed! You did good to increase our knowlwdge and all the new folks. I'm keeping this thread for future hel for some, maybe me, never know.

Keep us updated in 6 months or so..

BTW, I just topped off my sytem. I boiled water and poured in to my fill thingy, dumped it and the poured distilled into the fill thingy, and then added to my loop.

[muskel]

I have used pure distiller with 10% ethanol and a silver coil in my last two loops. No growth whatsoever. The only thing that stains is the plasticizer.

[MegadetHCl]

Great thread, it's good to see how well can bleach clean the acrylics.

I've used sodium azide (NaN3) 0.1% (w/v) and deionized water in my loops for several years. Sodium azide kills everything quite efficiently, I just handle all the liquids coming out of my computer as biohazard waste while wearing gloves.