I'd like to share some thoughts on what happenned Friday in Newtown,Conneticut

[Movieman]

I like most of you were first shocked and then the tears came at this brutal and insane act.
I can get my head around anger and hate but I can't comprehend the mindset that would kill children.
We live in a world where some people for whatever reason just can't or won't deal with their problems and
go out and kill innocents to vent their anger.
Ok, thats a given in life, it just is and what to do about it.
We can't go and stand guard over our children but those children must be protected and safe while at school.
Tonight I mailed to the White House and to Governor Malloy in CT the message that the time has come that our schools be protected with metal detectors
and trained policemen who are there to scan any adult trying to enter the school.
Yes, it costs money which a lot of cities and towns do not have but what price do we put on our children?
What I would ask of you folks is to think on this and if you agree contact your local,state and national legislators and push for this.
We protect our children in our homes but we need society at large to protect them while they are at school.
Thanks for reading.

[BenchZowner]

While that's not a bad idea, I think the best of ideas would be to treat each other nicely instead of being jacka$$es.
90% of these cases come from a "traumatized" person, bullying, being cheated, mistreated, etc etc.

The root of the problem is the society, our society, and sadly, it sucks.

[Movieman]

While that's not a bad idea, I think the best of ideas would be to treat each other nicely instead of being jacka$$es.
90% of these cases come from a "traumatized" person, bullying, being cheated, mistreated, etc etc.

The root of the problem is the society, our society, and sadly, it sucks.

You are absolutely 1000000% correct and if I could figure out a way to ensure that every one would do just as you said we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I'm looking at this as strictly "Child safety" and thats all I'm looking at.
I won't get into the pro or anti gun debate as to be blunt it is all words. Your either for or against and the discussions are meaningless.
On the other hand our kids safety at school can be addressed so what happenned Friday in Newtown,CT doesn't ever happen again.
It is their safety while at school while out of "our" protection that is the topic that matters.
All the rest accomplishes nothing and to be honest is just BS politics.

[slaveondope]

You are aware that the man was mentally ill MM?
I have to agree with BenchZoner completely to.
Please don't help turn our public schools into prisons.
Worse has been done almost 100 years ago even in tight communities have had worse mass murders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Still the up most respect towards your very kind heart MM.

[Movieman]

You are aware that the man was mentally ill MM?
I have to agree with BenchZoner completely to.
Please don't help turn our public schools into prisons.
Worse has been done almost 100 years ago even in tight communities have had worse mass murders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Still the up most respect towards your very kind heart MM.

Yes, I'm aware that he was mentally ill and honestly, he could be nothing else to do an act like this unless you want to add in the terrorists that did the same to a school in Belgium many years back.
The point is "he" and his condition doesn't matter, the kids safety is all that matters.
To ensure their safety I'm not suggesting the school be turned into a prison in any way.
Just the opposite, to ensure that the kids in these schools are free from worry of something like this happenning to them.

[slaveondope]

Yes, I'm aware that he was mentally ill and honestly, he could be nothing else to do an act like this unless you want to add in the terrorists that did the same to a school in Belgium many years back.
The point is "he" and his condition doesn't matter, the kids safety is all that matters.
To ensure their safety I'm not suggesting the school be turned into a prison in any way.
Just the opposite, to ensure that the kids in these schools are free from worry of something like this happenning to them.

I understand your logic and care for child protection but you have to realize acts of violence will occur no matter how many provisions are made. Not the greatest example but look at our prison system in such controlled environments it still happens and yes with the most violent of our society hence poor example but this act committed yesterday is far more violent in terms of victims and justification than any one occurrence in prison to my knowledge. Now I come full circle justifying your promotion of more security at schools. So if we enact all these security provisions at schools every where what are we going to do to insure more make it past the metal detector, body scans, and pat down searches?

Again with the up most respect and to keep a civil conversation amongst some of the brightest individuals on the web. Nothing political about it just looking for conversation on how to better all of us.

[Movieman]

I understand your logic and care for child protection but you have to realize acts of violence will occur no matter how many provisions are made. Not the greatest example but look at our prison system in such controlled environments it still happens and yes with the most violent of our society hence poor example but this act committed yesterday is far more violent in terms of victims and justification than any one occurrence in prison to my knowledge. Now I come full circle justifying your promotion of more security at schools. So if we enact all these security provisions at schools every where what are we going to do to insure more make it past the metal detector, body scans, and pat down searches?

Again with the up most respect and to keep a civil conversation amongst some of the brightest individuals on the web. Nothing political about it just looking for conversation on how to better all of us.

Again my intent is the childrens safety, nothing more. They are unable to defend themselves so we as a society have to take on this responsibility.
Entering a school unlike air travel is something the same group does for a minimum of a calendar year and it would be very easy to get photo ID's for the parents as well as the children.
The cops are there not to police the children but to protect the entrances.

[slaveondope]

Again my intent is the childrens safety, nothing more. They are unable to defend themselves so we as a society have to take on this responsibility.
Entering a school unlike air travel is something the same group does for a minimum of a calendar year and it would be very easy to get photo ID's for the parents as well as the children.
The cops are there not to police the children but to protect the entrances.

If only it would be kept to what you proposed I could agree. The response time to the school was saddening and thus I agree an individual capable of handle such situations near by children would have helped immensely.
I appreciate your responses MM and hope to see further open and civil discussion in this thread so we can all think of how to help prevent such tragedies.
My thought's are with those lost, families and friends.

[CrazyNutz]

Perhaps tighter regulations on firearms. Most importantly a requirement to have a psychiatric evaluation before purchasing firearms.

[slaveondope]

Perhaps tighter regulations on firearms. Most importantly a requirement to have a psychiatric evaluation before purchasing firearms.

My understanding is he acquired the guns illegally.

EDIT: I'm for legal gun ownership.

[TSXmike]

My understanding is he acquired the guns illegally.

EDIT: I'm for legal gun ownership.

from the sound of things, the guns came from his mother... whom he also killed.

[Judaeus Apella]

While that's not a bad idea, I think the best of ideas would be to treat each other nicely instead of being jacka$$es.
90% of these cases come from a "traumatized" person, bullying, being cheated, mistreated, etc etc.

The root of the problem is the society, our society, and sadly, it sucks.

I totally agree with you. Most of the problems people have these days wouldn't even exist or considered to be problems, if most of the people in the world didn't act like thoughtless a$$holess, and jeer and hate on each other, usually preying on the kind, humble, and sensitive like jackals. I my self was ruthlessly tormented from kindergarten to college. In kindergarten a bully twice my size and 4 years older picked me up by my feet and threw me into the cement, there's still pieces lodged in my lip. In 4th grade, nearly the entire class of my homeroom signed a valentines day card that said "WE HATE YOU AND HOPE YOU DIE!!!!!". All through high school, hot girls and cheerleaders would spread rumors they liked me then the entire school would laugh at me when I tried to talk to them and they'd brag around me that the bullies who were harassing me every moment and making my life miserable were f***ing them and that I'd never have them. Even in college people would put gum on my car and make up false complaints to the school that I threatened them with a gun (that person was expelled). These things are only a tiny tiny fraction of the abuse I was put through. I've been beat to hell, attacked, followed, threatened, had my stuff destroyed, played incredibly cruel tricks on by hot girls, and my home attacked by bullies.

To this day, I have horrible horrible social anxiety. When someone is angry at me or otherwise annoyed with me, my skin literally feels like its on fire like I'm being burned alive, I get dizzy, I can't think, and get very confused, sometimes nauseous. A few times I've nearly passed out. My social skills never developed because I've always been shunned by society, so I always say the wrong thing, make bad first impressions, and I'm constantly targeted by people who don't understand, because they'd rather hate on me than make any effort to understand another person.

I was a sweet lovable, sensitive kid, when I was little. Now I'm resentful, angry, and jaded, and have every right to be. But unlike the nut cases you read about, I used my experiences to becomes a better person. To understand pain and suffering. Seeing someone hurt or suffering deeply effects me, and I could never hurt another person unless I was forced to, to protect my family. When I was in grade school, I stopped a bully who tried to attack me by hugging him and refused to let go until he calmed down and agreed to stop.

My point is, people need to change. Society needs to set higher standards and force people to evolve and change, and become better people. Also, our policies on mental health in this country need to change. Even if someone is mentally unstable, if this country had better policies and took better care of the mentally sick, they would get the attention, treatment, and understanding they need, instead of being allowed to roam around freely in society unchecked buying firearms.

[bluestang]

Maybe if people could actually afford to go to the hospital and get treated that would help as well! Speaking from personal experience, it is very hard to get someone help let alone be able to afford it. This country is a$$ backwards when it comes to helping people with mental disorders.

[retro77]

What happened in CT yesterday was mind boggling. I couldn't imagine someone that grew up with a parent as a teacher that would use a gun on innocent kids. Just insane. But I'll take action. I'd rather them spend several million of my tax dollars on metal detectors at schools rather than projects like this which are only to undermine our fourth amendment constitutional rights of not being searched without just cause. These projects that our US Government are undertaking so that they can save every shred of data that comes into and out of the US as well as any data that is passed over the Internet within the US. They don't even use the data until you come under their scrutiny, then they go searching their massive amount of data and rebuild your entire Internet life.

I'd rather our Government invest in projects to protect the citizens rather than destroy our Constitution.

edit: oh and please don't fly Delta....EVER

[CrazyNutz]

My understanding is he acquired the guns illegally.

EDIT: I'm for legal gun ownership.

Me too, however one big problem is people fail to keep their guns secured in a gun safe. I really think this should be mandatory.
Problem is they fall in the wrong hands. Many times criminals obtains firearms while robbing peoples houses.

Sad thing is I know people that have 100's of guns, and assault weapons with all the ammo you could carry, all unsecured just
waiting for a criminal to break in while they are at work. Totally irresponsible behavior IMO, unfortunately it would take a law to
make them responsible.

[demonkevy666]

While that's not a bad idea, I think the best of ideas would be to treat each other nicely instead of being jacka$$es.
90% of these cases come from a "traumatized" person, bullying, being cheated, mistreated, etc etc.

The root of the problem is the society, our society, and sadly, it sucks.

it is very easy to mistreat someone, and not even realize you've done so at the time.

In fact many people just be nice falsely and have no real initiative of being your friend. They're only doing it to make the self's look good to others. It's become so shady lately it's hard to find "real friends"

bullying gotten so bad we've reinvented new words for it "trolling" that is bullying just to anger and push people to their wits ends

[slaveondope]

Me too, however one big problem is people fail to keep their guns secured in a gun safe. I really think this should be mandatory.
Problem is they fall in the wrong hands. Many times criminals obtains firearms while robbing peoples houses.

Sad thing is I know people that have 100's of guns, and assault weapons with all the ammo you could carry, all unsecured just
waiting for a criminal to break in while they are at work. Totally irresponsible behavior IMO, unfortunately it would take a law to
make them responsible.

I can agree with you 100% as someone who is not allowed legal gun ownership I can obtain one within 24 hours easy. I do not care to have one however regardless of legal reasons.
The theft of acquaintances I know with gun's associated with the military is in the 80% range. Not because of my association. Remember I've been corrected, like that means anything to most

[K404]

Sadly, I don't think metal detectors and a security guard will help. The guard just becomes the first victim. If someone wants to hurt, maim, kill... they will find a way.

Defeatist? I don't know. Maybe a little. The idea is noble, but will not stop every possible attack.


My sympathies and thoughts with the families & friends of those hurt, lost and affected, as well as the community.

I hope the psychologists and counsellors involved tread the right path and no not make the survivors worse. Some of them stand a real chance of being too young to be seriously affected, if the seriousness of the event is not drummed into them repeatedly. That's a tangent though

[Johnmark]

Maybe if people could actually afford to go to the hospital and get treated that would help as well! Speaking from personal experience, it is very hard to get someone help let alone be able to afford it. This country is a$$ backwards when it comes to helping people with mental disorders.

I think you've hit the nail on the head bluestang!
IMHO this is a social issue period. We can't possibly protect everyone from everything. We could build walls around the school and the sick person is going to go to the park or .... to fulfill there desires.
We need to get these people help, that's the only way to stop these events.

[kjeldoran]

It is very sad about what happened in CT. In fact, I can't even fathom what was going through everyone's minds.

However, I don't think extra security will fix these problems as a school (to me at least) feels like a trap. A lot of schools lock down during the day and protocols tell kids to hide and lock their classroom doors during intruder drills. To me, this makes everyone easy targets, expecially to IEDs. Determined criminals will always circumvent security.

Personally, I feel we will have to accept these shooting incidents. Mass killings are not the majority of killings in the USA. I believe this is the 3rd one this year. While having 0 is better, it will happen every now and then.

Before people get angry at me, I am working on becoming a high school teacher. I would definitely try to protect my kids even if I became injured or killed.

[BeepBeep2]

Metal detectors? Police officers?
Well, I guess the kits can't bring pencil sharpeners to school anymore.
Anyone could take the blade out of a pencil sharpener and kill someone with it.

At my school building, we only have visitors buzz in over an intercom, with a camera directly on them. All school doors are locked at all times from school beginning to end. Cameras are throughout all hallways too, both directions. Because of the killings at Chardon High School in February, many school districts in Northeast Ohio (I live 60 minutes from Chardon) have now abandoned traditional lockdown procedures (ie, lock the door and hide under a desk, in the closet, in the corner, etc.) for a much better system. Of course, we're all pushing for this to be used.

The new system is called "ALICE". http://www.responseoptions.com/pages/home.asp

Essentially, as soon as an intruder is recognized in the building, the building principal or any adult in the main office area is to report over the intercom ASAP a description of the intruder, and where he is and where he may be heading. Another adult if possible will make his/her way to the security room, where all cameras are displayed and give real time updates over intercom from there. That way, for larger buildings such as a middle or high school, students and/or teachers can decide to evacuate in a timely fashion with minimal risk or to do a more traditional "lockdown".

In case a classroom decides it is unable to evacuate safely, they will lock the door and prepare for an intruder entrance. Students are instructed to grab a rigid object they could possibly throw at the intruder as attack, such as a text book, computer monitor, etc. ... in case he were to enter the classroom and swarm him to disable him. Students are taught what points of the body to go for, especially the head, since if you can gain control of their head, they will generally have a harder time making decisions or carrying out their plan. Students/teachers in groups of at least 4-5 people are to gain control of all main body parts, head, arms, legs.

The firearm(s) or melee weapon(s) that the intruder may have, after the intruder is controlled, are to be put into the nearest trash can and moved safely away from the intruder and/or held by a student (the TRASH CAN, not the FIREARM). The local police and fire department know that if a student is seen with the trash can, the intruder should be under control.

This is currently being taught to children K-12 in my local district, so as young as age 5. We've already run two drills at my high school in Barberton, OH after finalizing plans since September.

[slaveondope]

Read BeepBeep2's post over and over again, I'm out of likes.

[BeepBeep2]

Read BeepBeep2's post over and over again, I'm out of likes.

Thanks. A system as Movieman suggested (sorry Dave) simply is not practical.

It would take hours for the kids to be screened every morning, plus the adults, and potentially cost hundreds of thousands or millions a year (billions for this country's government which is still digging a debt hole) in extra expenses.

I believe we are forgetting here that sometimes the criminal is not a random adult, but a student, such as TJ Lane was at Chardon in February. Another student was found this week in North Carolina to have a loaded gun in his locker, he was a 3rd grader, ~8 years old?...

To think you'd screen the 1,300 kids every time they enter my high school from all 5 main entrance points or just the one main entrance (would be a huge line every morning) with a metal detector and a pat down/bookbag check would be ridiculous...same goes to every average joe that just wants to take his son or daughter to the doctor, etc.

EDIT:
I also feel that Movieman's solution is a bit of a violation in our privacy and personal liberty, why isn't the same happening at the mall, the park, etc. etc.? Why do you start and where do you stop? Government that extreme limits our freedom, it's already bad enough the screening that has to happen for airplane travel which is extremely unfortunate.

[Judaeus Apella]

Me too, however one big problem is people fail to keep their guns secured in a gun safe. I really think this should be mandatory.
Problem is they fall in the wrong hands. Many times criminals obtains firearms while robbing peoples houses.

Sad thing is I know people that have 100's of guns, and assault weapons with all the ammo you could carry, all unsecured just
waiting for a criminal to break in while they are at work. Totally irresponsible behavior IMO, unfortunately it would take a law to
make them responsible.

Oh I definitely agree with this. And if an owner can't lock up those guns, the police department or some other place should lock them up for them, and that person should have to check them out and back in in order to use them and pay a tax for the service. The inconvenience would reduce the amount of guns people buy, lowering circulation, lowering theft, and make our communities safer as a result.

I don't think the problem is guns them selves. If that guy couldn't get a gun, he would have used a kitchen knife, crossbow, sharpened stick, rock, baseball bat, or any number of other non firearm related weapons. A gun is nothing more than a tool, like a car, a knife, or a pencil. You don't blame the pencil because someone used it to plan a murder, or blame a car for running someone over intentionally, or a knife for stabbing someone. A tool only serves as an extension of the individual using it, and that individual use does not determine the single collective purpose of all other tools of the same type (to murder).

Case in point, the same day this horrible tragedy happened, a villager slashed 22 children in China at an elementary school. http://now.msn.com/china-school-knif...es-22-children

It wouldn't matter if you melted down everything in this country that is designed and sold as an object intended to use as a weapon either at a distance or close up, someone would still find a way... even if they had to make a shiv out of a toothbrush.

I'd also like to comment that the US has horrible backward policies on what chemicals are safe for public consumption and use, and we have no idea how all these chemicals are effecting our unborn children, how they effect people taking prescription drugs (especially mood stabilizers and anti-psychotic drugs), and what happens when they all these different chemicals mix together in our systems.

[kjeldoran]

Beepbeep,

That is a good system they are moving towards. That is what we are somewhat taught on our university's campus. The old system is a death trap.

I'm not fully up to speed on what we are doing in Saint Louis since I am not fully involved with school districts. I was just going on my prior knowledge.